217 replies to this topic

[wanderer]

Bishop Steiner, on 26 January 2015 - 08:09 PM, said:

No the joke, as mentioned is that had you had your way, it never would have been crowdfunded at all.

But keep deluding yourself into thinking otherwise.

The Urbanmech hit it's crowdfunding before any engine cap whatsoever was announced.

(edit note: In fact, it was official six hours before Russ mentioned anything specific, most notably the tweet in the OP.)

Edited by wanderer, 26 January 2015 - 08:13 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

wanderer, on 26 January 2015 - 08:10 PM, said:

The Urbanmech hit it's crowdfunding before any engine cap whatsoever was announced.

Russ had stated has probably ranges the day after the campaign started. Read through the forums. You and a handful of people asked for super slow Urbies, almost every other post was for 180-210 range, or even faster.

[Brody319]

Oh my god, this is fantastic Russ Thank you.

180 is perfect, but 200 is even better because that gives it a bit more options.

also "Like every other light" is kinda WRONG because most lights run +130 pretweak, meaning that is the norm, this urbie runs slow even with the highest engine selection.

[luxebo]

wanderer, on 26 January 2015 - 07:53 PM, said:

Let's try it this way.

Say they, oh, gave the Hunchback a new engine cap of 325 instead of 275. Do you think they'd tweak it's quirks down a bit given that it can hit significantly higher top speeds?

Of course. Speed is considered a huge perk in MWO, We used to have Fastbacks before engine limits, remember? Higher speeds were considered such a boon that PGI put in serious limitations to prevent them (laser Awesomes, too.). Well, giving an Urbanmech triple it's original engine rating as a cap- or perhaps more - is a huge amount of potential improvement elsewhere that's going to go into a middling-speed light. Sure, I can keep the old 60. I'm still out whatever I would have gotten instead of the 180+ engine cap statwise.

Because other people have a broader option, my option (waddling turret-o-death) becomes weakened, and for good measure, most of what could go on a 180+ engine Urbanmech will work just as well or better on a Spider or Firestarter.

If Hunchbacks got a bigger engine limit, they wouldn't lower quirk effects. Otherwise everyone will be using 6 SPL hunchbacks that are bigger CN9-Ds. How many CN9-Ds run XL390? Very few because the D has it's spammy shotgunning. Going 390 means quick deaths, and maybe MGs and SPLs. I usually run an STD engine just as slow as the Hunchies if not slower.

And if that speed is life, then guess what, every single meta light mech will be a Spider 5V. Is that the case now? Nope! Jenners get that extra capability to 300, but most prefer the 295, same as other lights.

Speed =\= quirks. Period. You will get the same quirks with that decent engine limit. Do you want the Urbanmech to get destroyed with Locusts running the same UAC5/AC10/LBX10 loadout? Because this conversation sounds a hell of a lot like this. And no this isn't closed beta; it's been 2-3 years now from then, and engine limits are here to stay. You want speed, go put your MGs on. You want to go slow go ahead and put AC20 on it, sure. You sure as hell won't be going 125 kph with an AC20.

@Brody, max give or take is about 120 iirc for XL 200, so that means it sorta is when you think of it. But most will put on AC20 and sunglasses I'm sure.

[FupDup]

I'm going to shamelessly bump my idea of the +50% (or more) ballistic ammo quirk. I want the dakka loadouts to rival or surpass my projected "meta" loadout of 2 ERLL + 4 MGs. Pretty pls...

[Bobzilla]

If it only kinda looks like a duck, and doesn't walk like a duck, it's a duck.

That's how that saying goes right?

So it's not what the fan boys wanted, and it's gonna be pretty terrible to everyone else.

Hmmm, that should be the new tagline for MWO.

Edited by Bobzilla, 26 January 2015 - 08:26 PM.

[Matthew Ace]

I think people are blowing the issue up too much. Besides the crowdfunding thing, I'm willing to bet that the quirks would be done in such a way that it would make running a multitude of smaller weapons more mediocre than if configured closer to being centred around a large ballistic weapon. The people who run the faster engine will be better off with another mech.

Edited by Matthew Ace, 26 January 2015 - 08:29 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Matthew Ace, on 26 January 2015 - 08:28 PM, said:

I think people are blowing the issue up too much. Besides the crowdfunding thing, I'm willing to bet that the quirks would be done in such a way that it would make running a multitude of smaller weapons more mediocre than if configured closer to being centred around a large ballistic weapon. The people who run the faster engine will be better off with another mech.

Considering that Russ has been listening and most quirks of late (a few exceptions out there) have been based around the stock weapons, I believe you are correct. YOu can run Mediums Lasers and Machine guns, but those ac10 cooldown quirks aren't going to be very useful for those folks.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

I'm hoping it's max at 180 for the 30 tonner for 97 (106 tweak) at this point.

I can live with such a engine max. I personally have no problem running Lights that slow anyway, play to their strengths and stick with bigger mechs.

Sometimes you get unlucky, but who doesn't in this game?

[Alistair Winter]

I don't mind this. As long as the people who want to drive slow get to drive slow, I'm not too bothered if some people want to slap some MGs and lasers on it and go fast.

The thing is, I expect the Urbanmech to rely purely on LB10X, AC10 or AC20 quirks. Cooldown, range, projectile speed and heat bonus. If you decide to put the biggest engine on the Urbanmech, you're basically losing all the quirks and you end up with a bad copy of other light mechs. Anything you can do with the XL180 or XL210 Urbanmech, you can do better with another light mech. So who would want to use that build?

It's similar to the Centurion with an XL390 max engine rating. Who ever uses an XL390 on a Centurion? Nobody, because you have no room left for weapons and you end up as a big, clumsy light mech with less firepower than a Firestarter.

EDIT: If PGI goes ahead and gives the Urbanmech crazy medium laser quirks, or even large laser quirks, then I'll be disappoint. Then we'll have a new TDR-9S, a warped parody of the original mech. Imagine Urbanmech snipers with 3 quirked large lasers. That would be a sad day for me.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 26 January 2015 - 08:42 PM.

[Tarogato]

Here's the deal, I don't think many people have theory crafted this out yet.

The Urbanmech WILL have significant quirks for its stock weapon system.

AC/20 Urbie with at least 50% cooldown quirk and maybe even velocity and range? The fastest engine you could probably fit in that is an XL80 (~50kph)

Here is an approximation on Smurfy: ANANSI (AC/20)
(I used an AC/10 because the actuators are in the way. I added a medium laser and two AMS to make up for the missing 2 tons and 3 slots that an AC/20 would use. Using an XL100, you'd need to go down an extra 0.5 tons to be able to fit in the last heatsink, which is approximately an XL80)

AC/10 Urbie, again, probably with massive 50% or similar cooldown or other quirks that scream (TAKE ME, I'M VALUABLE!) you'd be forced to take roughly an XL145 (86kph)
ANANSI (AC/10)

LBX/10 Urbie, similar quirks, about XL170 (101kph)
ANANSI (LBX/10)

---

Those are all with only 2 tons of ammo and no backup weapons. In order to pack more ammo or bring a laser or two, you'd need to drop a few more engine ratings.

Add to that the fact that the Urbie will probably NOT be XL-friendly, and you'll be pressured into taking a STD engine (even slower), making the quirks all the more essential.

Sure, if you want to run a mini laser vomit Urbie that hits 125kph you can, but you're missing out on the quirks and you're probably running an XL (which again, IMO, won't, or at least realistically shouldn't be very safe an on Urbie)

---

PS. I really like that idea for 2x ammo per ton quirk, that'll really help. =]

[Brody319]

Someone should throw in a good word to Russ about my Zaku Urbie. Since I don't have a Tweeter.

[Zordicron]

I dunno, I guess i dont care that much if it moves faster or not. Really, if you cant do at least 80KPH, you might as well be running 60kph they way matches go in this game. You either move it, or dont.

IMO, I would have loved to see a 75% cooldown on ac10 quirk, just so i could move into the open, and then fire my ac10 MG while spinning like qa top spewing shells in all directions with the 360 torso degree it will get. blam blam blam blam blam blam 360 ac10 mayhem!

but i could see how too many would gripe about slower then king crab speed.

[Karl Marlow]

wanderer, on 26 January 2015 - 06:08 PM, said:

Whelp, they went ahead and did it. They made the slowest 'Mech in Battletech into:



That's right, kids. 180+ engine rating, meaning it's Kit Fox speed or better.

For a 'Mech that defines "slow". That could have been built to be the loveable, tottering trashcan we expected and quirked up to be an alternative to the usual.

Nope. We're gonna get a 'Mech that neatly covers the same space as the Spider. Only clumsier.

PGI, I am seriously disappoint. 125 would have been plenty. You've just managed the first 'Mech to be able to -triple- it's stock engine rating. Excellent timing on bringing it up after the wonderful "it's official!" announcement.

There is no rule that says you have to upgrade yoru engine.

[wanderer]

ThomasMarik, on 26 January 2015 - 10:15 PM, said:

There is no rule that says you have to upgrade yoru engine.

There are, however quirk levels based on how much your 'Mech already has available even if you don't use it- such as jump jets or an engine rating that exceeds the baseline.

(Mind you, even I thought a cap of 85 was madness, but I wasn't thinking of anything bigger than 125- and certainly not 175+.)

Edited by wanderer, 26 January 2015 - 10:18 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

UrbanMech has no ECM or CERML or CSRM or 3xCAMS or ClanXL


Don't say it's "like a KitFox..."






KitFoxes wish they were Urbies.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 26 January 2015 - 10:20 PM.

[IronLichRich]

So, I just had a thought.

What if, instead of griping about how the urbanmech is "RUINED FOREVERZ!!!!"

We wait until the quirks are announced and have some more information before we freak out.

[Karl Marlow]

IronLichRich, on 26 January 2015 - 10:21 PM, said:

So, I just had a thought.

What if, instead of griping about how the urbanmech is "RUINED FOREVERZ!!!!"

We wait until the quirks are announced and have some more information before we freak out.

I fail to see the entertainment factor in patience.

[Praehotec8]

wanderer, on 26 January 2015 - 10:18 PM, said:

There are, however quirk levels based on how much your 'Mech already has available even if you don't use it- such as jump jets or an engine rating that exceeds the baseline.

(Mind you, even I thought a cap of 85 was madness, but I wasn't thinking of anything bigger than 125- and certainly not 175+.)

No offense, but I don't think it was ever going to be a "good" mech regardless of buffs, quirks, or even incredible styling. I think you're deluding yourself that even ridiculous stupid quirks would save a light mech going 32kph. Even if it had double the durability of a Dire Wolf, and three times the firing rate quirks of the Thunderbolt, it would still be bad. Even the Dire Wolf at 53kph is often left strung out alone and easy pickings, and a light would be even worse.

At least this way people that ordered it can have options to do with it as they please, and it will still undoubtedly get quirks. Again, I think you're really not being realistic about what would be feasible within this game as far as adding a 32kph light.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

The vitriolic, abject, and completely unfettered BITCHING going on about this 'Mech is insanely ridiculous.

This reminds me that people aren't complaining about the fact there are several mechs in this game that don't necessarily abide by lore themselves. Namely some ECM mechs.

For balance, core rule ignore.

If you want your trashcan to be a 30-60kph useless waste of space for your team, then by all means equip it as such. In the mean time, let everyone else do what they want with it.

*slams door on the way out*