51 replies to this topic

[Ilithi Dragon]

Stingr4y is the great peacemaker of the FWLM. That is why he is our Captain-General.

[Stingr4y]

Ilithi Dragon, on 30 January 2015 - 09:01 AM, said:

Stingr4y is the great peacemaker of the FWLM. That is why he is our Captain-General.

[Roadbeer]

Juvat, on 30 January 2015 - 07:08 AM, said:

Last time I checked it was agreements between player units that were in place. If there was a cease-fire between an entire faction and another PGI would not make those planets eligible for attack. Sorry to burst bubbles here but the player units do not govern their factions... as much as they would like to think they do. Additionally, as I have said to others privately, when "you" pay every cent of what I have paid into this game to me then "you" can dictate to me what I will do with my hard earned money. Until then "you" spend "yours" how "you" like and I will do the same. Plus we are in Beta for crying out loud... why not just rip it up and see what this CW can do? It's all going to be reset anyways This is a game of big stompy robot fighting... just have fun with it! Just my two cents...

There isn't a thing here I disagree with, and in many games over my life I have actually said "When you pay my monthly fee, you can tell me how to play my character", I completely understand and support your argument.

Having said that.

Yes, it's true that PGI has not implemented a way for Factions to create or support treaties, NAPs, Cease Fires, etc. so collections of players have taken it upon themselves to do it 'outside' the game. The same can be said for the Leagues, VoIP, faction/unit communication or any of the dozen+ other things that the players of MWO have taken upon themselves to pick up the slack where PGI has fallen short. These players are not "Faction (X)", but they have pulled together to try to further the interests if the faction they are loyal to in order for it to succeed. Are they THE faction? No. Are they playing as loyalists and collectively acting in the best interest of the faction? Yes.

Finding the current state of a faction in relation to its neighbors takes literally 5 minutes of browsing the forums here (or the factions hub. Yes, every faction has one by now). Some seem to be hourly, like the CW/CGB border. Some have been in place since the beginning of CW, like Marik/Liao.

Again, it is up to you as a player/merc unit to decide if you are going to join in the efforts of those who "represent" the faction, or to do your own thing, and I fully support that. But it's a little disingenuous to come to the forum asking where to check in at, completely fail to do so, then when called out on actions that run contrary to the interests of those who "represent" the faction to say "I've paid for the right to do what I want".

Yes, you have "paid" for that right, and we've "paid" for the right to not support you in your effort, to say what we want about your actions, and to shun you in the future when you decide to "come visit" the faction.

So in closing. While I support your position that you're able to play the game however you want as long as it's in the CoC/ToS, and those of us who have chosen to "represent" have absolutely no say in the matter what-so-ever, I would caution you to remember that this is BETA. Should PGI decide to give those who "represent" a faction to have some say in the future about who gets merc contracts or what they get paid, your actions now may impact your options of who you play for/with in the future.

Just sayin'

[Juvat]

Roadbeer,
I agree with what you are saying for the most part but disagree on one point: no player/unit should be given control of a faction. That will break the game in ways which will effectively kill this game. We are dancing around two points here though. 1.) there are groups within each faction that take their RP very seriously to include diplomacy (which can be fun in it;s own right), and 2.) those who see the overall faction as the governing force behind their actions (i.e. the PL attacking Ingersol when a contract presented by the NPC FWL faction determined it to be a legitimate target in their eyes. Who is to say what we were doing was against the faction? According to my LP meter every action I've done in CW was for the benefit of the FWL regardless of what the target was of my actions. If it was a unit we were contracted to and we disobeyed that is one thing. But to say we were acting outside of the confines of our contract doesn't add up when my c-bill and loyalty point totals say otherwise. We did not agree to any part of a cease-fire that was arranged between units within a faction nor were we asked about it when this was negotiated. To say that 4 or 5 units "represent" an entire faction is false as well. They may "represent" in some cases a large portion of it but not one single entity outside of PGI is the true representative. Bringing up the point about this being Beta we should be seeing how every aspect of it works and how it doesn't so that when the final product hits the live servers there is one in which we all can enjoy. There are many things wrong with CW in my opinion and there being no scaled system of payment or even proper usage and rewards for Merc units is one of the many I have noted. However, that in and of itself is a pandora's box because then it begs the question of who determines whether a merc unit is operating under proper auspices or not? And how do you keep personal animosities that exist out of the equation to ensure fairness? Why are mercs even allowed to work for the Clans when they were considered an abomination by the Clans? What about the Draconis Combine's long-standing "death to mercenaries" policy? Why isn't it 12v10 in IS vs. Clan drops? There are a plethora of other questions that are begging for an answer for the enthusiasts out there like me. I could go on and on but then we run into a TL:DR situation LOL I also do not speak for the entire PL but was expressing my own personal opinions. I've been involved with MWO for a very long time now and feel I have earned my right to speak my peace just as you have. We have a council that governs our community and as such we abide by the decisions they make. As for what happened before last Friday I cannot speak for any of it as I was on vacation from mid-December until then and have only recently been back and involved in things. Always appreciate your input though as you put a lot of thought into your posts.

[RayRazor]

To disregard what the majority within a faction have agreed upon is what you're (PL) being called out on...

Having said that and reading your replies you're being deliberately obtuse

You're entitled to have fun and play the game as you and your unit see fit, that's not in dispute, it's your reaction and replies that frame the intent and path you and your unit have chosen regardless of what you state here.. actions always will speak 'louder' than your words

Why come here to 'defend' your activity that goes against the will and activity of the majority?

It's clear you have ulterior motives, just own it and move on... it's not like you're doing yourself nor your unit any favors here with your replies...

[Piddles]

RayRazor, on 30 January 2015 - 01:09 PM, said:

To disregard what the majority within a faction have agreed upon is what you're (PL) being called out on...

Having said that and reading your replies you're being deliberately obtuse

You're entitled to have fun and play the game as you and your unit see fit, that's not in dispute, it's your reaction and replies that frame the intent and path you and your unit have chosen regardless of what you state here.. actions always will speak 'louder' than your words

Why come here to 'defend' your activity that goes against the will and activity of the majority?

It's clear you have ulterior motives, just own it and move on... it's not like you're doing yourself nor your unit any favors here with your replies...

Actually, I've been spending my time here on the forums with this instead of "messing" with "your" cw and waiting for our contract to expire
I fully realize nothing either of us say will convince the other of our intentions or feelings, but I have enjoyed the conversation

Edited by Piddles, 30 January 2015 - 01:31 PM.

[RayRazor]

Piddles, on 30 January 2015 - 01:31 PM, said:

Actually, I've been spending my time here on the forums with this instead of "messing" with "your" cw and waiting for our contract to expire
I fully realize nothing either of us say will convince the other of our intentions or feelings, but I have enjoyed the conversation

Yeah... Sure... Door.. backside.. laters

[Molossian Dog]

Juvat, on 30 January 2015 - 10:35 AM, said:

...

The thing what probably made so many of us irritated is that your leadership signaled it wanted to join in the "RP" part. It asked where "we" (meaning the FWL players since the CW algorithm probably doesn´t read the boards) wanted them.

If you were some guys who wouldn´t even read the forums most people would shrug, mumble something along the lines of "Pugs gonna be pugs" and leave it at that.

But asking first how you can be of assistance and then acting completely against "our" interest left not a few quite salty.
And then doing it again.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 30 January 2015 - 05:36 PM.

[Kjudoon]

I guess we can chalk this up to some kids just won't play well with others and some don't know the difference between good and bad attention.

And unless PGI starts developing social controls, it playground rules. Don't play the same game and do so nicely, nobody is gonna play with you.

[seija]

Arnold J Rimmer, on 27 January 2015 - 06:51 AM, said:

No qualm with them moving around. Mercs gonna merc. Units should still abide by ceasefires agreed upon by existing members of the faction they join, however.

I could not disagree more, because several Units decide not to attack one another does not mean that the Faction Leader called a cease fire. Unit Politicking =/= Faction Politicking

[Piddles]

Molossian Dog, on 30 January 2015 - 05:35 PM, said:

The thing what probably made so many of us irritated is that your leadership signaled it wanted to join in the "RP" part. It asked where "we" (meaning the FWL players since the CW algorithm probably doesn´t read the boards) wanted them.

If you were some guys who wouldn´t even read the forums most people would shrug, mumble something along the lines of "Pugs gonna be pugs" and leave it at that.

But asking first how you can be of assistance and then acting completely against "our" interest left not a few quite salty.
And then doing it again.

The thing that made us so irritated was we reached out to contact your leadership and were ignored. I received a response today and now I know that the main individual managing that for Marik was unfortunately away the week we decided to join y'all, bad luck I guess. I think it could've been a much better experience for us all otherwise. I'd say i'm sorry that the 2 or 3 casual drops we did against Ingersoll (vs the week of other CW games we did for Marik - I went from 0 LP to rank 6 myself) were such a hindrance to what you were trying to accomplish, but we both know that's a ridiculous statement on a couple levels. I've got no personal hard feelings about it though, and I look to seeing y'all on the front for some good fights

[Molossian Dog]

In principle you are absolutely right.

In practice the very forum you were asking for instructions had several threads about the Marik/Liao ceasefire.

Probably a mix of bad luck and miscommunication. Several times. If you want advice: Appoint a liason.

In the end it matters not. What is done is done. Now go and defend the Dave. See you on Sarna.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 31 January 2015 - 06:33 AM.