164 replies to this topic

[operatorZ]

I endorse the OP's post and thought process as sound and just. There are plenty of good ideas that have been floated to help with this problem...PGI just needs to implement them.

IB4 L2P...

[C E Dwyer]

its not the stomps its not the losing, its not the lack of Viop or a 'proper lobby' its how badly designed CW is causing it to be so numbingly dull after only a few weeks with no worth while reason to drop in it

The maps are terrible the only real varition being the number of doors and the colours, the way to win is meh.

PGI have to give me a reason to want to take part in it, this isn't going to be mechbays and titles and 'stuff'

Whats going to be me back playing is house Camo schemes and unit decals, give out as rewards for reaching targets

sorry but a few million C-bills a 'rank' and some GXP just doesn't cut it, just not worth the wait times

Respawn sucks it just encourages bad play and rushes.

a single mech no doors no turrets a flag to cap ala Assault would have been so much better.

Edited by Cathy, 22 January 2015 - 03:31 PM.

[Mystere]

Dawnstealer, on 22 January 2015 - 11:42 AM, said:

They need to dump the idea of having only the last matches before the window closes count. It's a bad idea. Just have it be an overall percentage of victories and defeats. You fight and win 51% of the battles for a planet, you win it. If that's two battles out of three, or 1,501 out of 3,000, that's it: straight percentage.

I disagree. I prefer the "territory" concept over straight win percentage. PGI just has to make it less abstract than it is right now (i.e. conquest for each territory/planet should be represented by a directed graph of attacks, counterattacks, beachheads, skirmishes, and other game modes).

Dawnstealer, on 22 January 2015 - 11:42 AM, said:

When it's based on this weird cease-fire thing, why would I fight any other time but right before the window closes? Those drops don't count, so why should I bother?

Just let planets flip at 100% and have them available for retaking immediately.

[Ax2Grind]

Mystere, on 22 January 2015 - 03:30 PM, said:

I disagree. I prefer the "territory" concept over straight win percentage. PGI just has to make it less abstract than it is right now (i.e. conquest for each territory/planet should be represented by a directed graph of attacks, counterattacks, beachheads, skirmishes, and other game modes).




Just let planets flip at 100% and have them available for retaking immediately.

I like.

[Kiiyor]

Well, CW is still a beta.

I approached it as if it were a mere skeleton, designed to be fleshed out by some intrepid designer at a later date.

Everyone is complaining that it's dying, but really, it isn't even alive yet. It's a twisted yet brilliant unfinished stitching of human bodyparts strapped to a table, waiting for a decent lightning strike to infuse life into it, so it can go on a rampage through local villages and provoke a pitchfork wielding mob after Willy Wonka announces it's birth.

It's a light brunch at the moment, not really a satisfying meal, but still a little more than an appetizer.

It's ice cream, but without the ice magic and entire packet of crushed tim tams.

It's the warm Pepsi of game modes, with ice in it, yet the ice hasn't cooled the Pepsi yet to a point where you are satisfied with the Pepsi, yet you're thirsty and drink the Pepsi anyway because you're too impatient to wait for the ice to cool the Pepsi properly, and when you're done you complain that the Pepsi wasn't cold. Stupid Pepsi.

I daresay the devs have more than enough feedback and telemetry so far for improvements, and all the whispered talk and hints in townhalls and whatnot seem to hint at decent things to come. I'm patient, and the pub queue still holds my interest.

[oldradagast]

Zamiake, on 22 January 2015 - 12:21 PM, said:

I agree with tis post 100% the only reason i play CW is for high cbill gains. But honestly half the time it isnt even worth it cause 12 mans curb stomp pugs 100% of the time and then you just get nothing at all and its the biggest waste of item in the game.

A reward system would help alot. also ive suggested pug intergration a few days ago

Agreed, but don't waste your breath.

The try-hards have made it painfully clear that CW is only for people with "real skill" - but will cry up a storm if you take away their free wins, handed out like candy, over hapless PUG's. They blather on about how this is "war" and "anything goes" - provided, of course, "anything" doesn't threaten their fun rolling PUG's.

On the flipside, you have a dedicated band of masochists, led by a few well known troublemakers, who believe that because they like being curb-stomped because "it's a real challenge," everybody else should be forced to play the same way they do and enjoy being stomped.

These two groups feed on each other in codependent-enabling way. The try-hards shriek about "skill" while cowering on defense on Boreal in Clan mechs, shooting down masochists who keep walking into the buzzsaws over and over again, convinced that because they don't mind losing, everyone else must enjoy it.

The reality, of course is that everyone else has simply left CW, leaving behind nothing but abuser and abusee of the system.

I proposed OPTIONAL match-making as a way to handle this and integrate PUG's and casual players. Turn the option on, and you only get paired against comparable foes. Turn it off, and you get anyone else who's turned it off. This simple system would vastly reduce the endless and pointless one-sided battles that have turned this already shallow game mode into an utter joke... but the forum thugs and trolls will have none of it.

So, they can enjoy their empty queues, and can spend the rest of CW choking each other for all I care.

Edited by oldradagast, 22 January 2015 - 06:47 PM.

[Davers]

oldradagast, on 22 January 2015 - 06:45 PM, said:

Agreed, but don't waste your breath.

The try-hards have made it painfully clear that CW is only for people with "real skill" - but will cry up a storm if you take away their free wins, handed out like candy, over hapless PUG's. They blather on about how this is "war" and "anything goes" - provided, of course, "anything" doesn't threaten their fun rolling PUG's.

On the flipside, you have a dedicated band of masochists, led by a few well known troublemakers, who believe that because they like being curb-stomped because "it's a real challenge," everybody else should be forced to play the same way they do and enjoy being stomped.

These two groups feed on each other in codependent-enabling way. The try-hards shriek about "skill" while cowering on defense on Boreal in Clan mechs, shooting down masochists who keep walking into the buzzsaws over and over again, convinced that because they don't mind losing, everyone else must enjoy it.

The reality, of course is that everyone else has simply left CW, leaving behind nothing but abuser and abusee of the system.

I proposed OPTIONAL match-making as a way to handle this and integrate PUG's and casual players. Turn the option on, and you only get paired against comparable foes. Turn it off, and you get anyone else who's turned it off. This simple system would vastly reduce the endless and pointless one-sided battles that have turned this already shallow game mode into an utter joke... but the forum thugs and trolls will have none of it.

So, they can enjoy their empty queues, and can spend the rest of CW choking each other for all I care.

You must have this set to a macro or something by now.

[ZenFool]

Yes, insult the person telling you the truth.

[Tasker]

*queues up for CW with 600 ping* *refuses to follow instructions from 10 man unit to defend against 12 man invading force* *comes on forum to complain about how CW is bad*

[Mystere]

ZenFool, on 22 January 2015 - 10:12 PM, said:

Yes, insult the person telling you the truth.

But is he really telling the truth, or merely passing off opinion as truth?

Edited by Mystere, 22 January 2015 - 10:19 PM.

[Ax2Grind]

ZenFool, on 22 January 2015 - 10:12 PM, said:

Yes, insult the person telling you the truth.

Apparently anyone who disagrees with him is a forum thug and a troll...truth...right.

And 12 man units "cower" on Boreal defense? Do we need to link one of the many threads complaining about 12 mans leaping the walls?

The only thing Radagast does well is...what was the word he accused "try-hards" of..ah yes..."blather".

He also seems intent on insulting and demeaning the folks who want to enjoy playing the game...some pretty warped truth right there....

If only he stopped being so salty...I like his idea about being able to flag yourself for MM...seems interesting even if it might not be viable with the current population...but truth? I really don't think truth comes wrapped in salty tears and insults for anyone who might have a differing opinion.

Next!

[Zfailboat]

I will go back to playing CW when it doesn't take a giant dump on my FPS.

Plain and simple. if it is not dead by the time Beta is over, and if it is actually playable by the time Beta is over, I will be there.

[Mystere]

Ax2Grind, on 22 January 2015 - 10:37 PM, said:

I like his idea about being able to flag yourself for MM...seems interesting even if it might not be viable with the current population...

The only time his optional MM idea is worthy of consideration is if we have a game mode named "Patrol Duty", where players -- obviously -- patrol a world watching out for raiders. We can then have have "pirates" in CW that are allowed to "raid" such planets. In said game mode, you do not know how many are patrolling with you beforehand, and you also do not know how many are raiding until they arrive, if any. Raiders come in to destroy a structure. The patrolling player's job is to prevent that from happening.

Anyone who turns on the MM flag gets sent on patrol duty. Also, no planets change hands.

How's that for two new but complimentary game modes?

Edited by Mystere, 22 January 2015 - 11:03 PM.

[Ens]

CW is just not very appealing right now.
- Just two maps
- Of which just one is real fun ( to me at least, Boreal Vault is boring ...only one attack corridor )
- The current CW meta is plain BS... Thunderbolts, Stormcrows and Timber Wolves T_T and a few leftovers. And in April CW will be flooded with Urbanmechs


But it was incredible fun in the first few weeks!
Waiting for more diversity. Going back to normal mode until then

[AssaultPig]

CW just isn't fun

as with many other un-fun things, it's possible for it to occasionally be enjoyable in the right circumstances. You occasionally get a good 10-12v10-12 game that's close and those can be pretty neat. But the vast majority of games are non-competitive stomps, especially when dropping with less than 10-12 organized people. I've been on both sides of that and it isn't fun for either.

given how the matchmaking works that would probably be true regardless, but it's exacerbated by the maps and the rule set.

I don't like to bag on PGI too much because I think they've done a reasonably good job lately, but CW isn't fun and given what we've seen so far I don't really see how they can make it fun

[bobF]

Quote

- The current CW meta is plain BS... Thunderbolts, Stormcrows and Timber Wolves T_T and a few leftovers. And in April CW will be flooded with Urbanmechs

Dont forget the speed-tweaked armed-better-than medium mech IS lights.

I dunno whether to be highly annoyed at the pure cheddar or giddy with excitement because I know I'll be fighting a unit that knows what the **** is up. Props to BWC, twice I've faced you guys up on the Clan front, and you lend real action to the scene. Get off that House Zerg border ffs.

Anyway, contrary to the perma-butthurt rant of radagast up there, the vast majority of 10-12 mans I've met in battle have at least been civil, offering a gg, or simply saying nothing at all (you know, when you can't say anything nice). You guys have to realize this is like pro wrestling, or like the two American political parties. It's forum PvP, for the thrilling drama and the lulz. The super majority of trolling in my experience happens in the general solo q, or between pugs in CW (which is pretty rare these days).

I know lots of casuals prefer the maps, game modes, etc from the general queue, which is why I strongly advocate for it being integrated into CW. PGI has another map coming soon (actually soon!!! not just soon™) and we know they're working on the invasion version of all the maps. So variety is coming, new tactics, all that good stuff. I just feel that CW needs to include the casual gamer, so the map and these forums become vibrant with activity. You players that prefer to pug and just fight in the general queue, I understand some of you prefer your quiet moment of destructive zen. Just kickin back, playin video games. But consider if your efforts had an overall point, that your play contributed to a greater objective, that there were actual stakes. The feeling is similar to betting on professional sports.

I like the ideas here regarding how planets flip, and especially slowing down the captures. If I was in Clan Wolf during Op New Year's Hangover, it would be depressing seeing world after world being lost, every day. That kind of thing has real psychological effect, and people think "why bother with this **** game mode." If worlds took a couple days to flip, and there was a mix of game modes (I think Mystere suggested this above) that served as the various objectives to secure the planet, that would be badass imo. Suddenly, cookie-cutter tactics become a liability.

I hope for the best and attempt patience.

Edit: regarding assault pig's response above, I agree, but that isn't about CW being bad, it's about total lack of diversity in the playerbase. Those battles happen exactly like that because that's exactly who's playing CW right now. Including the majority of MWO players into CW by way of integrating the general queue introduces those who may be more interested in upping their game to play in the big leagues. Eventually, you get a variety of players with diverse levels of skill. It's just like the ELO woes that currently exist in the general queue. We simply need more playing.

Edited by bobF, 23 January 2015 - 12:39 AM.

[Mordin Ashe]

I mostly drop solo and enjoy CW very much. Money, LPs, MCs, other stuff - there is a lot to be had there. Yep, more players would help, but yesterday I saw first CW matches starting at 16:00 CET which is very uncommon, usually I would have to wait for 2 more hours for some action. Things aren't that bad as some may present them. Yes, we only have two maps, but more is to come very soon so I am not worried.

[MischiefSC]

While as a given rule I disagree with bobF on principle, the OP is pretty rock solid.

I don't have an issue with 12mans doing well and shifting borders. Someone is going to win - that win generally goes to whoever wants it and tries hardest. Being a comp 12man team is a bit more complex than just showing up and winning. They put a lot of time, effort, energy, practice and coordination. That match you lost was lost a couple of days prior when they worked out, implemented and practiced the tactic that rolled you. That's why it feels like you never had a chance - they worked out beating you long before you queued. To mistake that for a lack of effort is to totally miss exactly what makes the top tier comp teams top tier comp teams.

Having pugged a whole ton I can say that most those pug teams lost because they were terrible. I don't just mean 'not top-tier comp team caliber', I mean terrible. They wandered off alone, they ignored the team strategy, they just flat out played bad. I'm not in favor of balancing mechanics that are supposed to account for that other than, well, keeping them away from everyone else. People who are unwilling/unable to work with their team to win are not going to be missed. Matches are better without them, even if you wait longer.

Yet a means of helping people for whom the problem is a skill issue and not a will issue I'm all for. Invasion game mode in pug/group queue is ideal; especially if you make it very easy for someone there to shift into pugging in CW.

Recognizing that bigger teams or at least groups of people who work hard to play together and work as a team are going to win more than people who want to derp and go solo or just farm kills or who think taking 4 LRM boats or 4 snipers and hanging out in the back the whole match is a good idea isn't hating on pugs - it's not elitism. That's just saying that the minimum performance bar is a bit higher than derping in pug queue. I suspect some people complain so much about groups stomping pugs because they are one of the ones pretty much ensuring their team gets stomped. I've been with pug teams that beat organized teams many, many times. Some of them were literal attrition wins. We won because we played together. I've had it happen to me when on a large team.

So the question becomes how do you help pugs and casuals pick up the skills they need to function in a CW team effectively, or at least moderately.

[Joseph Mallan]

What is really hurting CW is a lack of scenarios. Its been what 2-3 weeks now. One scenario, 2 near identical maps. How long is that supposed to keep players enthralled?

Get a few new maps, a change of operation and watch CW light up. Til boredom sets back in.

[oldradagast]

It doesn't take a macro to repeat the truth when it is glaring obvious.

You want to know why I'm salty about it? Because I am tired of being shouted down, spat upon, and trolled by brats who will do anything - including wrecking the game itself - so long as CW stays exactly as *they* want it, with zero consideration of any other options for anyone else. A hardline philosophy of "play CW my way or get wrecked, noob!" is not working, and it's putting my fun in danger since PGI is spending limited resources on CW without getting to the root of the problem - 1-sided, fun-free games.

For the people who still refuse to "get" the simple concept of the optional matchmaker. How does adding a "normal" difficulty mode to a game scenario that only has a "hard" difficulty mode ruin your fun? You can still play "hard" mode all day; the only change is that other people now have the option to play the way THEY want to. Is that a problem?

Of course, it would reduce the frequency of PUG rolls - *gasp!* - and then there are the folks who claim "CW doesn't have enough players to split them into 2 difficulty modes." Except that's just plain wrong. The people who would be playing in "normal" mode with the optional matchmaker turned on are NOT PLAYING CW right now. That's the whole point - you're not "splitting" anything because all of those players already left... and that's a huge chunk of the player base that is gone and is not coming back until something more substantial is offered than new maps on which to get rolled.

Edited by oldradagast, 23 January 2015 - 04:23 AM.