144 replies to this topic

[Asakara]

Brody319, on 28 January 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

...

Umm.. Ok. I see your mind is set. Good luck.

Edited by Asakara, 28 January 2015 - 09:44 AM.

[Brody319]

Asakara, on 28 January 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:

Umm.. Ok. I see your mind is set. Good luck.

Its not my mind. its HG's. There is a reason every single Marauder, Warhammer, Archer, ect thread has half its posts just saying "No, Harmony Gold will just sue". If it was as simple as just putting in the Reseen designs PGI could have easily done it by now.

[Asakara]

The art is a no.

The names like Marauder, Archer, Warhammer, etc... are just fine per the settlement doc from FASA which I already linked, which has been my point all along.

[Drake67]

Mike Forst, on 27 January 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:

In my personal opinion as a Mechwarrior fan: if the mech has to look significantly different than the original and have a different name to hide it from the license holders then it's not the original mech in any way. In that case, there's really not much point in spending all this effort on these designs when there are plenty of other ones that can be brought to life without these issues (especially if the license holder gets wise and tries to make a stink about it anyways).

If a deal can be struck in the future, then great. If not, it's best to leave the HG Unseen where they are: as fond memories.

Ok there have been plenty of community driven art for the Marauder, open a contest, have the community vote, narrow it down to one and let Alex put his spin on it. Time and effort solved.

[Brody319]

Drake67, on 28 January 2015 - 10:12 AM, said:

Ok there have been plenty of community driven art for the Marauder, open a contest, have the community vote, narrow it down to one and let Alex put his spin on it. Time and effort solved.

then they ask HG if it passes copy-right test and HG says no regardless.

[Aerik Lornes]

Brody319, on 28 January 2015 - 10:14 AM, said:

then they ask HG if it passes copy-right test and HG says no regardless.

Does anyone know if Project Phoenix (or Randall Bills for that matter) asked HG to "approve" the reseen designs? I suspect they did not for various reasons, but I'm unclear at this point and any further speculation I have would be impacted by the answer to this question.

[Drake67]

Brody319, on 28 January 2015 - 10:14 AM, said:

then they ask HG if it passes copy-right test and HG says no regardless.

Well I for one would welcome the reseen designs regardless of the name. Just keep the same hardpoints. Which PGI has shown to Nerf anyway. Or give variants that don't offer anything different. And I know it isn't LORE based but would go with renaming them just to have the mechs.

[Tombstoner]

Apnu, on 28 January 2015 - 08:19 AM, said:

Those designs are probably fodder for a HG lawsuit. They do look great, I'll admit. HG is probably aware of NGNG, but NGNG is small potatoes, and probably would get away as a non-profit and or fair use parody protections.

In short, IMO, HG litigates as a form of revenue, there's no revenue to generate from NGNG. Whereas PGI is clearly for-profit and litigation could generate revenue for HG and I'm sure they'd strike. PGI's already seen a taste of HG after the teaser video showed a Macross Warhammer. Which looked great, but they weren't aware of the HG history and got a rude education in it. Almost torpedo'd the game.

Part of defending your IP is that it needs to be proactive and absolute beyond a reasonable doubt IMO. NGNG is associated with MWO. HGs lawers must be aware of MWO and friends or what good are they.

Part of the point of copyright is to avoid confusion between products and the perception of predation on someone eles success. If anything the win/win for PGI and HG is to offer cash for the unseen and direct links to macross movies.
people who have never heard of macross might get sucked into it and by the movies/action figures all because of a video game tie in that in essence cost them nothing....

We can see the +/+ side on this but im not sure HG can deem the money worth the effort....

[Bishop Steiner]

Brody319, on 28 January 2015 - 08:26 AM, said:

I believe the heros are technically Grand Dragons.

Nope.

That, they are not.

Aerik Lornes, on 28 January 2015 - 10:48 AM, said:

Does anyone know if Project Phoenix (or Randall Bills for that matter) asked HG to "approve" the reseen designs? I suspect they did not for various reasons, but I'm unclear at this point and any further speculation I have would be impacted by the answer to this question.

not a 100% sure, though even those were taken out of canon and such for a time, probably related to other unseen issues.

[LordSkippy]

Asakara, on 28 January 2015 - 09:51 AM, said:

The art is a no.

The names like Marauder, Archer, Warhammer, etc... are just fine per the settlement doc from FASA which I already linked, which has been my point all along.

You are right. PGI could legally use those names with the redesigned art. Any lawsuit HG could file would ultimately fail.

However, even a baseless lawsuit can still be financially damaging. Lawyers cost money, preparing legal documents cost money, and filing that paperwork costs money. Doesn't do much good to be legally right, if you'll go bankrupt before the case is won.

[Metus regem]

LordSkippy, on 29 January 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

You are right. PGI could legally use those names with the redesigned art. Any lawsuit HG could file would ultimately fail.

However, even a baseless lawsuit can still be financially damaging. Lawyers cost money, preparing legal documents cost money, and filing that paperwork costs money. Doesn't do much good to be legally right, if you'll go bankrupt before the case is won.

Very true, but after the Hasbro incident, I wouldn't be surprised to see HG (Harmony Gold) be a little bit more cautious... I mean Grumman Aerospace could go after them for unlicenced use of their aircraft the F-14, they do look a lot like the VF-1 in jet mode after all....

[LordSkippy]

Metus regem, on 29 January 2015 - 05:50 AM, said:

after the Hasbro incident, I wouldn't be surprised to see HG (Harmony Gold) be a little bit more cautious...

But would you bet the company on it?

[Sam Slade]

Atlasian, on 26 January 2015 - 09:49 PM, said:

My guess: Once a lawsuit is raised against PGI for making the Warhammer and Marauder in MWO, irregardless of whether their designs are close to the Macross design or not, PGI has no choice but to counter the lawsuit. This cost money and time, not really worth it for them.

They are other games out there that are using the designs and they will be quick to raise against the move to make Macross Mechs alive in Battletech/Mechwarrior again.

HG would have to press their suit in Canada and would probably find a civil suit under common law less then palatable; further, based on the other macros designs(and it is the MACROSS designs they own) HG should be able to(and to avoid the appearance of malicious/frivolous legal action exclusively targeting MWO would have to) sue just about every iteration of 'mecha' that features gun armed biped robots(Robocop? Heavy Gear? Titanfall?). Intellectual Property civil suits are not a matter of super lawyering everyone to death under common law... PGI could just take it before a magistrate and parade a plethora of mecha through the room... this whole thing is just absurd.

I'd not be at all surprised if the Reseen pack comes out with the Steam launch... that would be the smart thing to do(Valve lawyers? No thank you very much).

[Wesxander]

I would like to see the marauder but first off would love to see a warhammer, and then the hero mech warhammer for the Black Widow.

Personal favorite from 3025 was the crusader a mech with srm launchers on it's legs of all places....

[Metus regem]

LordSkippy, on 29 January 2015 - 06:32 AM, said:

But would you bet the company on it?

If I had deep enough pockets, yes. But considering that HG is more in the realtor business these days, in California, I know that I would need extremely deep pockets for it, before I would commit to a gable like that... then again I like to have all of my bases covered.

[LordSkippy]

Metus regem, on 29 January 2015 - 09:23 AM, said:

If I had deep enough pockets, yes. But considering that HG is more in the realtor business these days, in California, I know that I would need extremely deep pockets for it, before I would commit to a gable like that... then again I like to have all of my bases covered.

I think if PGI had Blizzard level of resources, we'd have our reseen design Marauders and Warhammers. However, since PGI has, well, PGI level of resources, they are wisely keeping HG a wide berth.

[Metus regem]

LordSkippy, on 29 January 2015 - 09:43 AM, said:

I think if PGI had Blizzard level of resources, we'd have our reseen design Marauders and Warhammers. However, since PGI has, well, PGI level of resources, they are wisely keeping HG a wide berth.

And that is the the best plan I think they can take. If they can figure out a work around (IE something with the right tonnage and hard point lay out) I'd be game for those mechs.

[Keira RAVEN McKenna]

I'm sorry but PGI wont go there. Its not in their interests to gamble the financial viability of their small self created company and their onw mental wellbeing against the potential profits (which given the ACTUAL small niche player size in MWO wont be that big) that could be made introducing these designs.

I work in Marketting and to has the management of a business risk throwing everything away in litigation costs in order to please a small group of customers who are aware of the older BT history and machines would be disheartening and alraming as an employee OR a share holder.

Sorry team. Its really not worth it.

[Asakara]

LordSkippy, on 29 January 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

You are right. PGI could legally use those names with the redesigned art. Any lawsuit HG could file would ultimately fail.

However, even a baseless lawsuit can still be financially damaging. Lawyers cost money, preparing legal documents cost money, and filing that paperwork costs money. Doesn't do much good to be legally right, if you'll go bankrupt before the case is won.

It can be, though in some cases the winning side can counter-sue for legal fees. Playmates tried this against FASA but the judge decided that FASA did not need to pay the Playmates legal team for their time. If HG filed a frivolous lawsuit against PGI and lost they may end up paying all those PGI lawyers for their time rather than PGI itself.

From the case:
"In 1996, Judge Ruben Castillo found "that FASA has established certain protectible (sic) copyright and trademark rights but has failed to prove any facts which establish liability on the part of Playmates." But feeling they brought the case in good faith, Castillo declined to force FASA to pay Playmates's legal bills."

Edited by Asakara, 03 February 2015 - 07:55 PM.

[Zolaz]

Id probably buy some Reseen mechs.