164 replies to this topic

[Summon3r]

seriously give mercs a proper implementation ASAP, it would better then entire way CW is played no matter the faction. mercs need to be hireable and for a particular reason if kurita wants to hire them to fight davion or csj or cgb or frr or ALL of them make it happen somehow and make it lucrative and attractive for mercs to be mercs.

[Revis Volek]

I second this...

We NEED an economy and a Hiring Hall for Merc.

I have not been able to do diddly in CW the past 2 weeks because Mercs have clogged the hell out of the queues in CSJ corridor.

Just sucks that one week actual CSJ clans are taking planets and the next week, because PGI seemed to think we NEEDED help, all the mercs followed the cbill and i COULDN'T even play CW if i wanted to.


Please address this....i dont want them to not play as they would like but Mercs are the most powerful units right now and get benefits from every factions LP and money wise. If you want to slow down the grind for vet's allowing Mercs to follow the cbills is really an asinine way of going about it.

At this point in CW there is no point is being loyal to a faction....just follow the Cbill boosts and fight for the Cbill. Why do we even have territory on the map? Should just be colors at this point because i dont see many other then a handful of units in each faction taking perm contracts and actually fighting for there faction.

Why NOT become a merc? More money, not tied down anywhere, get to grief anyone and everyone if you so wish or you can follow along with a factions plan. Mercs shouldn't even be allowed to initiate attack on planets...should just answer calls when we need more units. and that should only gor for IS.....Clans didnt have mercs and frankly im fine with that. Just bring back CLAN LOYALIST and have them sign up as that if they wish to participate in CW as a "merc" for the Clans.

Edited by DarthRevis, 28 January 2015 - 08:39 AM.

[Alexander Steel]

The people hiring the mercs are NPCs. Combat units don't traditionally hire mercs in Battletech. It's the house or various nobles, sometimes companies.. but VERY VERY VERY rarely combat House Units.

[Revis Volek]

Alexander Steel, on 28 January 2015 - 09:03 AM, said:

The people hiring the mercs are NPCs. Combat units don't traditionally hire mercs in Battletech. It's the house or various nobles, sometimes companies.. but VERY VERY VERY rarely combat House Units.

We are well aware....

So all of a sudden now THIS ONE ASPECT has to stick to lore? Get outta here!

Also no one is hired or even fired....we just do as we wish.

To be hired you must be needed, interviewed/apply/send resumes and then able to be fired if you do your job badly. We can do none of that nor can the NPC's you claim are doing this. (there is no NPC it just click a thing and play, sugar coating it like there is something real is silly) There is no decision being made. You just put on a Stiener colored shirt and go to town! If that's no fun then go Purple Chicken! Or Liao! Purple Chickens dont have Jerseys though....they paint themselves like the drunk guys at sporting events!


But yea...lets not make this more complicated then it is. No NPC's....just a thing you click that changes your faction its really more like a non Playable spreadsheet.

[Alexander Steel]

By that token screw up House Legions would be fired and only be able to fight on the planets that the bosses told them to.

[RustyBolts]

DarthRevis, on 28 January 2015 - 08:39 AM, said:

I second this...

We NEED an economy and a Hiring Hall for Merc.

I have not been able to do diddly in CW the past 2 weeks because Mercs have clogged the hell out of the queues in CSJ corridor.

Just sucks that one week actual CSJ clans are taking planets and the next week, because PGI seemed to think we NEEDED help, all the mercs followed the cbill and i COULDN'T even play CW if i wanted to.


Please address this....i dont want them to not play as they would like but Mercs are the most powerful units right now and get benefits from every factions LP and money wise. If you want to slow down the grind for vet's allowing Mercs to follow the cbills is really an asinine way of going about it.

At this point in CW there is no point is being loyal to a faction....just follow the Cbill boosts and fight for the Cbill. Why do we even have territory on the map? Should just be colors at this point because i dont see many other then a handful of units in each faction taking perm contracts and actually fighting for there faction.

Why NOT become a merc? More money, not tied down anywhere, get to grief anyone and everyone if you so wish or you can follow along with a factions plan. Mercs shouldn't even be allowed to initiate attack on planets...should just answer calls when we need more units. and that should only gor for IS.....Clans didnt have mercs and frankly im fine with that. Just bring back CLAN LOYALIST and have them sign up as that if they wish to participate in CW as a "merc" for the Clans.

This ^ is in my mind 100% correct.

[Joseph Mallan]

DarthRevis, on 28 January 2015 - 09:13 AM, said:

We are well aware....

So all of a sudden now THIS ONE ASPECT has to stick to lore? Get outta here!

Also no one is hired or even fired....we just do as we wish.

To be hired you must be needed, interviewed/apply/send resumes and then able to be fired if you do your job badly. We can do none of that nor can the NPC's you claim are doing this. (there is no NPC it just click a thing and play, sugar coating it like there is something real is silly) There is no decision being made. You just put on a Stiener colored shirt and go to town! If that's no fun then go Purple Chicken! Or Liao! Purple Chickens dont have Jerseys though....they paint themselves like the drunk guys at sporting events!


But yea...lets not make this more complicated then it is. No NPC's....just a thing you click that changes your faction its really more like a non Playable spreadsheet.

Houses use negotiators on the Mercenary stars There are planets in each house where mercs are hired. Its a simple thing to make a "Contract Generator", It doesn't HAVE to be uber interactive. Just a "Computer Monitor in an Office. Select a house And contracts random generated.

BattleTech has at least 3. That GMs use to spit out jobs for their players.

[Joe Mallad]

What we need is for the coffer system to work with hiring. The major Player House units should have larger coffers and the player run units should be able to hire us Merc units by paying us through the coffer system and they specify the conditions of our contracts. IE, Davion hires my Merc unit for whatever amount of C-Bills and they want us for a 2 week contract to fight only against Kurita. Or Stiener contacts my Merc unit and is looking for a unit to do only defense missions against the Clans.

But my point is, I think a player/unit based hiring system for Mercs would be great. Do a whole MERC NET system where Medc units can put their unit up their to show they are looking for work and or the Houses can put up adds looking for Mercs and we can than contact them.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 28 January 2015 - 11:01 AM.

[Vlad Ward]

That has come up a few times in various threads and even a quick glance at the numbers involved can easily demonstrate that there is no viable way for House units to be able to afford the kind of prices that Merc units should be charging.

People tend to look at MW2: Mercs and see 1.5 million c-bill contracts for a planet defense and think that's a reasonable price to pay for mercs in MWO. The reality is that even a single 12-man running a low average of 500k a match is bringing in 6 million unit c-bills a game, which can easily hit 60-100 million c-bills in a single night's planet defense. Compared to that, 1.5 million c-bills is peanuts.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 28 January 2015 - 11:09 AM.

[Alexander Steel]

It's better than the 50,000 C-Bill per win Russ thinks will shift things...

[Summon3r]

Alexander Steel, on 28 January 2015 - 11:18 AM, said:

It's better than the 50,000 C-Bill per win Russ thinks will shift things...

that is nothing short of a farse indeed.... regardless it would not be hard to implement a semi decent merc system and pretty much anything would be better then the way it is now, and seriously one glance at the map and you could see where a few good merc contracts would go along way to making a lot of fun for some people.

[Dracol]

DarthRevis, on 28 January 2015 - 08:39 AM, said:

I second this...

We NEED an economy and a Hiring Hall for Merc.

I have not been able to do diddly in CW the past 2 weeks because Mercs have clogged the hell out of the queues in CSJ corridor.

Just sucks that one week actual CSJ clans are taking planets and the next week, because PGI seemed to think we NEEDED help, all the mercs followed the cbill and i COULDN'T even play CW if i wanted to.


Please address this....i dont want them to not play as they would like but Mercs are the most powerful units right now and get benefits from every factions LP and money wise. If you want to slow down the grind for vet's allowing Mercs to follow the cbills is really an asinine way of going about it.

At this point in CW there is no point is being loyal to a faction....just follow the Cbill boosts and fight for the Cbill. Why do we even have territory on the map? Should just be colors at this point because i dont see many other then a handful of units in each faction taking perm contracts and actually fighting for there faction.

Why NOT become a merc? More money, not tied down anywhere, get to grief anyone and everyone if you so wish or you can follow along with a factions plan. Mercs shouldn't even be allowed to initiate attack on planets...should just answer calls when we need more units. and that should only gor for IS.....Clans didnt have mercs and frankly im fine with that. Just bring back CLAN LOYALIST and have them sign up as that if they wish to participate in CW as a "merc" for the Clans.

So, the issue seems to fall upon there being to many people within CSJ at one time. Which could be an issue down the road.... Say for instance Mercs are locked to IS, MWO goes steam, and a large chunk of people end up going Clan Smoke Jaguar. What then?

Yes, Mercs flow to the house with C-bill bonuses. That was the purpose of the mechanic. Under strength factions get a boost in order for them not to just get washed away and made irrelevant.

The ability for a Clan or House to attack all neighboring factions allows for more than one theater of operation. 180 people of a faction at most can be in a match at the same time fighting over a single planet. When majority of units within a faction restrict themselves to only one or two planets, they are limiting the total number of participants within CW.

Mercs or not, that cap can get reached. The question is, what will units do when it is reached?

As for the money deal, it takes around 2 months I believe to gain enough LP to reach level 10 within a faction as a loyalist. Extend that out to 3 to 4 months if one wants to reach that mark with only 1 week contracts.

The math would be interesting to see who actually is making more c-bills by LP rewards.
And correct me if I am wrong, but loyalists also receive a 50% bonus to c-bills contract, correct?

Edited by Dracol, 28 January 2015 - 11:38 AM.

[Russ Bullock]

Alexander Steel, on 28 January 2015 - 11:18 AM, said:

It's better than the 50,000 C-Bill per win Russ thinks will shift things...

Well this is unfair I simply stated that is what I have to use at the moment. We will review this thread and others like it for discussion in our Friday design meeting - no doubt were looking to add features.

[Nightmare1]

*Whispers Longingly* Unit Life...Contracts...Bounties...

[Vlad Ward]

Alexander Steel, on 28 January 2015 - 11:18 AM, said:

It's better than the 50,000 C-Bill per win Russ thinks will shift things...

Eh, I think there's a difference between influencing which faction a Merc unit picks and influencing how a Merc unit behaves after joining that faction.

The former is pretty arbitrary and doesn't take much of an incentive. The latter is a much bigger deal.

[Onmyoudo]

Russ Bullock, on 28 January 2015 - 11:33 AM, said:

Well this is unfair I simply stated that is what I have to use at the moment. We will review this thread and others like it for discussion in our Friday design meeting - no doubt were looking to add features.

Glad to hear you are discussing this this week. There are a number of threads making this complaint in one form or another, either in terms of mercs or benefits for House loyalty units. I think most people think it's an issue with short contract times and lack of proper rewards from the loyalty system - i.e. mechs, decals, camos, colours, prestige, etc.

When do you think you'll be able to clue us in to discussions and plans? Feb roadmap?

[Revis Volek]

Russ Bullock, on 28 January 2015 - 11:33 AM, said:

Well this is unfair I simply stated that is what I have to use at the moment. We will review this thread and others like it for discussion in our Friday design meeting - no doubt were looking to add features.

Some people dont understand what BETA means....We know you are doing the best you can with what you currently have implemented and most of us understand that Cbills aren't the final payout we will see here in CW. Some just dont want to wait....to each his own.

But i am also curious as if and when we will see changes such as this, Spring? Also Any idea on when Clan loyalist will come back? Will they be implemented like Mercs but for the Clan side of things? Have we just tossed that to the side?

[Aries 127]

Vlad Ward, on 28 January 2015 - 11:08 AM, said:

That has come up a few times in various threads and even a quick glance at the numbers involved can easily demonstrate that there is no viable way for House units to be able to afford the kind of prices that Merc units should be charging.

People tend to look at MW2: Mercs and see 1.5 million c-bill contracts for a planet defense and think that's a reasonable price to pay for mercs in MWO. The reality is that even a single 12-man running a low average of 500k a match is bringing in 6 million unit c-bills a game, which can easily hit 60-100 million c-bills in a single night's planet defense. Compared to that, 1.5 million c-bills is peanuts.

So if these figures are correct, lets say that the average for a nights payout to a merc unit is 75 million (average between 50 & 100 mill). Your units coffers would pay out roughly 525 million per week. So, maybe there should be an inflation through the negotiating process. For one example maybe PGI could set up a percentage of total contract fees that would be payed by local factories and planets within a faction/clan's territories (we can consider this a protection payoff for local businesses). PGI could use this as their incentive signing bonus to help out the struggling factions/clans while at the same time making it more affordable for the hiring party. Of course the percentage for each territory would be a live animal getting adjusted as necessary. In this way maybe we could make the hiring of mercs more affordable since you would only have to pay a % of total contract negotiated price, and you would know up front what that percentage will be before the contract is sealed.

[Peter2000]

DarthRevis, on 28 January 2015 - 08:39 AM, said:

I have not been able to do diddly in CW the past 2 weeks because Mercs have clogged the hell out of the queues in CSJ corridor.

Just sucks that one week actual CSJ clans are taking planets and the next week, because PGI seemed to think we NEEDED help, all the mercs followed the cbill and i COULDN'T even play CW if i wanted to.

Or, you know, it's your own fault for pretending like the Ghost Bear front doesn't exist. The same mercs you vilify for actually playing the game and "taking your drops" want to fight and play the game. But when we suggested that diplomatically closing ALL BUT ONE of your fronts makes that hard, we were repeatedly attacked on these forums.

Edited by Peter2000, 28 January 2015 - 12:46 PM.

[Vlad Ward]

Aries 127, on 28 January 2015 - 12:41 PM, said:

So if these figures are correct, lets say that the average for a nights payout to a merc unit is 75 million (average between 50 & 100 mill). Your units coffers would pay out roughly 525 million per week. So, maybe there should be an inflation through the negotiating process. For one example maybe PGI could set up a percentage of total contract fees that would be payed by local factories and planets within a faction/clan's territories (we can consider this a protection payoff for local businesses). PGI could use this as their incentive signing bonus to help out the struggling factions/clans while at the same time making it more affordable for the hiring party. Of course the percentage for each territory would be a live animal getting adjusted as necessary. In this way maybe we could make the hiring of mercs more affordable since you would only have to pay a % of total contract negotiated price, and you would know up front what that percentage will be before the contract is sealed.

This is essentially the faction bank solution. Faction Unit A puts 10 million c-bills in, Merc Unit B takes 100 million c-bills out.

This sort of c-bill generation seems like it would be very easy to abuse.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 28 January 2015 - 01:01 PM.