51 replies to this topic

[_Comrade_]

Thier will be tears but for Draconis combine players thier will be cheers of joy when it resets

[Dauphni]

Personally, I don't even think a reset makes sense unless one faction is utterly dominating all the others, at which point they can claim to have "won" CW.

That said, I can imagine that if this game hits Steam, it could be nice if all the new people coming in see a fresh map, instead of one that clearly has a lot of history behind it.

[Davers]

The reset is more than likely inevitable, but I will miss the Marik Wormhole, as it means that we will once again be totally locked behind Steiner/Davion and cut off from the rest of the game. I know I will be petitioning for my unit to go merc so we can at least visit the rest of the IS.

[DoomEngine]

Davers, on 26 January 2015 - 08:04 AM, said:

The reset is more than likely inevitable, but I will miss the Marik Wormhole, as it means that we will once again be totally locked behind Steiner/Davion and cut off from the rest of the game. I know I will be petitioning for my unit to go merc so we can at least visit the rest of the IS.

I'll never forget the double-take i did when i first saw that on the map!

[Davers]

DoomEngine, on 26 January 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

I'll never forget the double-take i did when i first saw that on the map!

I don't think it was the first wormhole (I think the Clans had one first) but it is definitely the most noticeable! If we had never taken Van Dieman IV we never would have gotten it.

Edited by Davers, 26 January 2015 - 08:18 AM.

[Jakob Knight]

I don't see why anyone would think a reset would matter a great deal. The Units that have done well now will do well after any reset, and just start taking worlds over again. They may start back at the original borders, but they will still produce the same results, and all you are doing is instilling an idea that any progress at all in the strategic map is worthless because a reset will come along and wipe out anything you've put time and effort into.

So, if a reset happens, it won't change anything except erode confidence in CW truly being 'hardcore mode'. The one defining characteristic of CW that makes it different from Public is that the results of your combat performance in a battle follow you afterwards. Using a reset would make CW look too much like just another version of Public, where each battle's outcome means nothing permanent (within the scope of the game).

For these reasons, a reset should be a drastic, last-option choice only to be used if CW will end if not used. Just going from Beta to Release alone is not such a situation, and even the Clans reaching Terra would not be, as the Inner Sphere would now -all- be able to strike the Clan that so advanced. Taking Terra should not be the only concern for the Clans, as they should also have to worry about -holding- it long-term, and the history of the Inner Sphere does not have to end just because the Clans managed to, for a single hour, hold a single planet. Let things play out as they will, and only use a Reset if there is simply no other way to get one side or the other (All Clans or All Inner Sphere) out of their homeworlds due to overpowering numbers against them.

My own two cents.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 26 January 2015 - 08:25 AM.

[Davers]

Jakob Knight, on 26 January 2015 - 08:17 AM, said:

I don't see why anyone would think a reset would matter a great deal. The Units that have done well now will do well after any reset, and just start taking worlds over again. They may start back at the original borders, but they will still produce the same results, and all you are doing is instilling an idea that any progress at all in the strategic map is worthless because a reset will come along and wipe out anything you've put time and effort into.

So, if a reset happens, it won't change anything except erode confidence in CW truly being 'hardcore mode'. The one defining characteristic of CW that makes it different from Public is that the results of your combat performance in a battle follow you afterwards. Using a reset would make CW look too much like just another version of Public, where each battle's outcome means nothing.

My own two cents.

Well, I am predicting that PGI still has some work to do on the overall design of CW. I don't think the systems they have in place are good for a permanent map without the 'seasonal' approach. I am hoping this will be addressed.

Within a month the Clans should be at Terra. Kurita will have lost over 90 planets by then, maybe more. I guess we could just keep going until the whole IS is conquered? That should take about 6 months, maybe less. Four perhaps?

[MahKraah]

the real reason for witch faction is successfull or witch is not are the big progamer mercunits(bpgm).

pgi archived to suprisingly well balance is vs clan tech with the massive quirks some chassies recived . a average clan team can not roll a good is team.

also all the factions have a suprisingly balanced loyalist population with liao drops out at the bottom and davion at the top.

all this steamroll movments on the map are powerd by bpgm bulking up in factions.

best example is cgb, the super powerhouse, unstopable!
clans where rolling the is at all attackoptions.

than suddenly the bpgm left cgb and partly other clans, joined the other side and pounded cgb to a point where the native cgb poulation simply stoped to play because it was pointless.

the recent move of ms ci aces and others back into cgb illustrates the scope of this migrations: this bpgm´s eaquals the numbers of the WHOLE kurita loyalist population and clearly beat it on average combat effectivness.

the hopping merc groupes could have been the balancing factor for the whole gamemode but there number and combat weight dwarfs full full factions and they have the unholy tendency to bulk together and therfor destroying any balance that otherwise might be archivable.

next example is davion, largest loyalist population, robinson rangers and headhunter of davions allone have as much pilots enlisted as all kurita houseunits together. on top of that they had the biggest merc population of all is factions and in result they steamrolled on 3 fronts.

with mercs going liao and davion mercs trying clantech they suddenly lose planets on marik and liao front for week now and just recently also to kurita.

the relation of sice and combatweight between house units and the nomadic merc units its way out of a healty balance and the mercs do not act resposible with the gamebreaking power they have.

with all the fixes cw need, to become enjoyable, population control is the most important one.
if thats not done right all other things become meaningless.

[Harathan]

Jakob Knight, on 26 January 2015 - 08:17 AM, said:

I don't see why anyone would think a reset would matter a great deal. The Units that have done well now will do well after any reset, and just start taking worlds over again. They may start back at the original borders, but they will still produce the same results, and all you are doing is instilling an idea that any progress at all in the strategic map is worthless because a reset will come along and wipe out anything you've put time and effort into.

So, if a reset happens, it won't change anything except erode confidence in CW truly being 'hardcore mode'. The one defining characteristic of CW that makes it different from Public is that the results of your combat performance in a battle follow you afterwards. Using a reset would make CW look too much like just another version of Public, where each battle's outcome means nothing permanent (within the scope of the game).

For these reasons, a reset should be a drastic, last-option choice only to be used if CW will end if not used. Just going from Beta to Release alone is not such a situation, and even the Clans reaching Terra would not be, as the Inner Sphere would now -all- be able to strike the Clan that so advanced. Taking Terra should not be the only concern for the Clans, as they should also have to worry about -holding- it long-term, and the history of the Inner Sphere does not have to end just because the Clans managed to, for a single hour, hold a single planet. Let things play out as they will, and only use a Reset if there is simply no other way to get one side or the other (All Clans or All Inner Sphere) out of their homeworlds due to overpowering numbers against them.

My own two cents.

Why not make a reset dependent on the same criteria as a planet cap? If one Faction can achieve control of 51% of the map, or if a Clan take Terra, call it done and start the next round. Dragging it on and on after multiple factions are already in the drain benefits nobody in the long term.

[HARDKOR]

Another part of why I feel CW has no point is that the is no win condition. Just flip planets for no reason.

[UniquePilotName]

Lets clarify the "clans" running shod over the IS map. Smoke Jags and Ghost Bears are running basically unopposed, Clan Wolf is barely holding their own ground and Jade Falcon is progressing rather slowly though this is part of the current known cw "politics" this has nothing to do with the CW's set up. The dev's post I read (though I admit it might be rather old) was that they designed it for "roleplay effect"

Which I mean by that, if a team was rabbled together and they get thrown to a 12 man premade it is like one nation throwing whatever they found with two legs and a few guns against a coordinated military unit.

From my understanding the CW map reset being an option to happen is because at the rate the clans are steamrolling through the IS by the time CW is considered finished the clans will own the universe.

The idea I would guess was to have the clans on a slow and steady pace for terra and by production the map will look close to lore's. I have even heard several rumors about there being some special event once all four clans start getting closer to terra

I don't think they would reset them any time soon unless by the time CW is out of beta clans own almost 40% of the map

HARDKOR, on 26 January 2015 - 09:06 AM, said:

Another part of why I feel CW has no point is that the is no win condition. Just flip planets for no reason.

it won't be some quick to achieve win condition to force a reset. the CW map will be a "living map" type of thing where as the game progresses and goes through the different eras you help influence the nation your with. As for benefits, once they flesh out CW more there would be things like production worlds that provide discounts, xp and cb bonus for using faction specific mechs (like Kurita using jenners instead of firestarters), historical battles, events, and the likes. Also yes I understand that some of that is just talk at the moment but it is on the table for things that CW could provide giving it a reason

Edited by UniquePilotName, 26 January 2015 - 09:21 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Lily from animove, on 26 January 2015 - 05:08 AM, said:

my opinion is, after balancing stuff and implementing the rest of CW (especially if they implement logistics) then we should have an reset.

Then we (the Community) should tell PGI to leave CW in Beta until then. Playing it under a "Beta" banner until a full reset is not an issue, well OK for some it seems to be. More Maps and modes, even 2-3 of each will make a huge difference, but it also change the whole complexion of how CW currently operates...

[Nori Silverrage]

I don't have much invested in the current map, but given the changes they are making and will have to make then I see no other option but to reset it.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

I wouldn't be surprised or upset if they reset. I just always assumed that once some value was added to owning a planet they would need to reset.

[Scout Derek]

I'll put this short, Don't really care if they reset CW map. Just an extra extension as of now. Later when it officially comes out of Beta... that's a different story.

[Karl Marlow]

Uite Dauphni, on 26 January 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

Personally, I don't even think a reset makes sense unless one faction is utterly dominating all the others, at which point they can claim to have "won" CW.

That said, I can imagine that if this game hits Steam, it could be nice if all the new people coming in see a fresh map, instead of one that clearly has a lot of history behind it.

I am conflicted on the whole map reset question but part of it is the Bias from Marik. WE've maintained pretty steady borders with Davion and Steiner. WE've had some back and forth and nobody is dominating anything. Everything has been hard fought for.

That being said When we goto steam you are right. We really should have a fresh map. If PGI actually delivers on the changes to CW that Russ is talking about CW would also be a lot different and more fleshed out from what we have now which will change the flow of CW. I also think a map reset would be a good time to introduce the other three clans. I'm not sure how you would introduce those clans in the crazytown we have now anyway.

[Yokaiko]

Heisenbug, on 26 January 2015 - 12:52 AM, said:

It seems that the changes made since CW started have only pushed the team players to evolve and get better, while the average pug team is just stagnating in it's skill level. Thus, many of the matches are more one-sided than ever, and as such the clans are just running ruff-shod over IS territory.

It has to do with the pugs, the average clan pug is FAR AND AWAY in better shape than the IS guys. There are really only 4-5 chassis with very specific builds (in laser vomit or streak).

It has little to do with the mech advantage, the IS has hands down better mechs in pretty much every catagory

The pugs don't use them, you see all SORTS of "what the hell is he thinking" builds.

Heisenbug, on 26 January 2015 - 12:52 AM, said:

I wonder if part of this is because many of the units are only willing to play as clans given the innate superiority of clan mechs (*<- already sighing over the people who will argue this*). Don't get me wrong, the try-hards disproportionately support this game financially and should be given credit for that. But it appears that most of the try-hards prefer to play as clan and so the clans have a superiority in number of teams as well as mech quality.

Get that mech superiority thing out of your head, its not only wrong, its unhealthy.

Heisenbug, on 26 January 2015 - 12:52 AM, said:

Shouldn't we start considering that those playing on IS (vs. clan) units as the ones who are truly engaging in hard-mode of this game (rather than taking an innate advantage and beating up on a bunch of IS pugs)?

Maybe I'm off base, but maybe I'm not...
)

My unit votes on which faction we roll per contract, I have never voted clan, not once. I have two complete drop decks either clan or IS. I do better and have more fun as IS.

[Faith McCarron]

MahKraah, on 26 January 2015 - 09:00 AM, said:

the real reason for witch faction is successfull or witch is not are the big progamer mercunits(bpgm).

I'm not sure what groups you are classifying as "bpgm's", but if you're referring to the megaconglomerate pro teams, I agree. I think one of the worst, if not the worst thing to come out of CW in terms of faction populations are the to-big-to-fail tryhard alliances. I'll use Mercstar Alliance as an example. These groups are literally like 5 or 6 comp teams who play on their own in the comp scene, but have all joined together under 1 CW Tag to ensure that they roflstomp all over the place. The only reason they haven't destroyed CW is because they move around. I don't want the fate of the map to rest on the good will of a few monopolies. Should they decide to take a 30 day contract somewhere, it completely erases everything that everyone on that front has done. And mark my words, if they ever decide NOT to move around, the normal whining about ghost drops and 9S's will be nothing compared to the calls for PGI to go all Teddy Roosevelt on their asses.

[Harathan]

Faith McCarron, on 26 January 2015 - 01:10 PM, said:

The only reason they haven't destroyed CW is because they move around.

I think there's an argument to be made that they already have - I don't think PGI ever even conceived of the possibility of something like MercStar. They can't really stop it (the only way they could would be to impose a player cap on units, and that won't fly) and they really haven't created a buffer for it (contract payment changes are made too slowly, too irregularly to encourage short term contracts and lots of merc/pug movement). If contract payments were automatically based on active player population and able to change in real time, maybe that'd do it, but then again that can be gamed, so maybe not.

Edited by Harathan, 26 January 2015 - 01:32 PM.

[Davers]

Well, the best way to introduce the new Clans would be to have them come in from the South. But I don't think they will do that. Though what some factions will do if they end up with 8 or more fronts, I'm not sure.