Jump to content

Urbie Is Coming. You Cannot Stop Him. But What Should His Quirks Be?

Balance BattleMechs Weapons

125 replies to this topic

#1 Bishop Steiner

    ForumWarrior

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Hammer
  • The Hammer
  • 47,187 posts
  • Locationclimbing Mt Tryhard, one smoldering Meta-Mech corpse at a time

Posted 24 January 2015 - 11:34 AM

We know one feature will be a 360 torso rotation (which for many people will be less of a good idea than they realize. Lol)

And one caveat, the actual "tier" and such won't truly be known until we know it's engine cap, and it in game model scale. Those 2 factors will impact it's potential viability more than anything else.

That said, it never hurts to brainstorm, speculate and hypothesise. And PGI may like some of the ideas.

One premise I still adhere to, is that overall, "Generic" quirks are fine, but any "Specialized" quirks should adhere to the stock weapons and roles the mech is designed for.

So along those lines are a few ideas (not saying all need to be added, just laying out varying ideas, to pick and choose and add to, nothing more)

So we'll start with the easy ones:

1) Ballistic Cooldown 20%, AC10/20/LB-X Cooldown 20%
1a) AC20 Heat Reduction, 35%
2) Energy Heat Reduction 20%, Small LAser Heat Reduction 20%
3) Energy Cooldown, 15%, Small LAser Cooldown 15%

These are pretty much your standard party line "no-brainers". Any ballistics oriented Urbie will probably be forced to run SHS to have enough Critical Spaces. Most cases, Ballistics are not huge heat hogs, but ac2s and 20s are the exception. Also, with even with small lasers, heat can be an issue, as once running hot, SHS require significantly more time to vent.

Next, let's look at it's "Role"

1) Internal Structure Increase by 50%
2) Armor Damage reduction 25% (like the damage reduction the old missile doors gave)
3) JJ fuel recharge twice as fast.
4) Boost Twist rate 25-50%.

Again, I am by no means suggestion staking these, but presenting various options to be considered (though I can almost guarantee some grognard will cry about over stacking quirks to make a joke mech work, and then spend the next week fighting and trolling, tooth and nail. Such is are life on teh intrawebz)

That said, the Urbie was a simple, TOUGH mech. In MWO, with "unlimited armor for everyone", and doubled to boot, that doesn't translate well. But as other mechs have proven, with various IS buffs and the like, one can emulate that well. SO far I am partial to IS buffs as they seem to actually make mechs feel tougher, and lose weapons slower, than the same amount of buff to the armor. Faster JJ recharge allow the Urbie to use cover and it's JJS more effectively, and can also take advantage of hitreg issues with jumping mechs by feathering. If it's good enough for the comps on their FS9s, why not for Urbie the Love Mech?

Outside the Box Ideas: (Don't claim these as my own, but ideas from other forum users. Non "insane ones will be added to the OP as we go)

1) Increase Ammo loads for Urbie by 1.5 to 2 x
2) 20% more waddle.
3) 50% combined ballistic cooldown, 30% combined ballistic velocity boost.
4) 20% higher top speed (as already done, to lesser %, on Summoner)


So far, only one that I have seen that isn't batcrap insane, though I still am not sure how I feel about it. Big thing is with doubled armor, the effectiveness of a BFG and 1-2 tons of ammo is severely curtailed.


SO, that's what I have, as of the moment.

What are your thoughts on the Urbie Quirks, either what mix and match of those posted you would think makes sense, or what you would suggest yourself for quirks?

TL;DR (18 pt style): I am in no way, or at any point saying "Give it all of these". I am putting up a menu of ideas, for people to pick and choose from to make an "ideal" blend.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 24 January 2015 - 11:51 AM.


#2 Alwrathandabout42ninjas

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Formidable
  • The Formidable
  • 1,098 posts

Posted 24 January 2015 - 11:35 AM

Some ac cooldown and + armor/internals will be nice, but I think your getting carried away lol.

#3 Bishop Steiner

    ForumWarrior

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Hammer
  • The Hammer
  • 47,187 posts
  • Locationclimbing Mt Tryhard, one smoldering Meta-Mech corpse at a time

Posted 24 January 2015 - 11:38 AM

View PostAlwrath, on 24 January 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

Some ac cooldown and + armor/internals will be nice, but I think your getting carried away lol.

and you might want to read the OP Alwrath, I actually covered that in it.

I am in no way, or at any point saying "Give it all of these". I am putting up a menu of ideas, for people to pick and choose from to make an "ideal" blend.

But thanks for proving my prediction right, in the very first reply.

#4 FupDup

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 26,888 posts
  • LocationThe Keeper of Memes

Posted 24 January 2015 - 11:38 AM

Instead of damage resistance I think that just adding something like 5+ armor per body part would suffice. In addition to 50% more internals of course.

I'd also like to see SL range boosts on at least one variant, so I can do 4 SL for backup while not feeling disadvantaged for it. WTB +100% Small Laser range. :D


Given that the baseline lights are probably the Jenner and FS9, I think we should assume the Urbs is a T5 mech out of the box and uberquirk it accordingly.


If it's not too much of a pipe dream, increased ballistic ammo might help the mech actually pack in the big dakka it's famous for, otherwise most might just boat energy. :\

Edited by FupDup, 24 January 2015 - 11:39 AM.


#5 Brody319

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Ominous
  • The Ominous
  • 6,273 posts

Posted 24 January 2015 - 11:39 AM

I agree with everything but the JJ recharge. JJs recharge pretty fast already, but to be honest I'm stripping all of them for ammo, or a bigger engine. I imagine most urbies will end up doing this since the ballistics are in the arms, it won't be very accurate for poptarting.

#6 Virgil Greyson

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Urban Commando
  • Urban Commando
  • 277 posts

Posted 24 January 2015 - 11:40 AM

20% more waddle.

#7 Brody319

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Ominous
  • The Ominous
  • 6,273 posts

Posted 24 January 2015 - 11:41 AM

View PostVirgil Greyson, on 24 January 2015 - 11:40 AM, said:

20% more waddle.


give it the king crab walking animation

#8 Bishop Steiner

    ForumWarrior

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Hammer
  • The Hammer
  • 47,187 posts
  • Locationclimbing Mt Tryhard, one smoldering Meta-Mech corpse at a time

Posted 24 January 2015 - 11:41 AM

View PostFupDup, on 24 January 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

Instead of damage resistance I think that just adding something like 5+ armor per body part would suffice.

I'd also like to see SL range boosts on at least one variant, so I can do 4 SL for backup while not feeling disadvantaged for it. WTB +100% Small Laser range. :D


Given that the baseline lights are probably the Jenner and FS9, I think we should assume the Urbs is a T5 mech out of the box and uberquirk it accordingly.


If it's not too much of a pipe dream, increased ballistic ammo might help the mech actually pack in the big dakka it's famous for, otherwise most might just boat energy. :\

I find additional armor the weakest "toughness" buff of all.

For instance, the HBK very first tweak, before the official passes, even I believe was an armor buff. Still got cored out, and lost the AC, almost instantly. They switched to IS buff instead, and suddenly, the AC20 seemed to last until the whole torso went.

So, IMO, pt for pt, IS buff has seemed to always be better than armor buffs.

View PostBrody319, on 24 January 2015 - 11:41 AM, said:


give it the king crab walking animation

that's 50%. At least

#9 Spheroid

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran Founder
  • Veteran Founder
  • 5,064 posts
  • LocationSouthern Wisconsin

Posted 24 January 2015 - 11:41 AM

50% combined ballistic cooldown, 30% combined ballistic velocity boost.

#10 FupDup

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 26,888 posts
  • LocationThe Keeper of Memes

Posted 24 January 2015 - 11:42 AM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 24 January 2015 - 11:41 AM, said:

I find additional armor the weakest "toughness" buff of all.

For instance, the HBK very first tweak, before the official passes, even I believe was an armor buff. Still got cored out, and lost the AC, almost instantly. They switched to IS buff instead, and suddenly, the AC20 seemed to last until the whole torso went.

So, IMO, pt for pt, IS buff has seemed to always be better than armor buffs.

Posted Image

#11 MilesTeg1982

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 255 posts

Posted 24 January 2015 - 11:42 AM

hmm ... what I really don't understand is - why should a mech which was poorly designed in the first place and is not meant to be competive to any other mech be given additional quirks? espeacially such extreme ones?

#12 FupDup

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 26,888 posts
  • LocationThe Keeper of Memes

Posted 24 January 2015 - 11:43 AM

View PostMilesTeg1982, on 24 January 2015 - 11:42 AM, said:

hmm ... what I really don't understand is - why should a mech which was poorly designed in the first place and is not meant to be competive to any other mech be given additional quirks? espeacially such extreme ones?

This mindset is the reason why we can't have nice things. :(

#13 Brody319

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Ominous
  • The Ominous
  • 6,273 posts

Posted 24 January 2015 - 11:44 AM

View PostMilesTeg1982, on 24 January 2015 - 11:42 AM, said:

hmm ... what I really don't understand is - why should a mech which was poorly designed in the first place and is not meant to be competive to any other mech be given additional quirks? espeacially such extreme ones?



why bother adding it if its just going to be a joke?
Why not give it a fighting chance to be an effective mech?

#14 TheCaptainJZ

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The CyberKnight
  • The CyberKnight
  • 3,688 posts
  • LocationUnited States

Posted 24 January 2015 - 11:46 AM

20% higher top speed

#15 Alwrathandabout42ninjas

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Formidable
  • The Formidable
  • 1,098 posts

Posted 24 January 2015 - 11:47 AM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 24 January 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

and you might want to read the OP Alwrath, I actually covered that in it.

I am in no way, or at any point saying "Give it all of these". I am putting up a menu of ideas, for people to pick and choose from to make an "ideal" blend.

But thanks for proving my prediction right, in the very first reply.


My apologies, I only read the quirks section, skim reading at its finest = D

#16 L3mming2

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 1,304 posts

Posted 24 January 2015 - 11:48 AM

View PostMilesTeg1982, on 24 January 2015 - 11:42 AM, said:

hmm ... what I really don't understand is - why should a mech which was poorly designed in the first place and is not meant to be competive to any other mech be given additional quirks? espeacially such extreme ones?


same reason we have quirks in the first place

#17 Bishop Steiner

    ForumWarrior

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Hammer
  • The Hammer
  • 47,187 posts
  • Locationclimbing Mt Tryhard, one smoldering Meta-Mech corpse at a time

Posted 24 January 2015 - 11:49 AM

View PostMilesTeg1982, on 24 January 2015 - 11:42 AM, said:

hmm ... what I really don't understand is - why should a mech which was poorly designed in the first place and is not meant to be competive to any other mech be given additional quirks? espeacially such extreme ones?

How was it badly designed?

It does what it was meant to, in the era it was designed, extremely well.

For it's intended role, low cost urban defense, speed was not a necessity. Heavy armor and firepower is. As well as relatively easy sustainability.

Many places, like the Free Worlds League, had trouble keeping a supply of weapons like PPCs available, so between that, low heat and no minimum range, an ac10 made a lot of sense. The range was also very adequate for the environment.

More to the point? 10 pp dmg would tear a limb off, or even core most other Light mechs with 1-2 shots, and it's ability to face all it's guns to the rear meant you couldn't readily flank it. And it's heavy (for a Light) armor meant it could take the punishment other Lights usually dished out.

So, no, it was not badly designed, though it was often badly deployed.

Just because you don't understand what a design is meant to do, doesn't make it bad. Your post puts me in mind the Air Force career bureaucrats who are pushing to replace the A10 with F35s in the CS role. No offense meant.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 24 January 2015 - 12:30 PM.


#18 L3mming2

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 1,304 posts

Posted 24 January 2015 - 11:52 AM

like all the OP quirk suggestions, only the JJ one i think is not very usefull, the mech will not be able to equipe them (ore more then 1) if it brings a big ac and back up SL

#19 Aerik Lornes

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 183 posts
  • LocationAlshain , December 31st, 3078

Posted 24 January 2015 - 11:52 AM

I'm not sure what you mean by "grognard" here because I AM a TT grognard and I love mech quirks overall.


Quote

1) Ballistic Cooldown 20%, AC10/20/LB-X Cooldown 20%
1a) AC20 Heat Reduction, 35%
2) Energy Heat Reduction 20%, Small LAser Heat Reduction 20%
3) Energy Cooldown, 15%, Small LAser Cooldown 15%


As much as I've said "PPC" is the best gun for an UM, I'd like the see the Energy Heat Reduction apply ONLY to the Small Laser and like FupDup I think a range increase would be in order.


Quote

1) Internal Structure Increase by 50%
2) Armor Damage reduction 25% (like the damage reduction the old missile doors gave)
3) JJ fuel recharge twice as fast.
4) Boost Twist rate 25-50%.


I like the Twist rate increase and the JJ recharge would be fun to have it bouncing all over the place and both make it able to really work with that 360 twist.

#20 pvtjamesr

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • 62 posts

Posted 24 January 2015 - 11:53 AM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 24 January 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

and you might want to read the OP Alwrath, I actually covered that in it.

I am in no way, or at any point saying "Give it all of these". I am putting up a menu of ideas, for people to pick and choose from to make an "ideal" blend.

But thanks for proving my prediction right, in the very first reply.


He was probably referring to the values. Even if it is a light mech that goes 32 kph, 25% armor is a bit much...same with 40% ac/10 cooldown.





4 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 4 guests, 0 anonymous users