25 replies to this topic

[ACRaven]

Is there something wrong with the team builder aspect?
I mean, let's face it, every game I play feels like it's the same team over and over and over.
As in:
6-7 Assaults
4-5 Mediums
MAYBE 1 Light

On their team.
Is there just that much hate towards lights that I am missing? I played five games in a row, and its just....sad that the lights just get hated and **** on constantly. I love playing as a light, I wanted to get a Raven, but the way the Trial Raven just gets demolished in two to five minutes, even when I listen to advice on hiding, staying out of sight, or what not, the moment I get spotted, I run around the corner from three Heavies into group of four or five Assaults all ready to kill me with one strike.

It's just...not fun playing as a light mech. I play as a heavy and assault a few times, and I get the appeal, yes you are big, and you are strong. But...when everyone else is pretty much the same packing the same weapons and loadouts...it just feels bland. Almost to the point of Call of Duty bland, and that's not what I wanted in a Mechwarrior game. I wanted to zip through the maps at high speed, scout out the enemy, have quick dog fights with other lights before the big guys showed up to zip away and support them while the Assaults work their magic as Heavies assist them and Mediums team up with lights with crazy fun fights. Where you go into a match and you have no idea what kind of mech's you're going against. Are there going to be missile heavies, or energy users, gauss users, etc. But...it's all the same and feels the same and just...bland almost. Which like I said feels sad from my point of view.

I know I haven't played long, and I'm still debating if I should keep playing and buying an assault with the C-Bill's I've earned, as I have no desire to buy a medium or light now because they just get wiped from the field within seconds as a sea of assaults floods over them.

I thought there was a 3/3/3/3 system going, but...it doesn't seem like it to me.

Sorry for the rant, but, it's just how I feel so far when it comes down to it. I feel like it's a big grind heavy bland call of duty on hardcore mode with mechs. Pick the biggest gun, and win. I guess I'll just have to grind through it and figure out in a few days or week if I even want to keep playing or not, but this is open for discussion if anyone wants to chip their two cents into it.

TL;DR:
When did lights and mediums get tossed aside for the sea of Heavies and Assaults?

And yes, I do see the percents up there when I join a game, the 30% Heavy 33% Assault 20%Heavy 17%Lights

I mean....seriously.....lights feel like they don't belong in this game right now...

[bad arcade kitty]

assaults often have longer wait times than lights and mediums are usually the least popular
i even saw lights as the most popular in the queue (usually heavies are the most popular)

[Peter2k]

I hold back and provide ecm cover for the big guns, packing longrange in both of my 3L's
but thats in CW
it really depends, but I'd rather try to stay out of brawling range until you get a good feel about situations and enemy movements

don't know, Team up?

problem with single que is that we still see people shy away from pushing together and running away in all directions when it matters the most


3/3/3/3 is only for group que

[grendeldog]

Well, first, welcome to MWO! I don't know the loadout of the trial Raven, but trials aren't that great as a general rule, and can't be customized / cannot use modules. This can be a real problem for mechs of all sizes and weight classes, because the trial builds are good on the tabletop but not so much when there's actual aiming and such involved (ie not random dice-based play).

As for having few lights, I cannot really say. I see usually 3 lights on each team, but while I am by no means high elo, I am at least a step above totally terrible pug-land - which is where you start in MWO. That shouldn't have an effect on team composition, but it may be that the lights are just getting slaughtered right off the bat because of not so great play.

My recommendation would be to get a light or a medium that appeals to you (do some research first to ensure its not totally awful though), and then play with that mech with a custom build and a radar deprivation module when you have the GXP required. I think it will be a lot more fun than trying to make the lousy trials work for you.

Best of luck, and don't hesitate to ask further questions; we all want to help eachother out in the MWO community.

[Peter2k]

also older mechwarrior games where always a race to the heavier available mech

not easy making a mech made out of paper being useful

players like you need to be put in 4vs4 battles and slowly progressing up to 12vs12
theres just too much firepower on the field to make a mistake in a light (hell any mech really)
like running in a straight line, especially away from the enemy is gonna be your doom

[Tim East]

3/3/3/3 is a soft rule in pugs, not hard to reduce queue times.

If you are new, lights can be a frustrating experience, but let me tell you as a Locust pilot, there is no other mech I'd rather use. If you think Ravens are fragile due to their legs or face hitboxes or whatever, you haven't seen anything yet. Still, have you considered using UAV? I know I leveled without it, but now that I've used it on a few of my mechs, I realize that it can just rain XP down on you while lighting up the enemy team for your allies to fail to kill.

A medium would probably be a better bet for you; the Hunchbacks in particular are pretty dangerous since the quirkening. Most people highly recommend Hunchies for newbies.

Most people aren't me. I feel like you should get the most face-grindingly hard mech you can find, and run it stock. I learned a lot about how to play by using stock Commandos. If you can do well in a sub-par mech with a stock build, you can do ok in anything.

/edit: Actually, I guess you can't UAV until you get your own mech. Sorry about that.

Edited by Tim East, 21 April 2015 - 05:20 PM.

[Peter2k]

grendeldog, on 21 April 2015 - 05:17 PM, said:

trials aren't that great as a general rule

trial 3L
3 medium lasers, ecm, srm 4 + 6
double heatsinks, xl 295, endo and ferro

Trial Mechs are not those under developed mechs they once have been

but to OP
Lights are expensive to pimp out

maybe run a clan mech (still better tech) until you can afford those Ravens
I still like mine

Edited by Peter2k, 21 April 2015 - 05:22 PM.

[bad arcade kitty]

also i dunno, i saw a plenty of light mechs doing fine since the very beginning

i think my 3rd game ever which i remembered since i got 'survivor' title for being on the winner team with 1 mech left, it was carried by some crazy firestarter

[Tim East]

Peter2k, on 21 April 2015 - 05:21 PM, said:

Trial Mechs are not those under developed mechs they once have been

LOL, so much truth. Stock trial veterans, unite!

Though, the customized mechs were much less ludicrous back then too... no Firestarters.

[jss78]

The matchmaker attempts to create a 3/3/3/3 division of each weight class, for each team. However, it algorithm is apparently flexible, and it's not unusual to see e.g. a full lance of 100-tonners and only a single light. This is because there are more people dropping in assaults than in lights.

The opposite -- overrepresentation of lights -- doesn't appear common. I've only seen that happen right after the Urbanmech came out -- for a couple days then you could see even full lances of urbanmechs.

[ShinVector]

ACRaven, on 21 April 2015 - 05:07 PM, said:

I mean....seriously.....lights feel like they don't belong in this game right now...

Lights is all about having fun win or loss.
You situational awareness needs to be top-notch as mistakes as can mean your quick death.
*However you may need would want to fully master a Light chassis + necessary modules to reap its full potential. The big advantage of *IS* lights is that their the cheapest mechs.

Edited by ShinVector, 22 April 2015 - 01:21 AM.

[Modo44]

ShinVector, on 22 April 2015 - 01:19 AM, said:

The big advantage of *IS* lights is that their the cheapest mechs.

No, IS mediums are. Light mechs come with a big XL engine premium on top of their price, which means over 10 million Cbills for any decent build. Medium mechs with standard engines are the cheapest purchases.

[Anunknownlurker]

To ACRaven - don't give up on lights. Really, don't. I am not very good, not very experienced and far too old to learn new tricks, but, the most fun I have in MWO? Lights.

I run two for fun;

Raven 3L - pretty much the standard build with 2ERLLs and 295 XL engine. Great for running around sniping, spotting and annoying the curd out of the enemy.
Jenner 7F - 6 medium lasers (can't remember which engine). Pick your targets and only fight against distracted opponents.

Firestarters seem to be most excellent in the right hands and pack one hell of a punch whilst being almost indestructible (broken hit boxes ftw!) but I've not played one so can't really comment to much.

@bad arcade kitty - lost a battle to a legged Spider. Our last two (TW and a Cent iirc), both pretty beaten up I'll admit, attacked him one at a time and both totally failed to shoot his other leg!

The trial mechs are a bit meh as others have said but by the time you have completed you Cadet matches you should have built up a lot of experience on the Raven3L(c) which transfers over to the non-champion version if you buy that and have more than enough C-bills to buy and fully kit out a couple of lights.

I would also say, don't ignore mediums and rush to assaults. An inexperienced assault driver dies fast, does little damage and is a massive detriment to the team if it fails. Use the opportunity to learn the maps and weapons in a medium; if it goes horribly wrong for you - as you have already discovered that happens a lot! - you aren't SO vital to the team's success.

The Hunchback is still the new player IS medium of choice as each chassis gives you the opportunity to learn different playstyles and weapon types. Stormcrow (yes, the trial version is very playable) is the most new player friendly medium for Clan, however, because it is known to be good, can get focussed as the other team tries to take it down fast (personally I prefer the Nova but then I am slightly insane).

So, honestly, there is still a space for lights and mediums, their mobility and relatively high firepower:weight keeps them competitive and fun to play once you work out what to do with them.

Hope you stick with it, we need more good, committed players in MWO.

[ShinVector]

Modo44, on 22 April 2015 - 01:28 AM, said:

No, IS mediums are. Light mechs come with a big XL engine premium on top of their price, which means over 10 million Cbills for any decent build. Medium mechs with standard engines are the cheapest purchases.

Won't disagree on the engine part.

[Rogue Jedi]

no one seems to have explained this yet, so here is a rough description of how matchmaker works.

the matchmaker assigns each player an Elo score for each weight class,
matchmaker tries to put you with players as close to your Elo as possible and with 3 Mechs of each weight class, if after 30 seconds it has not found you a match it loosens up the criteria, and loosens it more and more the longer you are waiting.

so if you find a match within 30 seconds it will usualy be a perfect 3 of each weight class with all the team fairly close in terms of skill, as it takes longer there is more chance of for example a great player being put with a group of below average players against a team of average players, and having perhaps 4 heavies, 4 assaults 3 mediums 1 light or something like that.

in the group queue the difference is each group cannot have more than 3 of any weight class and the groups average Elo is used, it is theoretically possible to have 4 groups each with 3 heavy Mechs form a team against a 12 person group with 3 of each weight class, usualy a 12 person group has an advantage due to better coordination, but I have been part of a 12 person team up against 2 6 player groups with not a single light and only 1 medium between them, needless to say with a team outweighing us by about 400 tonnes we lost

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 22 April 2015 - 04:49 AM.

[Anunknownlurker]

One other thing I thought I'd add ACRaven; bland? Not in my opinion.

Yes, there are "standard" or "meta" builds - for reasons - but, we gamers are a devious and marginally deranged lot, we LOVE min/max. We will spend days in Smurfy's trimming one point of armour here or there to squeeze in one more heat sink, wringing out the maximal sustained dps to 2 decimal places, working out EXACTLY how many alphas you can fire before melting; and for every "Thunderwub" or "LaservomitTW" or "SplatCrow" you will see a Raven with an AC20 or Nova with 12 small lasers and, in the right hands with the right attitude even the strangest of builds can work. Well, maybe not the AC20 Raven but my point is still valid, really, ANY build you want, try it, you might just surprise yourself as much as the other team!

[TLX]

If u like light mechs,master him and try to be the best light mech at game. I mean that:



This is a Spider variant five/K with 4 machine guns and a laser,and watch... five kills,and the machinegun is the worst weapon of the game in terms of damage,so look that,imagine if that 4 machine guns and a laser can do five kills vs medium and heavy mechs,what cannot do the Raven,whatever variant is.

I recommend u continueing playing the game,take experience and be a good light mech pilot. Not only do damage consist the game,a light mech can be the lure in battlefield,giving support to heavyes/assaults or be the scout,gathering info at starting to spot where the enemy mechs coming. Or can help another mech that is beign beated by other enemy mech. Light and mediums can pick different roles in battlefield.

I remember one match with an Adder with 2 CLAN ER LARGE LASERS,it does more than 700 damage in match,we lose but the Adder was the last mech of the team,caused i died at start and i can see his camera all the time,it stay between buildings shooting in large distances,and with joke or not,it does more than 700 damage.

Why do u think that u cannot do the same¿¿¿¿¿ All u need is practice,and a good computer of course...

This game have 2 years back,there are good light pilots that do high amounts of damage if u like that role,and for surprise in that forum i see one guy with Raven with 2 ER LARGE LASERS that do the same work as Adder.

[Ace Selin]

ACRaven, on 21 April 2015 - 05:07 PM, said:

stuff...

Honestly you dont know how to play lights.

I often get between 2-6 kills in my Firestarters, Ravens & Kitfox. Apart from that im a big asset in scouting spotting and calling targets (in opportune times).

Lights are hard to play mechs becasue any wrong move can mean instant death, so many players shy away from them.. but in the right players hands they are devastating.

[TLX]

Ace Selin, on 22 April 2015 - 03:19 AM, said:

Honestly you dont know how to play lights.

Give it a chance,it only played the game one week...^^U

Edited by TLX, 22 April 2015 - 03:25 AM.

[bad arcade kitty]

TLX, on 22 April 2015 - 02:53 AM, said:

the machinegun is the worst weapon of the game in terms of damage

you underestimate machine guns, 4 machine guns have a higher dps than a gauss rifle (0.8*4=3.2 vs 3.16) and on top of that they have a very good crit chance against the structure

TLX, on 22 April 2015 - 03:25 AM, said:

Give it a chance,it only played the game one week...^^U

also why do you call the original poster 'it'

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 22 April 2015 - 04:10 AM.