50 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

So far my best WIn in a Commando has been 60K with an average around 22K. can't complain with how bad I play in one.

[L3mming2]

the grind is just stupid,

example; i want to master a dire wale, need to buy 3...

a i need to grind 130 hours to afford the chassi's not even the gear and modules included....

(counted at 100K a match)

[Roadbuster]

LordKnightFandragon, on 26 January 2015 - 10:24 PM, said:

Its called farm and milk the system, ignore your buddy who i about to die to those assaults, let him core them out and then you can rush in for the 3 pts of damage on each for that awesome solo kill.......

How is that encouraging teamplay? PGI needs to rethink their reward system heavily....

Um...no.
You get 10k for a solo kill = most damage and killing blow
8,5k for dealing most damage and assist
5k for most damage dealt on a killed target
4,5k for a savior kill
4k for killing blow
3,5k for an assist

So, even dealing most damage and not getting the killing blow, will earn you more than the single killing blow.

The rewards are ok, and the devs keep an eye on them and might add even more rewards for player actions in the future.
Yes, it could always be more, but if you get everything for free and fast anyway, why spend money for premium time, hero mechs,...?

I just posted my average CB/match in another thread.
No premium time. Founder mechs played ~12% according to stats.
Archived - CB/match: ~109k (5365 matches - 201 of 2499 listed matches in battlemech statistics played in Founder mechs)
Current - CB/match: ~98k (3025 matches - 235 in Founder mechs) not farming CB, just playing normal

That means ~11k less CB per match compared to the old system.
That's ~33mil less for 3000 matches played, compared to the old system.

With the free premium time and CB from challenges and all the sales they offer, the 33mil are nothing.
Just look at the current Clan Wave I sale, -25% for a Direwolf is ~5mil already. Could buy 4 Locust with that

Edited by Roadbuster, 27 January 2015 - 06:18 AM.

[Axeface]

Yes cbill earnings are far far too low. They must be increased, and for increased dramatically for CW.
115k/match is my average, about 1000/4500 odd matches are with premium time, that simply isn't enough for the effort i'm putting in.

If I were earning more i'de be a LOT happier on bad losses, and I'de be buying mechbays with a smile on my face for those mechs. As it is now half the time I'm playing this game is pulling my hair out wondering why I do it.

Edited by Axeface, 27 January 2015 - 06:22 AM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Roadbuster, on 27 January 2015 - 06:15 AM, said:

Um...no.
You get 10k for a solo kill = most damage and killing blow
8,5k for dealing most damage and assist
5k for most damage dealt on a killed target
4,5k for a savior kill
4k for killing blow
3,5k for an assist

So, even dealing most damage and not getting the killing blow, will earn you more than the single killing blow.

The rewards are ok, and the devs keep an eye on them and might add even more rewards for player actions in the future.
Yes, it could always be more, but if you get everything for free and fast anyway, why spend money for premium time, hero mechs,...?

I just posted my average CB/match in another thread.
No premium time. Founder mechs played ~12% according to stats.
Archived - CB/match: ~109k (5365 matches - 201 of 2499 listed matches in battlemech statistics played in Founder mechs)
Current - CB/match: ~98k (3025 matches - 235 in Founder mechs) not farming CB, just playing normal

That means ~11k less CB per match compared to the old system.
That's ~33mil less for 3000 matches played, compared to the old system.

With the free premium time and CB from challenges and all the sales they offer, the 33mil are nothing.
Just look at the current Clan Wave I sale, -25% for a Direwolf is ~5mil already. Could buy 4 Locust with that

Archived? You mean from the old Beta? Cuz, my archived from beta is 458K, vs now 98k....If the average was somewhere around 200K, that would be about good. About double what we make now. Progress would seem like its actually moving. 200k avg, 5 games per million. needing 10million, so like 25 games for 5 million, about 50 for 10 million. that would seem more reasonable then needing upwards of 100 games just to get enough to buy 1 stock locust, never mind 3....and that doesnt include equipment costs. With an average of about 200K, that would allow some players who are good to really rake in the dough, bad games would net slowish progress but it would be better then the 30-60K we make now if we dont destroy the entire enemy team each game.

You ask why we would buy a premium if we had higher rewards? Well, I ask much the same thing, except, why buy a premium time with the rewards being so low? I mean, even with a premium account, unless you have milked the system sufficiently, a premium acct isnt even worth it. So you net an avg of 100K, add premium thats only 150K....woo hoo...if the avg was 200K, a premium would net 300K, double what we get now, and alot more appealing really. 200k is 5 games for a million, 300k would be about 4 games per million. 100k is 10 games per million, and in some cases, its 30-50k if you cant get on the winning side... Do really well, prolly make 2 games per million, do poor, you need maybe 6-7 games per million. And with the hundreds of millions of Cbills we need in this game, getting a few million in just a handful of games doesnt seem that outrageous.

[Roadbuster]

Imho, the only buff to rewards, which might improve the way how groups play together, would be more CB for a win.
Something to encourage people to play together to achieve the greater goal.

Currently you get what, 25k CB for a win? And 20k for a loss?
Not much encouragement there to win a match instead of farming components, assists, whatever.

Double the reward for a win and I'm sure people would care a bit more about winning a match and help their teammates.
If MM works somehow, that would mean a 50% chance to get 25k more than now.

LordKnightFandragon, on 27 January 2015 - 06:30 AM, said:

Archived? You mean from the old Beta? Cuz, my archived from beta is 458K, vs now 98k....If the average was somewhere around 200K, that would be about good.

Well, that's what it says in the stats. How they calculate, I don't know. Never cared much about earnings.

Edited by Roadbuster, 27 January 2015 - 06:36 AM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Roadbuster, on 27 January 2015 - 06:34 AM, said:

Imho, the only buff to rewards, which might improve the way how groups play together, would be more CB for a win.
Something to encourage people to play together to achieve the greater goal.

Currently you get what, 25k CB for a win? And 20k for a loss?
Not much encouragement there to win a match instead of farming components, assists, whatever.

Double the reward for a win and I'm sure people would care a bit more about winning a match and help their teammates.
If MM works somehow, that would mean a 50% chance to get 25k more than now.

Win should be 100K, then we get our Performance rewards, ultimately netting the double rewards I dream of seeing. But then again, one has to actually get on the winning side to see that, I am cursed to the losing side...soo...I guess Id never get to see the benefits of that anyway.

BUt damage should also be increased. You win by dealing damage to the enemy and killing enemy mechs, so damage should pay better then it does. Assists should also pay better. 10K per, not 4.5....Destroying components should also pay fairly well, ofc that would just lead to people shooting off arms over killing the mech...

[Joseph Mallan]

Having to play Lights, and heavies seem to be killing my Income. I used to average 120K+ (archive) I average 84k+ now. and my KDR Dropped from 1.23 to .54. So if I am dying more and killing less I will obviously make less money. Maybe that is the problem?

[CaliburZero]

First of all-- Down with Paulconomy. When this game hits steam, the grind complaints will drown this game much like Warthunder has killed alot of its playerbase for this very reason. Thankfully though, even this game doesn't suffer as badly as it does for the grind but its still quite awful.

The one thing I want to point out to people is simple: Do away with the need to own 3 mechs to access elite/master skills. Let's face it, this was only done to even further lengthen the grind. As someone who mainly plays clan mechs now, I feel like this very idea is even more redundant since I can "create" a variant of my choosing for the most part.

[Roadbuster]

LordKnightFandragon, on 27 January 2015 - 06:37 AM, said:

Win should be 100K, then we get our Performance rewards, ultimately netting the double rewards I dream of seeing. But then again, one has to actually get on the winning side to see that, I am cursed to the losing side...soo...I guess Id never get to see the benefits of that anyway.

BUt damage should also be increased. You win by dealing damage to the enemy and killing enemy mechs, so damage should pay better then it does. Assists should also pay better. 10K per, not 4.5....Destroying components should also pay fairly well, ofc that would just lead to people shooting off arms over killing the mech...

The only thing I don't want to see is everyone making so much money that we can buy a new mech every 20-30 matches.
That's because games where you get stuff too easy will become boring fast.
Like using a money cheat in a economy simulation game. It will be fun at first, but suddely you realize there is nothing more to achieve and move to another game.

Currently it takes ~60 matches to master a mech at ~1000XP per match
At ~100k per match that makes 6mil CB.
An average IS mech costs ~5-6mil, a Clan mech ~10-11mil.
Of course the number of matches required for mastering, and earning enough to buy a new mech, varies.


Hmmm. Just thought about the "first win of the day" bonus.
Maybe this could be used for CB rewards as well?
It could be abused by people with many mechs, but it would also benefit players who don't play many matches a day.
Might also increase the variation of different chasis we see in the matches.



EDIT:

CaliburZero, on 27 January 2015 - 06:54 AM, said:

The one thing I want to point out to people is simple: Do away with the need to own 3 mechs to access elite/master skills. Let's face it, this was only done to even further lengthen the grind. As someone who mainly plays clan mechs now, I feel like this very idea is even more redundant since I can "create" a variant of my choosing for the most part.

Never thought too much about this, but you're right.
It would definitely reduce the grind quite a bit.

They could also chance the ammount you get for selling a mech.
If you only need 1 variant to master and don't know which one you like best, it would be nice to be able to buy one, run it for a while, and depending on the ammount of XP you earned with it, get more or less for selling it.
Like selling a used car.

Edited by Roadbuster, 27 January 2015 - 07:50 AM.

[Flaming oblivion]

I used to complain about this.

But to be blunt

I changed my tune

Getting teammates constantly that would be more useful if they disconnected.

I think the C-bill nerf is necessary to encourage the bads to improve through poverty.

The xp however couldbe improved .

I feel like even losing If you don't get a terribad score C-bill pay out isn't to low, However losing xp can be pretty poor even with a 3 kill 7 assist game.

[Joseph Mallan]

Roadbuster, on 27 January 2015 - 07:38 AM, said:

The only thing I don't want to see is everyone making so much money that we can buy a new mech every 20-30 matches.
That's because games where you get stuff too easy will become boring fast.

I'm playing Dragon Age:Inquesition. I have 80 hours in game (One toon) and 60 hours in 3 others. I do not have the end game equipment and won't like have it for another 60-140 hours Then again I like to take my time and wring everything out of a game.

[Bigbacon]

even with premium time and a hero mech, I still have a hard time breaking the 200k mark. I'd say average is 175k even on what seems to be a really good round.

[Roadbuster]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 January 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

I'm playing Dragon Age:Inquesition. I have 80 hours in game (One toon) and 60 hours in 3 others. I do not have the end game equipment and won't like have it for another 60-140 hours Then again I like to take my time and wring everything out of a game.

There isn't much to wring out of MWO besides the mechs though.
At least till CW improves.
But I understand what you mean.

[Mawai]

I've found income all over the place because a number of things that pay are not the basic Kills/Assists/Damage.

IF you adjust your play style to

- hit and run (hit a target and then do not hit it again for a specific amount of time)
- flanking (fire at a target without it seeing you)
- do most damage to a mech
- get the killing blow
- stay with your lance
- protect other mechs
- saviour bonuses (get in some damage on kill when they have almost killed one of yours)

AND

- accumulate kills/assists/damage

... then you will have a good income ... maybe even great.

BUT

If you just go for kills/assists/damage, your income will be decent (130k is good these days) but it won't be in the 180 to 250k range that is possible if you have adjusted your play style to receive the bonuses.

Personally, I can't do it consistently since I spend most of the match trying to win, responding to what the opponents and team mates do, supporting team mates, focus fire as required. I find it impossible to optimize my income since the opportunities to earn the bonuses appear to me to be circumstantial rather than something I can control to optimize income.

Finally, BECAUSE a lot of the bonuses depend on doing damage to opponents one way or another ... there is a much larger spread between win income and loss income. In a stomp, the losing side often doesn't get much opportunity to do damage and earn bonus income for specific actions .. I have had some losses earn 30k or less. On the other hand, a good win can earn a decent amount ... but you have to have earned the bonus rewards to maximize income.

Edited by Mawai, 27 January 2015 - 07:57 AM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Roadbuster, on 27 January 2015 - 07:38 AM, said:

The only thing I don't want to see is everyone making so much money that we can buy a new mech every 20-30 matches.
That's because games where you get stuff too easy will become boring fast.
Like using a money cheat in a economy simulation game. It will be fun at first, but suddely you realize there is nothing more to achieve and move to another game.

Currently it takes ~60 matches to master a mech at ~1000XP per match
At ~100k per match that makes 6mil CB.
An average IS mech costs ~5-6mil, a Clan mech ~10-11mil.
Of course the number of matches required for mastering, and earning enough to buy a new mech, varies.


Hmmm. Just thought about the "first win of the day" bonus.
Maybe this could be used for CB rewards as well?
It could be abused by people with many mechs, but it would also benefit players who don't play many matches a day.
Might also increase the variation of different chasis we see in the matches.

LOL, if the game was more indepth and had more to look forward to then just getting a new gundam every so often and mastering it out, then us having alot of mechs fairly quick wouldnt bore us, rather it would simply give us options and variety with which to play with in a fun, indepth, enjoyable environment. As it is, MWO is severely lacking in fun factor and depth, therefore, the only real thing to focus on is the grind. There is nothing to take our minds off it, the game play is not such that its really fun or epic.

I mean, a game like EQ, you would think MMOs would basically be up and dead, cuz, I mean, we top out and then what? We run the same ol' dungeons time and again....yet there are people who have had thier accts for 11+ years. I personally have recovered my EQ2 acct, had it for I guess now like 8 years. Yet it still seems to be fun enough to get people to either come back or never quit in the 1st place.

And if we had a grind that wasnt so insane in the 1st place, there prolly wouldnt be such a focus on it either. 60 games to master at 1000xp? Lol, if only games were avg of 1000xp....more like 400-600 at best. whats the math there? More like 80-100? And this just for 1 mech, we need 3 of the same to master it......so 300 some games to master 1 type of mech, we have how many mechs and variants in this game? Im not really a gotta catch em all player, but its nice to see the income flow at a steady rate. 100k avg and less isnt it.

Mawai, on 27 January 2015 - 07:56 AM, said:

I've found income all over the place because a number of things that pay are not the basic Kills/Assists/Damage.

IF you adjust your play style to

- hit and run (hit a target and then do not hit it again for a specific amount of time)
- flanking (fire at a target without it seeing you)
- do most damage to a mech
- get the killing blow
- stay with your lance
- protect other mechs
- saviour bonuses (get in some damage on kill when they have almost killed one of yours)

AND

- accumulate kills/assists/damage

... then you will have a good income ... maybe even great.

BUT

If you just go for kills/assists/damage, your income will be decent (130k is good these days) but it won't be in the 180 to 250k range that is possible if you have adjusted your play style to receive the bonuses.

Personally, I can't do it consistently since I spend most of the match trying to win, responding to what the opponents and team mates do, supporting team mates, focus fire as required. I find it impossible to optimize my income since the opportunities to earn the bonuses appear to me to be circumstantial rather than something I can control to optimize income.

Finally, BECAUSE a lot of the bonuses depend on doing damage to opponents one way or another ... there is a much larger spread between win income and loss income. In a stomp, the losing side often doesn't get much opportunity to do damage and earn bonus income for specific actions .. I have had some losses earn 30k or less. On the other hand, a good win can earn a decent amount ... but you have to have earned the bonus rewards to maximize income.

thats the whole point, you only get rich if you milk the system. But if you just play the game with the goal in mind to kill the enemy and win, you wont make squat. Cuz to kill you simply shoot the enemy down. so while your allies are getting shot to bits, you fire once...wait 20s, fire again, wait again, fire, wait 20s......but oh dear....now your down 3 mechs and your side got the 1 you were shooting....

No, you all get in, shoot the enemy, deal the damage, win and get space rich, really it should be about that simple.

[Burktross]

Latorque, on 27 January 2015 - 03:48 AM, said:

It's kind of weird - the light qeue has dropped down to single digits because the common notion is the weight class doesn't deal enough damage (which is nonsense in certain builds when those are supported by a pushing team). When you pilot those things even remotely according to their supposed role; the CBills start to rack up quite nicely -

• scouting 2000C-Bills,
  
• LRM-locking 2000 C-Bills
  
• flanking 1500 C-Bills Bonus
  
• hit and run 2000 C-Bills Bonus
  
• First capture 4500 C-Bills Bonus

and i haven't even tried Tag and Narc yet. Problem with this - as with many features introduced by PGI: they aren't really obvious; you bascially only take note of them when the little golden line shows up in the match; framed by explosions or a blurred landscape. The amounts listed look minicule by themselves, but they damn well add up.


Taking a KC and slugging it out going head on towards your enemy cuts you out of those profits; you're basically reduced to your damage dealing. Sometimes i think that players have become so limited in their "PGI nerf C-Bills = damage" that they aren't ready to try anything else to earn that virtual cash; and PGI doesn't exactly forcefeed the information down their throats either.

Even in doing such things, cbills are moderate at best.

LordKnightFandragon, on 27 January 2015 - 08:05 AM, said:

LOL, if the game was more indepth and had more to look forward to then just getting a new gundam every so often and mastering it out, then us having alot of mechs fairly quick wouldnt bore us, rather it would simply give us options and variety with which to play with in a fun, indepth, enjoyable environment. As it is, MWO is severely lacking in fun factor and depth, therefore, the only real thing to focus on is the grind. There is nothing to take our minds off it, the game play is not such that its really fun or epic.

I mean, a game like EQ, you would think MMOs would basically be up and dead, cuz, I mean, we top out and then what? We run the same ol' dungeons time and again....yet there are people who have had thier accts for 11+ years. I personally have recovered my EQ2 acct, had it for I guess now like 8 years. Yet it still seems to be fun enough to get people to either come back or never quit in the 1st place.

And if we had a grind that wasnt so insane in the 1st place, there prolly wouldnt be such a focus on it either. 60 games to master at 1000xp? Lol, if only games were avg of 1000xp....more like 400-600 at best. whats the math there? More like 80-100? And this just for 1 mech, we need 3 of the same to master it......so 300 some games to master 1 type of mech, we have how many mechs and variants in this game? Im not really a gotta catch em all player, but its nice to see the income flow at a steady rate. 100k avg and less isnt it.




thats the whole point, you only get rich if you milk the system. But if you just play the game with the goal in mind to kill the enemy and win, you wont make squat. Cuz to kill you simply shoot the enemy down. so while your allies are getting shot to bits, you fire once...wait 20s, fire again, wait again, fire, wait 20s......but oh dear....now your down 3 mechs and your side got the 1 you were shooting....

No, you all get in, shoot the enemy, deal the damage, win and get space rich, really it should be about that simple.

Agreed. Sometimes the best approach is the simplest. We're not planning out an extensive, 2 year military operation, we're assaulting a company of scrubs with our company of scrubs and hoping that our scrubs come out on top. Rewards should be gauged on how effective we are at acquiring our objectives, not our formations.

[jackal404]

Flaming oblivion, on 27 January 2015 - 07:41 AM, said:

I think the C-bill nerf is necessary to encourage the bads to improve through poverty.

As a casual player, I average about 85-100K per match. You'd probably call me a bad since I get about 5-8 assists and do around 400 damage a match.

Given the current state - there is no incentive for me to continue playing. It took me almost two months to grind for a Timberwolf. Two months for one mech! Add in another two to three nights to be able to change a few weapons.

Even My Myramet doesn't earn enough to get a new mech in less than a month. Since I'm playing clan mechs (other than the CTF-IM Hero), everything costs more and takes longer to get.

I'm quickly reaching the point where I don't want to play anymore, just because of the grind.

[Joseph Mallan]

jackal404, on 27 January 2015 - 09:51 AM, said:

As a casual player, I average about 85-100K per match. You'd probably call me a bad since I get about 5-8 assists and do around 400 damage a match.

Given the current state - there is no incentive for me to continue playing. It took me almost two months to grind for a Timberwolf. Two months for one mech! Add in another two to three nights to be able to change a few weapons.

Even My Myramet doesn't earn enough to get a new mech in less than a month. Since I'm playing clan mechs (other than the CTF-IM Hero), everything costs more and takes longer to get.

I'm quickly reaching the point where I don't want to play anymore, just because of the grind.

Its not teh amount of money you make per match, but teh cost of Clan Mechs.
Back in the 80s I could buy a Bottle of Jack for $8 Bucks (give er take) When I was in Korea a Bottle of Jack was $50.

A Timber Wolf should cost a Clanner as much as a Orion Costs me. But IF B could buy a Timber Wolf I should have to pay a high premium.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 26 January 2015 - 10:19 PM, said:

The Paulconomy never dies.

In 3051 3050, the Mech Depression of 3049 continues onward.... again.

Edited by Deathlike, 27 January 2015 - 10:00 AM.