217 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

occusoj, on 27 January 2015 - 12:09 PM, said:

PGI say a lot of things. Pressing F4 shows the value of their word and what the people paying for it achieved.
Of course that was nothing but IGP fault, what else.

Urbie needs to be somewhat tough, not fast.
If it can go as fast as a slow medium and get near its durability, fine. Thats an Urban mech.
No mega-quirkening. Not for speed, not for weapons. Its a slow mech that has good armor for its weight and packs a big gun that can deal deal nice PPFLD damage with the limited ammo it has.
You wanted a mech with those limitations, you should get it and not shop for buffs like its a candy store.


Ordering mech stats based on money paid by a small group of players is a dangerous road to go on.
But then, money makes the world go round, doesnt it?

How much do you think a decent Pillager would cost us? With LongTom?
Of course exclusive to founders.

If they ask us to fund it, yup. We get some say. You don't want it that way, buy in, and have some say.

Welcome to the nature and danger of crowdfunding. The obvious answer, is not to crowdfund, but just release like they always have, and then BAM, no one gets any say. Buy it or don't.

But once the crowdfunded door is open? Those who pay, got say.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 27 January 2015 - 12:14 PM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

CygnusX7, on 27 January 2015 - 11:58 AM, said:

Maybe it could only move at 32kph because it's leg braces were still on. Let's break those chains!

Run Urbie! Run!

[Bigbacon]

they should make the engine really slow anyway and quirk the crap out of it for the giggle factor. Yea you go 32kph but you shoot your AC10 like an AC2

[Bishop Steiner]

Aerik Lornes, on 27 January 2015 - 12:10 PM, said:

I'd wear it proudly, but I think you are making the deal too good. Getting an "***hat" label from you is a much greater honor than being labeled a grognard.

but you don't even know what the "***" stands for. WHo knew FBI hats would be so popular?

[Joseph Mallan]

occusoj, on 27 January 2015 - 12:09 PM, said:

Ordering mech stats based on money paid by a small group of players is a dangerous road to go on.
But then, money makes the world go round, doesnt it?

How much do you think a decent Pillager would cost us? With LongTom?
Of course exclusive to founders.

Arrow4 for the win and the variant already exists! So long as Mine come out of the St Ives Compact I'd get 1 or 4.

Bishop Steiner, on 27 January 2015 - 12:13 PM, said:

but you don't even know what the "***" stands for. WHo knew FBI hats would be so popular?

Every knows. Be My Lil General!
*Brigadier
**Major
***Lieutenant
****General

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 27 January 2015 - 12:16 PM.

[wanderer]

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Arrow4 for the win and the variant already exists!

You have no idea how much adding Arrow IV's and removing airstrikes/arty strikes would make me a happy man.

You want artillery? Stick it on the Catapult and drop.

[CygnusX7]

MeiSooHaityu, on 27 January 2015 - 12:11 PM, said:

Maybe it could only move at 32kph because it's leg braces were still on. Let's break those chains!

Run Urbie! Run!

[Roadkill]

wanderer, on 27 January 2015 - 10:28 AM, said:

So the King of Slow's megaquirk is...not being slow.

That makes so much sense after I headdesk a few dozen times, but I lose that feeling once the concussion heals up a bit.

It makes the same sense has half the other quirks out there. TDR-9S much?

Quirks make no sense.

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Considering that's what Urbies are for in TT? Yes. They're the little walking bunker that generally lasts long enough to burp out it's big gun's worth of ammo and then either dies or retreats. Given the heavier armor and relatively limited ammo, why yes, being able to do the same in MWO is precisely what I expected. Being able to burp out AC shells like the obviously superior Dragon or Hunchback-4G? Yep.

No, not at all. You miss the point. An AC/10 is not a rapid-fire weapon. By quirking it +50% you've changed it into something else. Then using that something else on an Urbie is no different than making the Urbie something else in the first place.

The kind of quirks necessary to make the Urbie viable make it, practically by definition, something else. It doesn't matter which quirks you give it, if you're a Lore Purist the resultant Mech is not the Mech you started with. It doesn't matter whether it's faster or faster firing, it isn't the same. And either change is equally good (or bad). More speed, though, makes for a more viable Mech than faster firing, so that's the change that makes the most sense.

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A light, slow, well-armored 'Mech that's made to ambush things, riddle them with it's AC and last just long enough to empty the clip?

Sounds exactly like an Urbie to me. We're getting a wannaUrbie instead.

Sounds like some strange machine gun armed Mech to me, not an Urbie. An Urbie is supposed to be slower than other lights but have a big cannon. What you're talking about has some weird AC/2 that does AC/10 damage. That's not an Urbie, that's some wannaUrbie.

Your opinion on what makes an Urbie is no more valid than anyone else's. The difference is that the Mech you want isn't viable in MWO, while the Mech that most of the rest of us want would be.

MWO is all about compromises in the name of game balance. I really wish that my Clan Mechs were 50% more powerful than your IS Mechs like they're supposed to be, but I acknowledge that that wouldn't make for a very good game because it wouldn't be balanced.

Your slow Urbie would suck. It wouldn't be viable. The situations in which the Urbie is useful in TT don't exist in MWO, so the Urbie has to change in order to make sense in MWO terms. If they make the Urbie you're asking for, I'll be getting a refund because it wouldn't be playable.

[wanderer]

With the engine cap so high, it feels like PGI did this instead:

[occusoj]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 January 2015 - 12:15 PM, said:

Arrow4 for the win and the variant already exists! So long as Mine come out of the St Ives Compact I'd get 1 or 4.

Oh yes, the Arrow IV. Id take some for my Cats too.

[Bishop Steiner]

wanderer, on 27 January 2015 - 12:32 PM, said:

With the engine cap so high, it feels like PGI did this instead:

I'd pay for those JJs....

[Utilyan]

Table top.....


Can I put away my 12 ton ac cannon.......and strap 8 medium lasers? 4 more heat sinks? or how bout 24 machine guns?

There is TRADE OFFS. If urbie can't go fast....fine. I really wanted a urbie with 8 machine guns, 4 on each arm.



I like the theme of the Tank fighting light. ROLE WARFARE. Urbie is not the scout sounds good to me.


I'm hearing a bunch of scout pilots complain that urbanmech will be a horrible scout......GOOD!



I'm more for urbanmech to be fed to the sharks. no quirks, fastest engine 77.02 kph (MechWarrior IV).

TRADE OFF: Like previous games SMALLER-height then Commando packs more weapons then armor then other lights.



Compared to lights and their "role". Firestarters are scouts with flamers, lol. Jenners are like light calvary.



Panthers vs Urbanmechs should be a thing. The slow combat light has never arrived on the field and it needs to now. I'm all for these mechs not being scouts. Even if these mechs turn out to be cannon fodder I want to see that. (even tho panther gonna have a 250 max engine in it lol )

You meta zombies and try hards took the panther......Leave my Urbanmech alone.

[wanderer]

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No, not at all. You miss the point. An AC/10 is not a rapid-fire weapon. By quirking it +50% you've changed it into something else. Then using that something else on an Urbie is no different than making the Urbie something else in the first place.

The kind of quirks necessary to make the Urbie viable make it, practically by definition, something else. It doesn't matter which quirks you give it, if you're a Lore Purist the resultant Mech is not the Mech you started with. It doesn't matter whether it's faster or faster firing, it isn't the same. And either change is equally good (or bad). More speed, though, makes for a more viable Mech than faster firing, so that's the change that makes the most sense.

Except I'm not a "lore purist". I want the spirit of the 'Mech, not the rote definition.

An Urbanmech is a very slow light with a big, effective ballistic gun (at least till the 3080's) in TT.

A 'Mech topping out at 75kph would be "very slow" for an MWO light. An effective ballistic weapon 'Mech in MWO is quirked heavily for said weapons. Thus, for an MWO Urbie I ask for just that.

[Brody319]

wanderer, on 27 January 2015 - 12:40 PM, said:

Except I'm not a "lore purist". I want the spirit of the 'Mech, not the rote definition.

An Urbanmech is a very slow light with a big, effective ballistic gun (at least till the 3080's) in TT.

A 'Mech topping out at 75kph would be "very slow" for an MWO light. An effective ballistic weapon 'Mech in MWO is quirked heavily for said weapons. Thus, for an MWO Urbie I ask for just that.

Spirit of the mech is a small mech, with a giant gun, that ambushes people. something you can do BETTER if you got FASTER.

but this argument is pointless, Russ already confirmed a minimum of 180 for the max engine. so

[Roadkill]

wanderer, on 27 January 2015 - 11:29 AM, said:

The faster an Urbie can be, the weaker it's quirks that would cover it for being slow.

As Bishop pointed out, a stock speed Urbanmech would not even be Tier 5. Or 6, or 7, or 8. A stock speed Urbanmech would be in the Tier 10 range if it existed. That's how bad it would suck.

The point of speeding it up is to bring it up to Tier 5 so that it can then receive Tier 5 quirks.

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Let's note that the Thunderbolt-9S was quirked from a Tier 5 to one of the best IS heavies in the game. And if the base Urbie was that bad, it darn well could be the first true Tier 6. Nothing saying you can't go lower.

True, at least in theory. But until PGI admits as much I'm going to believe that T5 is the worst and that the Urbie needs to be brought up to T5 in order to receive the quirks needed to make it viable.

It's still going to be the slowest IS light. And it's not going to mount Clan firepower. It's going to be the worst light in the game even with a 200-210 engine cap.

wanderer, on 27 January 2015 - 12:19 PM, said:

You have no idea how much adding Arrow IV's and removing airstrikes/arty strikes would make me a happy man.

You want artillery? Stick it on the Catapult and drop.

And Long Toms. Add those along with Arrow IV, then get rid of air strikes and arty strikes.

[Roadkill]

wanderer, on 27 January 2015 - 12:40 PM, said:

Except I'm not a "lore purist". I want the spirit of the 'Mech, not the rote definition.

An Urbanmech is a very slow light with a big, effective ballistic gun (at least till the 3080's) in TT.

A 'Mech topping out at 75kph would be "very slow" for an MWO light. An effective ballistic weapon 'Mech in MWO is quirked heavily for said weapons. Thus, for an MWO Urbie I ask for just that.

The problem is that the Urbie's environment (cities) doesn't exist in MWO. Even the Mining Colony is more open that a TT city environment where the Urbie is designed to fight. The Urbie that you envision would not be viable in MWO.

But I'll stop arguing with you, as our difference is easily defined: you have no problem quirking the Urbie's weapons into something new and improved, while I have no problem quirking the Urbie's speed into something new and improved. You see my idea as "not an Urbie" and I see your idea s "not viable." We just have different priorities, and that's okay.

[MeiSooHaityu]

CygnusX7, on 27 January 2015 - 12:30 PM, said:

OMG! Too funny! Lol

[wanderer]

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And Long Toms. Add those along with Arrow IV, then get rid of air strikes and arty strikes.

Let's just note that means LT artillery cannons, not a full-on LT. One's a ballistic-arc weapon ala the MW4 gun that fits on a 'Mech, the second is a weapon massive enough to fire across the equivalent of multiple MWO maps.

Oh, and there's an Urbanmech variant with an Arrow IV launcher, just to stay on topic!

[Aerik Lornes]

Roadkill, on 27 January 2015 - 12:31 PM, said:

...
No, not at all. You miss the point. An AC/10 is not a rapid-fire weapon. By quirking it +50% you've changed it into something else. Then using that something else on an Urbie is no different than making the Urbie something else in the first place.

The kind of quirks necessary to make the Urbie viable make it, practically by definition, something else. It doesn't matter which quirks you give it, if you're a Lore Purist the resultant Mech is not the Mech you started with. It doesn't matter whether it's faster or faster firing, it isn't the same. And either change is equally good (or bad). More speed, though, makes for a more viable Mech than faster firing, so that's the change that makes the most sense.
...

"An Autocannon is a type of rapid-firing, auto-loading direct-fire ballistic weapon, firing HEAP (High-Explosive Armor-Piercing) or kinetic rounds at targets in bursts. It is, basically, a giant "machine gun" that fires predominantly cased explosive shells though models firing saboted high velocity kinetic energy penetrators or caseless ordnance do exist. "

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Autocannon

Faster-firing would be totally within the lore. Though that's not how PGI implemented them.

I think that slow lights with big guns are more viable than some people think, but I'll freely admit I'm probably not the pilot to prove it.

As for your Clans, while I personally hate everything clans in the universe of Battletech, I think drop size (by some sort of BV) would have been a better way to balance them than nerfing the crap out of them. I do think Clans belong in the game, but I'd still love a 3025 only mode*

*I'm not just a TT grognard, I'm a 3025 TT grognard by preference.

[SpeedingBus]

Oh gee who would of guessed PGI couldn't balance a mech that is a complete joke and in my opinion shouldn't of been made in first place because its just another cash grab.