40 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

I would not exactly say that MadDogs are inferior to Dragons. 60 ton vs. 60 tons... I'd rather have a lance of Dogs than Dragons on my team.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

For a 60 tonner, it has plenty of bite.

As for balancing between Omni-pods, I can see an armor boost against hardpoint counts as suggested though.

[Lightfoot]

You are just not doing it right. Mad Dog is all about missiles. SRMs are fine, but it's not much of a brawler so use caution. LRMs are decent, but no special quirks. What about that cockpit location though? What does that enable?

[Ultimax]

Prosperity Park, on 27 January 2015 - 07:20 PM, said:

I would not exactly say that MadDogs are inferior to Dragons. 60 ton vs. 60 tons... I'd rather have a lance of Dogs than Dragons on my team.

Yeah it's definitely better than the Dragon and imo better than most missile based Catapults.

Beyond that, it's a 60 ton mech that plays support better than most mechs that are supposed to be support.

It has a good speed, a ridiculous amount of missile options and spare tonnage for back up energy weapons with ammo for days.


It's a good mech, you just can't lead charges with it and your build needs to be focused, you can't do everything.

If that's a problem then I think people need to become accustomed to disappointment.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 27 January 2015 - 07:37 PM.

[Wingbreaker]

As the local representative of the Church of Bad Dog, if you think this mech needs more quirks,

"Get Gud™"

[Mcgral18]

Wingbreaker, on 27 January 2015 - 07:57 PM, said:

As the local representative of the Church of Bad Dog, if you think this mech needs more quirks,

"Get Gud™"

Nah brah, the Awesome is totally Awesome! No way it's Tier 5, it doesn't need any quirks whatsoever.

Let me show you dozens of 1k+ matches to justify my opinion!


While the Mad Dog is nowhere near that bad, it's still a 60 ton mech. The non-A STs need buffs. Don't argue that; you can't. You can get 5% less cooldown....or take 3 times as many missiles. Such decisions...much thought.

The bad omnipods need a reason to be taken. Armour buffs are a nice way to do that; but might just cause some Sword and Board with 3 missiles.

[PeekaBoo I C Ju]

Seems to me the mad dog is pretty nasty, but like any other mech that is highly dependent on the pilot

[Ultimax]

Mcgral18, on 27 January 2015 - 08:43 PM, said:

Nah brah, the Awesome is totally Awesome! No way it's Tier 5, it doesn't need any quirks whatsoever.

Let me show you dozens of 1k+ matches to justify my opinion!


While the Mad Dog is nowhere near that bad, it's still a 60 ton mech. The non-A STs need buffs. Don't argue that; you can't. You can get 5% less cooldown....or take 3 times as many missiles. Such decisions...much thought.

The bad omnipods need a reason to be taken. Armour buffs are a nice way to do that; but might just cause some Sword and Board with 3 missiles.

Since every single Mad Dog can take A pods, does that actually matter though?

Any buffs they give to the other pods either need new tech that forces the quirk to be pod/location specific or it will do as you said and just allow more optimization of the already optimal pods.


I'm OK with not every single pod ever being totally competitive with every other pod since you can just jiggle things around and get the build you want anyway.

Unlike my Thunderbolt 9SE that even with JJs being just outright a weaker mech vs. other potential Thunderbolt builds without those right torso energy mounts and no way to ever change that.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 27 January 2015 - 09:02 PM.

[Wingbreaker]

Mcgral18, on 27 January 2015 - 08:43 PM, said:

might just cause some Sword and Board with 3 missiles.

How to know you're bad at mad dogs, example A.

[Mcgral18]

Wingbreaker, on 27 January 2015 - 09:03 PM, said:

How to know you're bad at mad dogs, example A.

Never used them; but they certainly die easily.


Soon™

[Wingbreaker]

Mcgral18, on 27 January 2015 - 09:04 PM, said:

Never used them; but they certainly die easily.


Soon™

An MDD with a good pilot can easily maintain significant fire below 30%. **** is tank, yo. You said it best, sword and board.

[Mcgral18]

Wingbreaker, on 27 January 2015 - 09:33 PM, said:

An MDD with a good pilot can easily maintain significant fire below 30%. **** is tank, yo. You said it best, sword and board.

And 60% damage resistance. Large ST hitboxes can be a boon; look at the Stalker. Of course, less IS. Not sure how large the arm sockets are; that would be 80% damage reduction.

[Alistair Winter]

If you compare the Mad Dog with the other 60 ton mechs, I think everyone will agree the Mad Dog is clearly superior. Quickdraw and Dragon have nothing for the Mad Dog.

The biggest issue with the Mad Dog is that it's slightly heavier than the OP Storm Crow. They're pretty similar in capabilities if you want to combine missiles and lasers, but the Storm Crow is faster and lighter, making it a better choice for CW. Furthermore, it's not as good as the OP Timber Wolf. So if you're playing CW, 3 Storm Crows and 1 Timber Wolf are the best choice. If you're playing public queue, why pick a Mad Dog over a Timber Wolf?

It's a good mech. It just looks bad compared to the OP Storm Crow and Timber Wolf. Would have been better with Endo, but oh well.

Navid A1, on 27 January 2015 - 01:31 PM, said:

How do you feel about this build:
MDD-PRIME

I feel like it has 30% heat efficiency even if you're not firing your LRMs. In other words... do not want.

[Praehotec8]

As others, I think it's a good support mech, but a poor front line brawler. It's one mech where the lore is very accurate:

It functions best by providing support on the edge of the main battle line, then swooping down late in the match to mop up what's left.

It is definitely squishy, so unless one runs it as a fast strike mech, SRM heavy builds tend to have (at least for me) short life expectancies.

Top Tier, it probably is not, but its a decent addition to the clan stables for us casual players.

[Lily from animove]

Ultimatum X, on 27 January 2015 - 09:01 PM, said:

Since every single Mad Dog can take A pods, does that actually matter though?

Any buffs they give to the other pods either need new tech that forces the quirk to be pod/location specific or it will do as you said and just allow more optimization of the already optimal pods.


I'm OK with not every single pod ever being totally competitive with every other pod since you can just jiggle things around and get the build you want anyway.

Unlike my Thunderbolt 9SE that even with JJs being just outright a weaker mech vs. other potential Thunderbolt builds without those right torso energy mounts and no way to ever change that.

yes it does, the entire sense of balance and diveristy is to give every existing piece an own place of proper existence where it has something that something else doesn't. And pods outclassing other pods totally should have something giving them a proper place to exist. and those 2.5 GXP for a 8/8 combo is definately not one.

[DYSEQTA]

Rule #1 of Mad Dog piloting: Do not torso twist to defend yourself like you do in other mechs unless it is a final resort and you need to spread damage away from a red core..

Learn that 1 rule and things will go much better for you.

[Willard Phule]

Try using 6 CLRM5s with a cooldown 5 module and a couple of CERMLs for backup.

You can actually get a cloud of 30 LRMs out there like an IS mech...or you can chain fire them and keep someone shaking until they hide.

[Ultimax]

Lily from animove, on 28 January 2015 - 03:16 AM, said:

yes it does, the entire sense of balance and diveristy is to give every existing piece an own place of proper existence where it has something that something else doesn't. And pods outclassing other pods totally should have something giving them a proper place to exist. and those 2.5 GXP for a 8/8 combo is definately not one.

I don't think you understand my statement.

Aside from the fact that it is incredibly difficult to balance, every single choice, while simultaneously making sure that your buffs don't suddenly shoot one pod to the top of the chain - there is also the issue where we do not even know if PGI can make a pod-only specific quirk so only the weapons in that pod benefit.



Just think about how difficult that will be, what if you have an A pod and Prime Pod and the Prime pod has missile specific cooldown reduction ONLY for missiles in that pod, then what if you slot the same sized launchers in each pod - now you have two different cooldown times?


That's a complete mess.


So if you give buffs to the prime torso for missiles, and not the A, I will simply find the min/max point in how to combine those two for the new optimal loadout - because I don't think PGI can realistically (or whether or not it's even technically feasible at the moment) build it so it can't just be optimized in a new way once again leaving other options off the table.


This isn't nursery school, not every single kid needs to graduate with his macaroni art.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 28 January 2015 - 10:07 AM.

[Deathlike]

Ultimatum X, on 27 January 2015 - 09:01 PM, said:

Since every single Mad Dog can take A pods, does that actually matter though?

Any buffs they give to the other pods either need new tech that forces the quirk to be pod/location specific or it will do as you said and just allow more optimization of the already optimal pods.


I'm OK with not every single pod ever being totally competitive with every other pod since you can just jiggle things around and get the build you want anyway.

Unlike my Thunderbolt 9SE that even with JJs being just outright a weaker mech vs. other potential Thunderbolt builds without those right torso energy mounts and no way to ever change that.

Ultimatum X, on 28 January 2015 - 10:06 AM, said:

I don't think you understand my statement.

Aside from the fact that it is incredibly difficult to balance, every single choice, while simultaneously making sure that your buffs don't suddenly shoot one pod to the top of the chain - there is also the issue where we do not even know if PGI can make a pod-only specific quirk so only the weapons in that pod benefit.



Just think about how difficult that will be, what if you have an A pod and Prime Pod and the Prime pod has missile specific cooldown reduction ONLY for missiles in that pod, then what if you slot the same sized launchers in each pod - now you have two different cooldown times?


That's a complete mess.


So if you give buffs to the prime torso for missiles, and not the A, I will simply find the min/max point in how to combine those two for the new optimal loadout - because I don't think PGI can realistically (or whether or not it's even technically feasible at the moment) build it so it can't just be optimized in a new way once again leaving other options off the table.


This isn't nursery school, not every single kid needs to graduate with his macaroni art.

They already did said buffs on the Mist Lynx (before the added quirks it go) where the side torsos had three options:

1) Increased Torso Twist Speed (MLX-Prime)
2) Increased Protection (MLX-B ) - specific to each omnipod/side torso
3) Increased Torso Twist Range/Radius (MLX-C)

They've also done similar stuff to the Gargoyle (both arms) and to a lesser extent the Hellbringer (the left arm).

I don't see much potential for min-maxing here unless the armor quirk is stupidly useful (as in too much).

If you are a programmer worth your salt, making component/section/omnipod only quirks is not a complicated process... unless you write spaghetti code of fail.

You can't use that logic against the Hellbringer... where the ECM torso is far superior to its alternatives. It needs to be a decent choice... otherwise there is no choice (although, not having ECM is a reason to get mocked, unlike the Mist Lynx's non-ECM choice)

Edited by Deathlike, 28 January 2015 - 12:09 PM.

[Kain Demos]

For a mech at the bottom of its weight class tonnage-wise it is surprisingly good.

It is a glass cannon like a good under-weight heavy 'mech should be.