69 replies to this topic

[cranect]

The issue arises when most of the team has formed a plan and 3 or 4 people just decide nope we arent going to do what they say or communicate with them. Then problems occur.

[Davers]

Hutijin, on 28 January 2015 - 10:45 AM, said:

Totally true. Having coms or focing people to use them will do nothing to make CW mroe fun and will actually piss more people off. Some people just want to blow up mechs and play. Some are anti-social. Some are just tired of getting rolled by pre-mades with light rushes and drop farming. Being able to yell at each other in-game will not fix any of that. It's a shame as I used to like CW, and I PUG it, but when it was a roll fest as of the last 2 weeks, I do not play it at all anymore, not worth the hassle when I am getting killed 3 secs from being dropped. If CW is soo dependant on TS or commms, then it is destined to fail or just be for the elite premade folks that want to fight each other. And that version will alienate a lot of casual gamers.. Not much of a winning outcome in either case.. Sorry to be bleak, but it is what it is..

Community Warfare for people who don't want to be part of the community? Anti-Social Warfare, perhaps?

[wanderer]

12-mans and ASWs don't mix well. And all-PUG (generally IMHO units tend to lose serious integrity once more than 4 PUGs are in a match) or majority-PUG groups are at a serious if not fatal disadvantage vs. organized groups.

As I've said many times, there should be CW modes designed for 4 players with a smaller drop deck rather than only 12x4 vs. 12x4. It'll be a great place for people who don't want to be filler and hopefully reduce the number of "teams" that are in reality mobs of targets to be farmed by real, organized and large groups.

[Kjudoon]

UberStuka, on 27 January 2015 - 06:49 PM, said:

Just because they will have voice comms will not make them a better group. Lets face it they are PUGS due to multiple reasons...

cant work together

no piloting skills

no people skills

I could imagine more **** talk over comms than actual team work.

PUG comms:

"lets go alpha gate"

"screw you bravo is better"

"that's what your mom said"

"why did you bring a locust/lrms"



The real coordination is in the drop decks. comms is secondary

Not thinking quite bad enough.

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4134474

This is more to the point, and I forgot to add:

- And in half a dozen languages.

[SnkOnDesNutz]

a training video for cw wouldnt hurt for new people either

[oldradagast]

Bigbacon, on 28 January 2015 - 09:14 AM, said:

I am ok with saying you need to get through those 25 rounds of cadet bonus before you can play CW

Agreed.

They should also probably prohibit anyone from CW who doesn't outright own at least one mech, thus preventing a 4 trial mech drop disaster.

While I strongly oppose the "get good or get wrecked!" idiocy that has sucked the fun out of CW, people that new to the game have no business being in CW.

Heck, they probably ought to be in a special "Cadet pool" for players, but the player base is probably too small for that, and over-competitive tools would simply create alternate accounts to farm noobs... because "this is war" or some drek.

They also need to add the CW maps to the testing grounds, otherwise new players have NO way to learn anything about CW without being thrown into the fire in an actual game.

Edited by oldradagast, 30 January 2015 - 08:24 AM.

[Ax2Grind]

The CW maps need to be in the testing grounds ASAP for all players to reference. Keeping them out was a mistake from day 1.

[HellAvenger]

if you noticed, barely any PUG message on the CW forum anymore.. hahahaha

[Joseph Mallan]

oldradagast, on 30 January 2015 - 08:23 AM, said:

Agreed.

They should also probably prohibit anyone from CW who doesn't outright own at least one mech, thus preventing a 4 trial mech drop disaster.

While I strongly oppose the "get good or get wrecked!" idiocy that has sucked the fun out of CW, people that new to the game have no business being in CW.

Heck, they probably ought to be in a special "Cadet pool" for players, but the player base is probably too small for that, and over-competitive tools would simply create alternate accounts to farm noobs... because "this is war" or some drek.

They also need to add the CW maps to the testing grounds, otherwise new players have NO way to learn anything about CW without being thrown into the fire in an actual game.

There are some great suggestions here Rad. And good points about the immaturity of some of teh players as well.

[Surn]

How embarrassing for those 12 man teams we have beat with random pug groups. To be frank, the way pugs compete is by doing something simple and different. The system allows commands to be ordered, and that is enough when used correctly.

Find a drop I am pugging, and give me feedback. It won't be the same as a great team opponent, but it also won't be a faceroll. It isn't about coms, it is about leadership.

[Bongo TauKat]

PUGs are a large contingent of MWO players and a lot of the newer players fall into this group obviously. Excluding them from anything is ridiculous and needs to be abandoned as a gripe.

[InspectorG]

The trick will be getting the 'average' Pug skill up to parity with an 'average' team skill.

VOIP may be nice, i dunno. Could devolve into people arguing over who is gonna be da boss.

Teams generally have a vested interest in team unity by virtue of being a team.
Pugs may have members who just dont wanna follow lead or dont even know any better.

Bongo TauKat, on 01 February 2015 - 11:55 AM, said:

PUGs are a large contingent of MWO players and a lot of the newer players fall into this group obviously. Excluding them from anything is ridiculous and needs to be abandoned as a gripe.

How many games take beginners and throw them into high level play vs veterans?
CW was intended for higher level play.
Do you nerf high level play, slighting the long term players who likely spent money on this?
Or do you find a way to make the beginners good enough to compete?
Or do you not attempt that and leave it to different brackets of play?

Hard to say.

[oldradagast]

InspectorG, on 01 February 2015 - 12:24 PM, said:

The trick will be getting the 'average' Pug skill up to parity with an 'average' team skill.

VOIP may be nice, i dunno. Could devolve into people arguing over who is gonna be da boss.

Teams generally have a vested interest in team unity by virtue of being a team.
Pugs may have members who just dont wanna follow lead or dont even know any better.



How many games take beginners and throw them into high level play vs veterans?
CW was intended for higher level play.
Do you nerf high level play, slighting the long term players who likely spent money on this?
Or do you find a way to make the beginners good enough to compete?
Or do you not attempt that and leave it to different brackets of play?

Hard to say.

The thing is one doesn't need to nerf anything to get PUG's more into CW:

1) Add decent CW tutorials: Put the CW maps into the Training Grounds and make a simple tutorial where the player walks around shooting the generators. Then, the next "level" in the demo, he has to shoot the generators while not dying to the base turrets. This isn't going to make a new player good at CW, but it will get around the maddening frustration of basically having no clue what is going on.

In my first CW games as the attacker, I only had any idea what exactly to shoot and where to go by reading the forums. That is absurd in this day and age - it reminds me of reading "Nintendo Power!" magazine in the late 1980's to figure out how to play the games back then... except this is 20+ years later and we have the memory space to program meaningful guides and tutorials into the game.

2) Keep the completely new players out of CW: There is no good reason for a player with under 25 games (still in cadet bonus period) and no mechs of his own to be in CW. He will simply be demolished. Instead, have the game point him to the tutorial instead when he tries to go to CW, and have it clearly explain what is needed to enter CW.

3) Add some form of optional skill-based match-making to CW: I've said it a thousand times, and I'll say it a thousand more since CW is supposedly the future of this game, but any game mode that randomly pits PUG's of unknown skill against practiced teams who work together is simply wasting everyone's time.

ROFL-stomps teach people nothing. If stomping people was a viable form of education, we could teach calculus just by handing out tests on the subject and failing students until they magically learned it. Similarly, we could make somebody a champion boxer just by punching them in the face repeatedly. Why some folks think that MWO is exception to this rule is beyond me, but CW badly needs a way to ease new players into it. Without, they'll just get stomped a few times, laugh at the absurdly of PUG's vs. 12-mans, and quit CW, if not MWO, entirely, which isn't good for PGI or anyone in this game.

[InspectorG]

oldradagast, on 01 February 2015 - 12:40 PM, said:

The thing is one doesn't need to nerf anything to get PUG's more into CW:

1) Add decent CW tutorials:

2) Keep the completely new players out of CW:

3) Add some form of optional skill-based match-making to CW:

1. Yes ! MWO is quite lacking in tutorials and has a steep learning curve. = not good for new players.

2. Yes...and No. CW is a big draw for new players, and many have played other 'big robot' games.
Just how many games are sufficient to prove the general new player has base competence? Likely hundreds of matches...

3. Again, yes and no. There is no easy way that would satisfy most players, new and vested veterans, to make this work.
Best i can think of is a 3 tiered system: Beginner-wins/losses dont determine outcome much, Amateur- rank and file MWO players whose wins/losses in CW determine maybe 1/3 to 1/2 a planet's outcome, and Pro-(PGI invite only) whose wins/losses determine @ 2/3 to 1/2 the outcome.
This way each can experience CW, yet not hinder each other's play.

Problem then is contracts and not letting the 'Pro' teams collude/or Merc the system to farm rewards/outcomes.

[Kjudoon]

I'm curious... what would a CW tutorial do that is not already done by hundreds/thousands of threads currently in MWOmercs.com?

Consider the nature and personality of Pugs when answering this.

Edited by Kjudoon, 01 February 2015 - 02:36 PM.

[Screech]

I PUG so the 11 man can enjoy CW, well I will on Tuesday when a new maps comes.

[Das Grab]

so if PUGs are allowed to play CW forcing ppl to go into lances has been done. the leader. how about the command pod, that cant be used and weights three tons to be used by a player not playing a mech. where he can point on the map to go there.
he has no mech to pilot he could be 12 vs 12 plus command. oops thats been done on the other game with soldiers in modern warfare.

[Joseph Mallan]

Kjudoon, on 01 February 2015 - 02:36 PM, said:

I'm curious... what would a CW tutorial do that is not already done by hundreds/thousands of threads currently in MWOmercs.com?

Consider the nature and VARIED personality of Pugs when answering this.

FTFU, PUGs, like teams have a varied idea of what is right and wrong.

[Mirkk Defwode]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 January 2015 - 10:57 AM, said:

What you just described is NOOBs not PUGs. Pick Up Gamers wanna actually play the game. In my experience on the NA TS server I had none of the crap you listed.

None of that stuff tends to happen on the in-game comms for Red Orchestra 2 either. And those are used to great effect to getting teamwork out of a ton of random people.

[Mirkk Defwode]

Kjudoon, on 01 February 2015 - 02:36 PM, said:

I'm curious... what would a CW tutorial do that is not already done by hundreds/thousands of threads currently in MWOmercs.com?

Consider the nature and personality of Pugs when answering this.

Not everyone who plays the game frequents the forum. Anything that someone points to as a resource that can be used to improve the game externally needs to look at that as something the title should provide some modicum of within the title. This is to make it so the people who are unaware of that resource or don't actively seek it out have the same opportunity to utilize that.

It's not the best response but hopefully it's what the developers are actually looking at attempting to do.