64 replies to this topic

[Kelito]

W A R K H A N, on 23 January 2015 - 11:28 PM, said:

Ive noticed players in this game often have some of the worst situation awareness of any game I've played. You can have guys charging around the map in a rotation while the assaults get left and picked off. You have people that just run off solo. People that have no idea what is going on beyond their own field of View. PGI has no magic cure for such nonsense. And on a game as team depends as MWO it doesn't take much to get that steam roller going the wrong way. All it could take is one person not doing well to start that snowball going. B4 u know it you can't recover.

If what you say is true then there should be no 12-0 games right, because logically everyone is doing the same thing and the matches should be even????

[Kelito]

Mister D, on 24 January 2015 - 08:11 PM, said:

8/10 times those 12-0 games are because 1 team got 3-4 ECM mechs, and the other team got 0.
The other 2/10 times, you just simply got outplayed.

Might I also add that the other team on the 12 of the 12-0 also has all of the lrms.

[IraqiWalker]

Kelito, on 28 January 2015 - 09:04 PM, said:

If what you say is true then there should be no 12-0 games right, because logically everyone is doing the same thing and the matches should be even????

Just because everyone is bad, doesn't mean they are the same degree of bad. As long as you win the "my teammates aren't the worst" lottery, you win. At least that's true for 2/3rds of the elo buckets.

Kelito, on 28 January 2015 - 09:08 PM, said:

Might I also add that the other team on the 12 of the 12-0 also has all of the lrms.

There literally only 2 maps where LRMs are very effective (Caustic, and Alpine), every other map has abundant cover, and you, or your team, should have ECM, or AMS, on top of knowing how to hide behind a rock.

LRMs are not that big of a deal, even when massed. As long as you use cover. The aforementioned two maps have almost no cover to protect you from LRMs, so they are the exception.

[Lily from animove]

W A R K H A N, on 23 January 2015 - 11:28 PM, said:

Ive noticed players in this game often have some of the worst situation awareness of any game I've played. You can have guys charging around the map in a rotation while the assaults get left and picked off. You have people that just run off solo. People that have no idea what is going on beyond their own field of View. PGI has no magic cure for such nonsense. And on a game as team depends as MWO it doesn't take much to get that steam roller going the wrong way. All it could take is one person not doing well to start that snowball going. B4 u know it you can't recover.

some people even do not recognize what is happenign on the edges of their field of view.

[zzoxx]

W A R K H A N, on 23 January 2015 - 11:28 PM, said:

Ive noticed players in this game often have some of the worst situation awareness of any game I've played. You can have guys charging around the map in a rotation while the assaults get left and picked off. You have people that just run off solo. People that have no idea what is going on beyond their own field of View. PGI has no magic cure for such nonsense. And on a game as team depends as MWO it doesn't take much to get that steam roller going the wrong way. All it could take is one person not doing well to start that snowball going. B4 u know it you can't recover.

I totally agree. I had not much games with such results until the last few days. I'm not that experienced yet, but the games always content the same "personal failures":

- players nevermind to press "R" for the LRM's (or simply to check crits)
- Couple Heavys or even Assaults chasing a cocky light to map's borders and leave the team behind
- ECM lights don't cover their teams, instead spread all over the place
- like it's said, no watching the back of the "cluster" or even upcoming flanks
- peek-a-boo at every available bottleneck instead of gather +push / solo push attempts (Terra Therma?)
- no relocation or planful retreat if necessary
- Players afk from beginning to the end of a match (the newest fashion, it occurs to me)

I don't know, when you're in it, you're in it. But these are basics that are not too hard to learn. Just my Noob opinion.
But like it's also said, every some games it may be just beautiful again :-)

Edited by zzoxx, 29 January 2015 - 02:40 AM.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

You guys seriously did not notice that since quirks and lowered already low TTK the amount of death ball stomps increased significantly?

[Nightshade24]

I think the main thing that occurs in a 12 - 0 (in smaller group matches and pugs) that if someone dies very early and fast then the game has a disadvantage (11 verse 12 for eg... also dc's and afk's hurt as well0

For instance you are in a cicada and woops, turned the wrong corner, 2 king crabs, an atlas, and a centurion found you. over 150 damage flying to your face in a split second.

This can happen a second time or 2 at the same time (lets say it was a cicada and a locust that turned the bad corner or some other situation.).

There is many variables that can lead to easy kills, which lead to a disadvantage and a easy win, most of the time though the 12 remaining enemy mechs after winning often have quite a few mechs 1 shot away from death, this is why you see 10 or 11-0's often as well, as say a single few medium lasers TK one guy due to his situation or killed him by contact damage or one of your guys doing a sparta charge to get 1 of the damaged guys before dying.

[LameoveR]

I see so many noskill players since Mercs Challenge start.
It's really awful. Or there is so many, who plays with joystick. i just can't imagine how people can be so innacurate.
I'm spectating almost all games, and there is no explanation, why is it so awful.

Edited by LameoveR, 29 January 2015 - 07:30 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

12-0 one game, 0-12 the next game. 50-50 win/loss ratio. Working as intended^TM.

[Crockdaddy]

PGI has mentioned in the past that the HIGHER ELO matches tend to go one way or the other. You likely in your low ELO got swept up into a match with many HIGH ELO players on each side. You were the balancing mechanic so to speak(or you are a high ELO pilot yourself in which case the side with the best pugs wins!). So in matches with better players it goes like this


Team 1 pushes at the same time in the same direction with a skirmish line and nails tail end charlie assault mechs which were left behind by Team 2 (your team). Now that Team 1 gang banged your 100 ton mechs with lights and long range Derp ... you are down 4 and wondering to yourself WTH. PGI so broken QQ. The team continues the race track ... your 8 man finally catches up with Team 1 ... but Team 1 is now either turning to face you with a skirmish line (Team 1 is both confident and aggressive due to its initial success) and Team 2 is tentative because they know they are screwed and wont push out as a wave front but as single heroes hoping to inspire their team. Oh crap ... the lights just caught up with you again from the flank and LRM derp is raining heck down on you. UGH ... lost 2 more mechs and the rest are melting ... and now your K:D cowards and well plain ole trolls or guys whom just want to do what they can run away and Team 1 is now on search and destroy looking for the powered down Spider 5D.


Not much PGI can do. It just happens. Momentum is a real thing and luck is luck ... but if you work the chat system early you can often head off these wipes or at least make them competitive. Use the map and develop your personal situation awareness or best yet, group up! Team games = more fun when part of a team.

Edited by CrockdaddyAoD, 29 January 2015 - 07:53 AM.

[SgtKinCaiD]

Vanguard319, on 25 January 2015 - 01:30 AM, said:

true, watched the last person on our team tie a match we should have won because he couldn't shoot straight. Bear in mind, he was in a barely scratched Mad Dog, and couldn't kill a Kit Fox that was cherry red and standing still quite a bit, any competent player would have downed that fox in one shot. The idiot even powered down at one point and let the fox have three free shots. (seriously wtf?!?!)

It's one thing when you lose because of bad luck, or because the other team had a better position/strategy, there's no shame in that. It's unforgivable when you lose because people on your team can't be bothered to learn the simple basics.

Replace Mad Dog with :

• slow IS light mech,
  
• LRM Victor,
  
• LRM Commando,
  
• etc. .. ...

Edited by SgtKinCaiD, 29 January 2015 - 07:52 AM.

[Wesxander]

Match maker is screwed up from several perspectives:

1) Ranks players by ELO only, which is worthless, when you consider that ELO requires a consistent team or player to work correctly. Example NFL 12 man part of the team does not change to much via offense or defense. Therefore ranking football teams by ELO works as the team stays mostly the same, even one injury only slightly modifies that. Solo play in say tennis ELO would work. In games where you get a new 12 man team every match just about ELO is worthless. It has some value for novice player but I would wager by 1,500 or so games the player is veteran, and will have learned the game well enough that ELO does not truly represent their skill at that point.

2) ELO does not factor in weight class of mech when deciding. Hey that 85 ton Stalker to ELO is the same as 100 ton Direwolf on the other side. Anyone will tell you the stalker is out matched but ELO doesn't think so. In fact this is what is sometimes causing the 12 and 0 stats games we see a lot. Hey cicada your up btw I (MM) forgot to mention I am putting you against a clan SCR with bap should be good game you and him have the same ELO score btw......

3) ELO does not care about special equipment: ECM. BAP, TAG. I have seen many matches were one side gets literally 3 ecm mechs and 2 BAP mechs while the other side gets none, or if they are lucky one ECM mech to counter the enemies 4 or 5. Hardly balanced.

MM does not appear to balance tonnages either. Clan mech regardless of ELO should be considered at minimum 10 to 25 tons more than they are rated.

Expert pilots with huge win records should have 10 to 15 tons added to their weight range when facing a guy who is only played 100 games to their 3000.

Till MM starts doing these things you will see many one sided PUG games.

[Ironwithin]

Wesxander, on 29 January 2015 - 08:15 AM, said:

stuff

Elo, name, not an acronym.

[IraqiWalker]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 29 January 2015 - 03:07 AM, said:

You guys seriously did not notice that since quirks and lowered already low TTK the amount of death ball stomps increased significantly?

I will say this about TTK:

It's insanely longer than TT. In TT a 1v1 takes about 30 seconds -ish. If it's assaults.

[Thunder Child]

IraqiWalker, on 29 January 2015 - 03:25 PM, said:

I will say this about TTK:

It's insanely longer than TT. In TT a 1v1 takes about 30 seconds -ish. If it's assaults.

Indeed. But in TT, that 30 seconds, or three turns, usually involves an insane amount of luck to get multiple successive hits on one component (or Clan Pulse Lasers with a TC). In MWO, you're getting 30+ pts per mech targeting a single spot (assuming the attackers have good aim, fire discipline, etc). So although mechs can wander around for the full 15min match, TTK for most mechs is under 10 seconds during actual combat. Doing the Funky Chicken to spread damage will only get you so far.

[Platinum Spider]

Wesxander, on 29 January 2015 - 08:15 AM, said:

MM does not appear to balance tonnages either. Clan mech regardless of ELO should be considered at minimum 10 to 25 tons more than they are rated.

Not all clan mechs. The lights and second wave mechs are outclassed by IS.

[Meta 2013]

Adding to what Wesxander Said above, nice post BTW,

First, As long as they base match making on the ELO system, and Allow New players to drop with Senior Players, Match,maker will NEVER be able to actually give Good matches. The chance is always there, but it will be pure dumb luck.

Reason: ELO is a system designed to keep you challenged by trying to drive your win loss ratio to 1. That does NOT work for a team. This is a system for individuals, and was not developed for large teams of players.

ELO does work, if you really look at your win loss record, and how you really play, the Elo system works, for win/ loss, that does not mean it provides good matches, just means it works for driving win/loss record.

New players start at a middle ELO,so you get a total noob in a new mech with out even basics unlocked, or worse one of the idiot trail mech builds that has enough ammo for 9 shots ... MM can easily give you a whole team of those, while putting all veterans on the other side, based solely on they're Elo rankings.

I've asked before...and will again, we need some tags for folks who have reached a certain number of drops ... ie like 1000, 2500, 5000, 10,000, 25,000 ..etc so we can see the experience levels, and know why we probably got roll stomped.

When you sit back and wait 3, 4 minutes for a match, and your in a light mech at 8% then you keep seeing the same folks in all the drops, you realize MM has such a little player base to choose from, its almost impossible to get a good match.

I play 2 different accounts ... one with a win loss ratio just a tad less than 1 to 1, the other account has several hundred wins more than losses, with each, class elo's have been calculated, one account is not remotely close to he other account for light class mech elo's.. yet I see the same players no matter which account I play.

The latter reason is probably 70% of the reason your getting roll stomps, not enough players to choose from. Once ina while you see a match with a few older players on ... for an event, and then suddenly you start getting good matches for awhile.

Lastly,not being able to choose the map you playing on, an blindly picking a mech,that you hope gets the right map match up, can also lead to those roll stomps.

Speaking of that, why are we getting Terra Therma and the bog all day long again, with a few crimsons for good measure, been a week since I've seen alpine.

Edited by Meta 2013, 29 January 2015 - 05:42 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Thunder Child, on 29 January 2015 - 04:45 PM, said:

Indeed. But in TT, that 30 seconds, or three turns, usually involves an insane amount of luck to get multiple successive hits on one component (or Clan Pulse Lasers with a TC). In MWO, you're getting 30+ pts per mech targeting a single spot (assuming the attackers have good aim, fire discipline, etc). So although mechs can wander around for the full 15min match, TTK for most mechs is under 10 seconds during actual combat. Doing the Funky Chicken to spread damage will only get you so far.

There was always the choice to make "called shots". Not aimed shots (Those require TCs). Big penalty, but you can definitely slap multiple shots on the same location.

[ShinVector]

PhoenixFire55, on 29 January 2015 - 07:31 AM, said:

12-0 one game, 0-12 the next game. 50-50 win/loss ratio. Working as intended^TM.

Hey... Phoenix did you notice that we get faster and more balanced game when NA is awake ?
lol...

[PhoenixFire55]

ShinVector, on 29 January 2015 - 10:18 PM, said:

Hey... Phoenix did you notice that we get faster and more balanced game when NA is awake ?
lol...

Actually the opposite for me ... usually getting games much faster during early morning NA times both in solo and group queues. Doesn't make any sense tbh. Can't say any of them are balanced tho. However, closest games yesterday had been during 5am-7am EST period. Again, balanced as in PGI-balanced, i.e. me and one another guy did 1000+ each while 10 other guys from my team combined for 350 or so. 11:12. Carry harder, gglose. When NA woke up been getting 12-0 roflstomps in a group of 4. Got bored real quick.

IraqiWalker, on 29 January 2015 - 03:25 PM, said:

I will say this about TTK:

It's insanely longer than TT. In TT a 1v1 takes about 30 seconds -ish. If it's assaults.

LMAO ... take an Atlas and go 1v1 against an Ultra Crab or an Ultra Whale. I'd love to see you survive for even 15 seconds let alone 30. Thats with double armor and 1.4 heat sinks. But of course keep telling yourself its longer.