Blueduck, hybrid black:
At the very start of CW, Lords wanted to do the same thing. They wanted to push through Wolf to get to Ghost Bear because they had some beef they wanted to work out. For a time, we at CWI considered it. It wasn't our problem, after all; it would only require us to have some patience.
But it quickly became apparent that the way the game works does not make this a practical solution. No faction gets to *choose* their attack corridors. The only way you would get an attack option into Jade Falcon is if you pushed all the way through Wolf space. But Wolf and Ghost Bear share a huge border, so what is likely is that you'd have to take the vast majority of planets before you get that option. I'm sure that's okay with you, to crush us down to The Rock before getting that option. And I'm sure that's okay with Ghost Bear, as it makes it significantly easier for them to become the ilClan. But it's not okay with us, and it puts us weeks behind schedule.
And then what? Then our only attack options will be against Ghost Bear. Our attack route won't automatically try to re-attach to Rasalhague or Steiner, it will keep on selecting Ghost Bear planets. More than likely, it will then be us pushing into Ghost Bear space, not toward the IS. Then CGBI will get all flustered and claim we are trying to take all their planets, and start a war with us (think about how angry they get when we just *retake* worlds that belonged to us to begin with).
Okay so... what about the plan to trade planets? "You push forward, we take the planet behind it." Again, we don't have the option of choosing what worlds to attack. Our target might not be the planet behind the push, it might be a planet in CGB territory. We don't get a new target until we take that one. And if we do take it, CGBI declares war against us. But what if - miracle of miracles - we ARE allowed to take the planet behind your moving island? Well in that case, your future targets in Clan Wolf space probably *won't* be further in the direction you want to go. They might be east, north, or south. They might not even be attached to that island.
And... a Clan Wolf attack lane into Smoke Jaguar? Why would we want that? We don't *want* to attack other clans. We don't *want* to attack Ghost Bear, or Smoke Jaguar, or even Jade Falcon. That doesn't help us in our goal at all; it only makes relations with Smoke Jaguar more rocky, and gives them a harder time if merc units join Clan Wolf and attack them from there.
And what about Jade Falcon? Do you think they will be okay with this? Let's say everything goes how you hope, and you have a 1-planet island in Jade Falcon territory to fight them from. So... what happens then? You attack their worlds, and take their territory? Let's say you win. Do you just keep eating up their territory to get "good games?" When do you stop? Never? What if they don't retake their land? Then that land you have in Jade Falcon territory doesn't do anything for you, and you won't get "good games."
Okay, on the other hand, what if they beat you? Or what if they beat you when you're not online due to timezones? You're island will disappear and we have to start this insanity ALL OVER AGAIN. And who suffers from this? Not Ghost Bear. Becoming the ilClan is becoming sooo easy for them with all of this. Jade Falcon? A little bit, but not much. They only have to retake a few worlds. Nope, every time you try to make an island in Jade Falcon, you'll be setting Clan Wolf back hugely. Every time you switch sides this will happen. Every time you lose your island, this will happen. Why would we want that? It's stupid. And that's assuming we trust you to begin with. The fact that you guys join the Clans every other week and spend your time doing nothing but hindering Clan Wolf doesn't lend yourselves very well to trust.
And what do any of these options look like to outsiders? To pugs? To new players? It looks like Clan Wolf sucks and is getting their ass kicked constantly. A lot of these people will not join Clan Wolf, or will leave Clan Wolf. Leaving us weaker. Even inexperienced players have value, and can grow in the future. I'd imagine a few players in Clan Wolf organized units might leave as well.
Would CGBI put up with any of this, if they were in our shoes? I really doubt it. We already get 0 support from anyone there on this issue.
6
Tentative Ghost Bear/wolf/merc Agreement
Started by Star Wolves Admin Account, Jan 25 2015 06:03 PM
375 replies to this topic
#122
-
-
- The 1 Percent
- 5,879 posts
Member
- Twitch: Link
- LocationPeriphery of the Inner Sphere, moving toward the core worlds with each passing day.
Posted 26 January 2015 - 04:25 PM
Fox Kell, on 26 January 2015 - 03:42 PM, said:
No we lost credibility when certain units RP'ed our own death. Pushed away very strong allies and possibly the best units in the game to flex his muscles, now he's getting whipped for it.
Dont worry its all gonna be ok soon, negotiations are underway. We will be stronger than ever.
I did not push anyone away...? WTF are you talking about?
#123
Posted 26 January 2015 - 04:27 PM
Gyrok, on 26 January 2015 - 06:51 AM, said:
Actually, I would never put Clan Wolf in a position to get the short end of anything.
Except you constantly do with all the forum bravado both you and members of your unit post that attracts every single comp team to want to attack us. Not to mention the retaking of New Caledonia which was literally on the verge of establishing a corridor for CGB into Falcon and Steiner. MS even said they were willing to cease aggressions against Wolf had the corridor been opened. Considering this was after you sealed the deal on that, why would they have a reason to lie?
In the end, what exactly is your unit bringing to the table? You stir the pot, CWI and GK take the brunt, and RCW takes back what is lost if we're unsuccessful? That seems the general sense of how things have been going on for quite awhile now, and it's getting old.
#124
-
-
- Legendary Founder
- 658 posts
Member
Posted 26 January 2015 - 04:30 PM
What a joke this is LOL! First off let me say that I'm truly sorry that PGI screwed over the Merc's. It's real shame that after telling Merc units for months and months about how they were going to fight in CW and get their very own place to call their own that they only got thrown under the bus in the end. If I were commanding a Merc unit I would be doing just what they are doing now. Which has lead us to what we have now, "Community Warfare" that is anything but "Community Warfare".
What the Merc units and even some Clan units are failing to understand is that "we" are not all in the same boat as you would think. There are Clan units like Delta who have members who have sold off all their IS Mechs and are only loyal to the Clans and have no plans on that ever changing period. We have no interest at all in playing anything other than Clans so the offers you have placed on the table do not appeal to us. Even if they are good offers "we" are simply not interested in them. Those of you who are not loyal to one side or the other have the freedom to play whatever side you want whenever you want and if that's what you want then more power to you.
However, you need to see things from our point of view when suggesting a course of action, Were locked into one side and one side only. So appearances and territory mean a lot more to us then it does to you. I'm sorry that you don't have an attack corridor to your liking but that's not "our" problem to be blunt. If you want to fight Clan Jade Falcon you have courses of action that you can take that don't involve joining Wolf, which I'm personally against since Merc should never be hired by a Clan unit in the first place, but that's just my opinion. MWO has private matchs that you can scrim them on, or you guys could ask them to join the pub Q and meet up with them there, or you can join a unit that has an attack corridor to them.
But to ask us who want to play "Real Community Warfare" to just look that other way just so you can have as many attack corridors as you like wail the rest of us just suck it is just not going to work. "We" are working with what PGI has given us, were not trying to work deals to open attack corridors that "we" would like, "we" are just dealing with the cards that PGI gave us. "If" scrimmaging, pub Q's or Joining Steiner is not a good option for you then I would use your time to talk to PGI about correcting the issue "they" create for you.
Like I stated already, "I hate what PGI did to you" it was wrong, but don't take this as me stating we have not enjoyed fighting you guys the battles have been fun, we win some we lose some but that's what its all about.
And give Gyrok a break he is the only one to stand up for Wolf when deals were being made behind our backs, he did not bend and he did not break, he was just doing what he had to since no one else would. Maybe now that I've spell some of our reasons why we do what we do you can better understand our point of view......
What the Merc units and even some Clan units are failing to understand is that "we" are not all in the same boat as you would think. There are Clan units like Delta who have members who have sold off all their IS Mechs and are only loyal to the Clans and have no plans on that ever changing period. We have no interest at all in playing anything other than Clans so the offers you have placed on the table do not appeal to us. Even if they are good offers "we" are simply not interested in them. Those of you who are not loyal to one side or the other have the freedom to play whatever side you want whenever you want and if that's what you want then more power to you.
However, you need to see things from our point of view when suggesting a course of action, Were locked into one side and one side only. So appearances and territory mean a lot more to us then it does to you. I'm sorry that you don't have an attack corridor to your liking but that's not "our" problem to be blunt. If you want to fight Clan Jade Falcon you have courses of action that you can take that don't involve joining Wolf, which I'm personally against since Merc should never be hired by a Clan unit in the first place, but that's just my opinion. MWO has private matchs that you can scrim them on, or you guys could ask them to join the pub Q and meet up with them there, or you can join a unit that has an attack corridor to them.
But to ask us who want to play "Real Community Warfare" to just look that other way just so you can have as many attack corridors as you like wail the rest of us just suck it is just not going to work. "We" are working with what PGI has given us, were not trying to work deals to open attack corridors that "we" would like, "we" are just dealing with the cards that PGI gave us. "If" scrimmaging, pub Q's or Joining Steiner is not a good option for you then I would use your time to talk to PGI about correcting the issue "they" create for you.
Like I stated already, "I hate what PGI did to you" it was wrong, but don't take this as me stating we have not enjoyed fighting you guys the battles have been fun, we win some we lose some but that's what its all about.
And give Gyrok a break he is the only one to stand up for Wolf when deals were being made behind our backs, he did not bend and he did not break, he was just doing what he had to since no one else would. Maybe now that I've spell some of our reasons why we do what we do you can better understand our point of view......
#125
-
-
- The 1 Percent
- 5,879 posts
Member
- Twitch: Link
- LocationPeriphery of the Inner Sphere, moving toward the core worlds with each passing day.
Posted 26 January 2015 - 04:31 PM
Knightcrawler, on 26 January 2015 - 04:25 PM, said:
Blueduck, hybrid black:
At the very start of CW, Lords wanted to do the same thing. They wanted to push through Wolf to get to Ghost Bear because they had some beef they wanted to work out. For a time, we at CWI considered it. It wasn't our problem, after all; it would only require us to have some patience.
But it quickly became apparent that the way the game works does not make this a practical solution. No faction gets to *choose* their attack corridors. The only way you would get an attack option into Jade Falcon is if you pushed all the way through Wolf space. But Wolf and Ghost Bear share a huge border, so what is likely is that you'd have to take the vast majority of planets before you get that option. I'm sure that's okay with you, to crush us down to The Rock before getting that option. And I'm sure that's okay with Ghost Bear, as it makes it significantly easier for them to become the ilClan. But it's not okay with us, and it puts us weeks behind schedule.
And then what? Then our only attack options will be against Ghost Bear. Our attack route won't automatically try to re-attach to Rasalhague or Steiner, it will keep on selecting Ghost Bear planets. More than likely, it will then be us pushing into Ghost Bear space, not toward the IS. Then CGBI will get all flustered and claim we are trying to take all their planets, and start a war with us (think about how angry they get when we just *retake* worlds that belonged to us to begin with).
Okay so... what about the plan to trade planets? "You push forward, we take the planet behind it." Again, we don't have the option of choosing what worlds to attack. Our target might not be the planet behind the push, it might be a planet in CGB territory. We don't get a new target until we take that one. And if we do take it, CGBI declares war against us. But what if - miracle of miracles - we ARE allowed to take the planet behind your moving island? Well in that case, your future targets in Clan Wolf space probably *won't* be further in the direction you want to go. They might be east, north, or south. They might not even be attached to that island.
And... a Clan Wolf attack lane into Smoke Jaguar? Why would we want that? We don't *want* to attack other clans. We don't *want* to attack Ghost Bear, or Smoke Jaguar, or even Jade Falcon. That doesn't help us in our goal at all; it only makes relations with Smoke Jaguar more rocky, and gives them a harder time if merc units join Clan Wolf and attack them from there.
And what about Jade Falcon? Do you think they will be okay with this? Let's say everything goes how you hope, and you have a 1-planet island in Jade Falcon territory to fight them from. So... what happens then? You attack their worlds, and take their territory? Let's say you win. Do you just keep eating up their territory to get "good games?" When do you stop? Never? What if they don't retake their land? Then that land you have in Jade Falcon territory doesn't do anything for you, and you won't get "good games."
Okay, on the other hand, what if they beat you? Or what if they beat you when you're not online due to timezones? You're island will disappear and we have to start this insanity ALL OVER AGAIN. And who suffers from this? Not Ghost Bear. Becoming the ilClan is becoming sooo easy for them with all of this. Jade Falcon? A little bit, but not much. They only have to retake a few worlds. Nope, every time you try to make an island in Jade Falcon, you'll be setting Clan Wolf back hugely. Every time you switch sides this will happen. Every time you lose your island, this will happen. Why would we want that? It's stupid. And that's assuming we trust you to begin with. The fact that you guys join the Clans every other week and spend your time doing nothing but hindering Clan Wolf doesn't lend yourselves very well to trust.
And what do any of these options look like to outsiders? To pugs? To new players? It looks like Clan Wolf sucks and is getting their ass kicked constantly. A lot of these people will not join Clan Wolf, or will leave Clan Wolf. Leaving us weaker. Even inexperienced players have value, and can grow in the future. I'd imagine a few players in Clan Wolf organized units might leave as well.
Would CGBI put up with any of this, if they were in our shoes? I really doubt it. We already get 0 support from anyone there on this issue.
At the very start of CW, Lords wanted to do the same thing. They wanted to push through Wolf to get to Ghost Bear because they had some beef they wanted to work out. For a time, we at CWI considered it. It wasn't our problem, after all; it would only require us to have some patience.
But it quickly became apparent that the way the game works does not make this a practical solution. No faction gets to *choose* their attack corridors. The only way you would get an attack option into Jade Falcon is if you pushed all the way through Wolf space. But Wolf and Ghost Bear share a huge border, so what is likely is that you'd have to take the vast majority of planets before you get that option. I'm sure that's okay with you, to crush us down to The Rock before getting that option. And I'm sure that's okay with Ghost Bear, as it makes it significantly easier for them to become the ilClan. But it's not okay with us, and it puts us weeks behind schedule.
And then what? Then our only attack options will be against Ghost Bear. Our attack route won't automatically try to re-attach to Rasalhague or Steiner, it will keep on selecting Ghost Bear planets. More than likely, it will then be us pushing into Ghost Bear space, not toward the IS. Then CGBI will get all flustered and claim we are trying to take all their planets, and start a war with us (think about how angry they get when we just *retake* worlds that belonged to us to begin with).
Okay so... what about the plan to trade planets? "You push forward, we take the planet behind it." Again, we don't have the option of choosing what worlds to attack. Our target might not be the planet behind the push, it might be a planet in CGB territory. We don't get a new target until we take that one. And if we do take it, CGBI declares war against us. But what if - miracle of miracles - we ARE allowed to take the planet behind your moving island? Well in that case, your future targets in Clan Wolf space probably *won't* be further in the direction you want to go. They might be east, north, or south. They might not even be attached to that island.
And... a Clan Wolf attack lane into Smoke Jaguar? Why would we want that? We don't *want* to attack other clans. We don't *want* to attack Ghost Bear, or Smoke Jaguar, or even Jade Falcon. That doesn't help us in our goal at all; it only makes relations with Smoke Jaguar more rocky, and gives them a harder time if merc units join Clan Wolf and attack them from there.
And what about Jade Falcon? Do you think they will be okay with this? Let's say everything goes how you hope, and you have a 1-planet island in Jade Falcon territory to fight them from. So... what happens then? You attack their worlds, and take their territory? Let's say you win. Do you just keep eating up their territory to get "good games?" When do you stop? Never? What if they don't retake their land? Then that land you have in Jade Falcon territory doesn't do anything for you, and you won't get "good games."
Okay, on the other hand, what if they beat you? Or what if they beat you when you're not online due to timezones? You're island will disappear and we have to start this insanity ALL OVER AGAIN. And who suffers from this? Not Ghost Bear. Becoming the ilClan is becoming sooo easy for them with all of this. Jade Falcon? A little bit, but not much. They only have to retake a few worlds. Nope, every time you try to make an island in Jade Falcon, you'll be setting Clan Wolf back hugely. Every time you switch sides this will happen. Every time you lose your island, this will happen. Why would we want that? It's stupid. And that's assuming we trust you to begin with. The fact that you guys join the Clans every other week and spend your time doing nothing but hindering Clan Wolf doesn't lend yourselves very well to trust.
And what do any of these options look like to outsiders? To pugs? To new players? It looks like Clan Wolf sucks and is getting their ass kicked constantly. A lot of these people will not join Clan Wolf, or will leave Clan Wolf. Leaving us weaker. Even inexperienced players have value, and can grow in the future. I'd imagine a few players in Clan Wolf organized units might leave as well.
Would CGBI put up with any of this, if they were in our shoes? I really doubt it. We already get 0 support from anyone there on this issue.
Finally!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Someone looking at this the same way I see it...
If I could award you a googalplex internets you would have won them all.
How no one else sees this is beyond me. The demands are a farce at best...and flat out ludicrous at worst.
#126
-
-
- The 1 Percent
- 5,879 posts
Member
- Twitch: Link
- LocationPeriphery of the Inner Sphere, moving toward the core worlds with each passing day.
Posted 26 January 2015 - 04:36 PM
Aresye, on 26 January 2015 - 04:27 PM, said:
Except you constantly do with all the forum bravado both you and members of your unit post that attracts every single comp team to want to attack us. Not to mention the retaking of New Caledonia which was literally on the verge of establishing a corridor for CGB into Falcon and Steiner. MS even said they were willing to cease aggressions against Wolf had the corridor been opened. Considering this was after you sealed the deal on that, why would they have a reason to lie?
In the end, what exactly is your unit bringing to the table? You stir the pot, CWI and GK take the brunt, and RCW takes back what is lost if we're unsuccessful? That seems the general sense of how things have been going on for quite awhile now, and it's getting old.
Oh really?
Have you not even seen that we are fighting the war, often times on planets by ourselves, holding our own line?
If you think "CWI is taking the brunt"...you are sadly mistaken.
Remember all those lovely weeks where CWI was doing nothing in CW? When Clan Wolf was basically on life support?
You know who was still fighting? Us and GK...that was it...even GK flat out got tired of it.
THAT my short sighted friend, is partly why they took a break to go to the IS and just have fun. It is also partly why they are no longer so engaged with CW. They could care less because politics bore them.
I, honestly, agree. I just want the BS with the mercs to f*cking stop. I have PERSONALLY, been trying to find a way to get them off of us for 5 weeks. Ask the MS/CI guys. I have likely had far more conversations with them than you ever had. They were never angry before, and now they are no more angry than they ever were...they are just trolling because the lot of you feel the need to jump in on the bandwagon.
They know me better than you think, and I have even had words with several of them since....
The reality of the situation is, everyone just needs to keep the pups on the leash in the forums, and some Clan Wolf units need to grow a set and realize that we are the whipping boy until we prove otherwise.
Edited by Gyrok, 26 January 2015 - 04:37 PM.
#127
-
-
- Ace Of Spades
- 2,629 posts
Member
- LocationTerra
Posted 26 January 2015 - 04:37 PM
Aresye, on 26 January 2015 - 04:27 PM, said:
Except you constantly do with all the forum bravado both you and members of your unit post that attracts every single comp team to want to attack us. Not to mention the retaking of New Caledonia which was literally on the verge of establishing a corridor for CGB into Falcon and Steiner. MS even said they were willing to cease aggressions against Wolf had the corridor been opened. Considering this was after you sealed the deal on that, why would they have a reason to lie?
In the end, what exactly is your unit bringing to the table? You stir the pot, CWI and GK take the brunt, and RCW takes back what is lost if we're unsuccessful? That seems the general sense of how things have been going on for quite awhile now, and it's getting old.
Oh and let us forget how hard YOUR unit screwed us over with the Steiner ceasefire.
That did not piss anyone off and bring hordes of people to our doorstep either, nor did it make us a laughing stock.
I love how we have people in Clan Wolf so scared of the Ghost Bears that they will disown Gyrok and Delta Galaxy as a whole for standing up to them despite the fact that every time they have poked us so far they have gained planets at our expense while we do nothing in retaliation.
I think some of you guys picked the wrong faction.
Edited by Kain Thul, 26 January 2015 - 04:58 PM.
#128
-
-
- Mercenary Rank 2
- 1,378 posts
Member
Posted 26 January 2015 - 04:58 PM
Look, I'm not saying we allow a corridor. If most of wolf wants to fight them then so be it.
That said it would be nice if we could all agree to not take it personally and try to work with the mercs when the opportunity presents itself. Heck it would be nice if we could even get a couple to join us.
Regardless lets at least try to get a list of problems we could take the to the dev. Maybe they could actually find a solution to what the merc units want.
That said it would be nice if we could all agree to not take it personally and try to work with the mercs when the opportunity presents itself. Heck it would be nice if we could even get a couple to join us.
Regardless lets at least try to get a list of problems we could take the to the dev. Maybe they could actually find a solution to what the merc units want.
#129
-
-
- Ace Of Spades
- 2,629 posts
Member
- LocationTerra
Posted 26 January 2015 - 04:59 PM
Blueduck, on 26 January 2015 - 04:58 PM, said:
Look, I'm not saying we allow a corridor. If most of wolf wants to fight them then so be it.
That said it would be nice if we could all agree to not take it personally and try to work with the mercs when the opportunity presents itself. Heck it would be nice if we could even get a couple to join us.
Regardless lets at least try to get a list of problems we could take the to the dev. Maybe they could actually find a solution to what the merc units want.
That said it would be nice if we could all agree to not take it personally and try to work with the mercs when the opportunity presents itself. Heck it would be nice if we could even get a couple to join us.
Regardless lets at least try to get a list of problems we could take the to the dev. Maybe they could actually find a solution to what the merc units want.
I don't think crying to the developers is a valid course of action either.
#130
-
-
- The 1 Percent
- 5,879 posts
Member
- Twitch: Link
- LocationPeriphery of the Inner Sphere, moving toward the core worlds with each passing day.
Posted 26 January 2015 - 04:59 PM
Blueduck, on 26 January 2015 - 04:58 PM, said:
Look, I'm not saying we allow a corridor. If most of wolf wants to fight them then so be it.
That said it would be nice if we could all agree to not take it personally and try to work with the mercs when the opportunity presents itself. Heck it would be nice if we could even get a couple to join us.
Regardless lets at least try to get a list of problems we could take the to the dev. Maybe they could actually find a solution to what the merc units want.
That said it would be nice if we could all agree to not take it personally and try to work with the mercs when the opportunity presents itself. Heck it would be nice if we could even get a couple to join us.
Regardless lets at least try to get a list of problems we could take the to the dev. Maybe they could actually find a solution to what the merc units want.
That is sensible, I can appreciate the merit, and we will see what happens.
#131
-
-
- Bad Company
- 816 posts
Member
- Google+: Link
Posted 26 January 2015 - 05:01 PM
Blueduck, on 26 January 2015 - 04:58 PM, said:
Look, I'm not saying we allow a corridor. If most of wolf wants to fight them then so be it.
That said it would be nice if we could all agree to not take it personally and try to work with the mercs when the opportunity presents itself. Heck it would be nice if we could even get a couple to join us.
Regardless lets at least try to get a list of problems we could take the to the dev. Maybe they could actually find a solution to what the merc units want.
That said it would be nice if we could all agree to not take it personally and try to work with the mercs when the opportunity presents itself. Heck it would be nice if we could even get a couple to join us.
Regardless lets at least try to get a list of problems we could take the to the dev. Maybe they could actually find a solution to what the merc units want.
Be careful Blue...you keep coming across as reasonable, sane, and personable.
#132
-
-
- Mercenary Rank 2
- 1,378 posts
Member
Posted 26 January 2015 - 05:03 PM
Ax2Grind, on 26 January 2015 - 05:01 PM, said:
Be careful Blue...you keep coming across as reasonable, sane, and personable.
As I say I think most of the issues stem from a broken beta (not unexpected). Lets go get a wish list of things to improve it and go give it to John Wolf. He said he is concerned about the current anger out there and is interested to know if we can come up with some ideas. Maybe we could even get him to take it to the devs.
#133
-
-
- The 1 Percent
- 5,879 posts
Member
- Twitch: Link
- LocationPeriphery of the Inner Sphere, moving toward the core worlds with each passing day.
Posted 26 January 2015 - 05:04 PM
Kain Thul, on 26 January 2015 - 04:59 PM, said:
I don't think crying to the developers is a valid course of action either.
I would not say crying, but pointing out the flaws in the system. Like diplomacy is only as good as the people you can trust.
As we have seen, some are trustworthy, others are not. This plays to the detriment of all when diplomatic accords cannot be held.
That is an area that needs work.
We have also seen that mercs and daggerstars have nothing for them at the moment. Which is to say not much less than proper faction units, but still...
We have also seen too much freedom of contract choice allowing too many units to jump and form large blocks quickly. Making community warfare less war and more chaos.
The system definitely needs more rules. Some ideas bounced off russ and others may help to solve the issues we see now.
#134
-
-
- Bad Company
- 816 posts
Member
- Google+: Link
Posted 26 January 2015 - 05:07 PM
Diplomacy is working as intended, and is working great. It's not about Faction diplomacy...it's about Unit diplomacy. The players decide. That's fantastic and one of the best things about CW. You don't get to demand anyone plays the way you want. You can however work to get folks to agree to anything. Whether or not you succeed, and for how long, will be up to you and the units your working with. That's awesome.
#135
-
-
- Mercenary Rank 2
- 1,378 posts
Member
Posted 26 January 2015 - 05:10 PM
Gyrok, on 26 January 2015 - 05:04 PM, said:
I would not say crying, but pointing out the flaws in the system. Like diplomacy is only as good as the people you can trust.
As we have seen, some are trustworthy, others are not. This plays to the detriment of all when diplomatic accords cannot be held.
That is an area that needs work.
We have also seen that mercs and daggerstars have nothing for them at the moment. Which is to say not much less than proper faction units, but still...
We have also seen too much freedom of contract choice allowing too many units to jump and form large blocks quickly. Making community warfare less war and more chaos.
The system definitely needs more rules. Some ideas bounced off russ and others may help to solve the issues we see now.
I love this post!
Lets see if we can't get a list of ideas going and some major flaws and exploits we see right now.
I very much sympathize with the mercs in that they want fights; hell half the time I don't even play CW because of no action.
At the same time we shouldn't have to give up planets in some weird exchange just so the merc units can fight people.
Certainly there is some fix to this the devs could implement.
#136
-
-
- CS 2019 Gold Champ
- 3,830 posts
Member
- Location2 Time MWO World Champion
Posted 26 January 2015 - 05:10 PM
Gyrok, on 26 January 2015 - 05:04 PM, said:
I would not say crying, but pointing out the flaws in the system. Like diplomacy is only as good as the people you can trust.
As we have seen, some are trustworthy, others are not. This plays to the detriment of all when diplomatic accords cannot be held.
That is an area that needs work.
We have also seen that mercs and daggerstars have nothing for them at the moment. Which is to say not much less than proper faction units, but still...
We have also seen too much freedom of contract choice allowing too many units to jump and form large blocks quickly. Making community warfare less war and more chaos.
The system definitely needs more rules. Some ideas bounced off russ and others may help to solve the issues we see now.
As we have seen, some are trustworthy, others are not. This plays to the detriment of all when diplomatic accords cannot be held.
That is an area that needs work.
We have also seen that mercs and daggerstars have nothing for them at the moment. Which is to say not much less than proper faction units, but still...
We have also seen too much freedom of contract choice allowing too many units to jump and form large blocks quickly. Making community warfare less war and more chaos.
The system definitely needs more rules. Some ideas bounced off russ and others may help to solve the issues we see now.
That is sensible as well, more rational talk, and less anger, mocking, accusations from both sides will definately help.
#137
-
-
- CS 2019 Gold Champ
- 3,830 posts
Member
- Location2 Time MWO World Champion
Posted 26 January 2015 - 05:15 PM
Blueduck, on 26 January 2015 - 05:03 PM, said:
As I say I think most of the issues stem from a broken beta (not unexpected). Lets go get a wish list of things to improve it and go give it to John Wolf. He said he is concerned about the current anger out there and is interested to know if we can come up with some ideas. Maybe we could even get him to take it to the devs.
We may also want to ask John Wolf as to the broken algorithm leaving us no FRR planets to take again, leaving us only CJF and CGB to attack.
#138
Posted 26 January 2015 - 06:32 PM
Gyrok, on 26 January 2015 - 04:36 PM, said:
Oh really?
Have you not even seen that we are fighting the war, often times on planets by ourselves, holding our own line?
If you think "CWI is taking the brunt"...you are sadly mistaken.
Uh...where? The planet's histories don't lie m8. Each player that fights for a planet gets a single tag towards their unit's name (12man = 12 tags), and at the end of the cycle, the unit with the most tags accumulated get their name on the planet. CWI currently has more owned planets than all of CWDG's prior tag histories combined.
Or if you want to get specific:
CWI = 51 Planet Entries, 13 Planets Owned
GK = 11 Planet Entries, 1 Planet Owned (And they were with Kurita for like 2 weeks)
CWDG = 7 Planet Entries, 1 Planet Owned
If you were truly taking the brunt of the overall work, you should technically be acquiring more tags than other units on that planet, and have your name listed in the historical ownerships.
And in case you think I'm just BS-ing the way planet ownership works, here it is, straight from the developer's mouths themselves:
Karl Berg, on 18 December 2014 - 07:51 PM, said:
We count wins by unit member for both attack and defend missions. For example, if you drop a full 12-man unit group and win an attack, your score on that planet increases by 12 for that 24 hour period. If you drop by yourself as defense and win, your unit gains one point for that 24 hour period.
At the end of the 24 hour period, the unit with the most wins for the winning faction takes ownership of that planet. Your unit also get entered into the planets history as successfully defending or invading that planet for the given date.
At the end of the 24 hour period, the unit with the most wins for the winning faction takes ownership of that planet. Your unit also get entered into the planets history as successfully defending or invading that planet for the given date.
#139
-
-
- Littlest Helper
- 29,240 posts
Member
- Location#NOToTaterBalance #BadBalanceOverlordIsBad
Posted 26 January 2015 - 06:50 PM
Aresye, on 26 January 2015 - 06:32 PM, said:
Uh...where? The planet's histories don't lie m8. Each player that fights for a planet gets a single tag towards their unit's name (12man = 12 tags), and at the end of the cycle, the unit with the most tags accumulated get their name on the planet. CWI currently has more owned planets than all of CWDG's prior tag histories combined.
Or if you want to get specific:
CWI = 51 Planet Entries, 13 Planets Owned
GK = 11 Planet Entries, 1 Planet Owned (And they were with Kurita for like 2 weeks)
CWDG = 7 Planet Entries, 1 Planet Owned
If you were truly taking the brunt of the overall work, you should technically be acquiring more tags than other units on that planet, and have your name listed in the historical ownerships.
And in case you think I'm just BS-ing the way planet ownership works, here it is, straight from the developer's mouths themselves:
Just for reference, you can "steal" planet flags in name by doing defenses. It's not that hard to do if you just show up for a brief defense (even through a ghost win).
Just FYI. Carry on.
#140
-
-
- 73 posts
Member
Posted 26 January 2015 - 07:09 PM
***Only speaking my opinion here, not speaking for any faction or unit***
First off, i agree that the attack lanes need to be reworked. However that is beyond our control and all we can do is express our wishes to PGI then wait and hope.
That being said, why does every one of these "ideas/accords" involve cutting Wolf in half?
There are other options but no one seems interested in any of them that don't involve Wolf giving up planets.
How is asking us to lose territory and basically allowing (potentially) hostile factions/units at our back, fair just because some of your guys don't want to have a different icon next to their name?
I've read repeatedly here that they just want to fight CJF but despite the fact there are a couple options to easily do that they choose not to.
If all you want are good fights why don't the merc units pick different factions and fight each other. If territory truly doesn't matter as is claimed then this would give you plenty of challenging fights as well as the rewards that go with it.
First off, i agree that the attack lanes need to be reworked. However that is beyond our control and all we can do is express our wishes to PGI then wait and hope.
That being said, why does every one of these "ideas/accords" involve cutting Wolf in half?
There are other options but no one seems interested in any of them that don't involve Wolf giving up planets.
How is asking us to lose territory and basically allowing (potentially) hostile factions/units at our back, fair just because some of your guys don't want to have a different icon next to their name?
I've read repeatedly here that they just want to fight CJF but despite the fact there are a couple options to easily do that they choose not to.
If all you want are good fights why don't the merc units pick different factions and fight each other. If territory truly doesn't matter as is claimed then this would give you plenty of challenging fights as well as the rewards that go with it.
5 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 5 guests, 0 anonymous users
