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6 Games In A Row Facing Big Organized Groups


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#21 AlmightyAeng

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 06:06 AM

View Posts3nate, on 28 January 2015 - 07:25 PM, said:

Is this a random occurrence that evens out over time ? I've spent the last CW games with pugs facing large organized groups. How is that fun ? we got murdered every time.


Just to pop in, were you getting the same team over and over again? Dropping on the same planet while a large group is working on turning a planet can have that result, particularly if they're fielding multiple 12-mans.

Organized groups are also more likely than PUGS to find OTHER organized groups and coordinate attacks on a single place...so that place will end up with a greater occurrence of 12-mans.

#22 MischiefSC

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 10:12 AM

Quit pugging the clan border. The clan border is comprised of is pugs vs clan organized teams.

Pug the attack queue is vs is and you'll play with better members of your faction against a mix of teams and pugs. Clan border is 50% people who don't care and don't want to win going out to get farmed by organized teams.

#23 Revis Volek

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 10:43 AM

View Posts3nate, on 28 January 2015 - 08:11 PM, said:

it seems like a punishment for not being attached to an organized group, which seems fairs, as it's now provided me with incentive to find an organized group. I'm not mad. lol



Its not that they are punishing you...you are kinda punishing yourself. Hear me out though....

This is the 12 man mode, no sugar coating that.

There is NO MM (match maker) in CW its first come first serve or whoever fits to make a 12 goes into a game....there is no skill associated with the 48 mechs or the the 24 pilots when the games are made. Its just the luck of the draw (or in your case the lack of luck, lol :D ).

But this is something i feel like not many solo or casual guys even KNOW before jumping into CW. No MM means you could be on a team of literally 11 guys still in their cadet bonus against a 12 man on comms of vets who have been in the game since CB.

But i am really glad you you decided to look into ways to perform better and are not just crying for the game mode to be changed to benefit you. You are in fact the Poster Boy for all pugs and solo players! If you ever need a group to play with and decided that the Draconis Combine is not for you....we Smoke Adders take Bondsman! lol


Good luck man, i hope you find a decent group of like minded individuals and come give me and my team a run for our money one night soon!

View PostMischiefSC, on 29 January 2015 - 10:12 AM, said:

Quit pugging the clan border. The clan border is comprised of is pugs vs clan organized teams.

Pug the attack queue is vs is and you'll play with better members of your faction against a mix of teams and pugs. Clan border is 50% people who don't care and don't want to win going out to get farmed by organized teams.



Why? Why does he have to play the game YOU want him to play...

You play how YOU wanna play bud. Don't let these Davions fools tell you how to enjoy YOUR free time....they are scared of clans so they run with their tails between there legs when they see us coming. :P


I welcome the day when it takes 3 or 4 days to take one planet again. But they cant all be Turtle Bay i guess.

Edited by DarthRevis, 29 January 2015 - 10:48 AM.


#24 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 10:43 AM

View PostWolfiac, on 29 January 2015 - 03:49 AM, said:


And this is neither. This is a game. See the difference?

Nope, Cause I am trying to love this game! Like I do the Dragon Age Games and Final Fantasy and Whitcher2.

#25 AlmightyAeng

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 10:51 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 29 January 2015 - 10:43 AM, said:

Nope, Cause I am trying to love this game! Like I do the Dragon Age Games and Final Fantasy and Whitcher2.


Inquisition is SO GOOD.

#26 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 11:20 AM

View PostGhost Badger, on 29 January 2015 - 10:51 AM, said:


Inquisition is SO GOOD.

I have 4 characters! Courted Cassandra in one with a Qunari! :D

#27 Apnu

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 11:30 AM

View PostJakob Knight, on 28 January 2015 - 07:47 PM, said:


Well, considering CW is intended as the part of the game for 12-man teams working together as part of the 'hardcore' mode, yes, this is what should be normal. As for how fun it is? If your only criteria for 'fun' is winning all the time, then you probably should join a unit that fields 12-man teams for CW, and don't PUG. As I have said, CW is not aimed at PUG play, but full teams working together. If you don't want to face heavy odds that you will be badly beaten, make sure your team is working as a team when it is likely to face those that are.

I can say I have plenty of fun in CW. But then for me, it's about the strategy and tactics, not necessarily if I win, lose, or even fight.


If that's the case, why allow solos and small groups in CW at all? Its confusing to have this enticing game mode but then say its for 12 man groups only. All that happens is what the OP states. Solos and small groups get curious and go in there, get their heads flushed down toilets by organized, prepared, and trained groups and come out saying WTF man!

I completely agree with OP. I split my time with the PUG life and HHoD life. I tried PUGing CW, I'd rather eat glass than do that again.

"Fun" is having a reasonable chance at success and failing on your own merit. Its not fun playing against a team that holds all the cards. While in war, there may not be a choice, this is a video game, fun is an important factor as is balance.

It doesn't help that the game client (currently, will change in Feb) doesn't give solos and newbies a way to find groups to work with. In fact, nothing in the game says that CW is the advanced, organized and highly competitive aspect of the game. It just sends out alerts to everybody to go fight and when they get in, after waiting a long time, to a match wherein they get their throats mercilessly stomped.

#28 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 11:48 AM

View PostApnu, on 29 January 2015 - 11:30 AM, said:


If that's the case, why allow solos and small groups in CW at all? Its confusing to have this enticing game mode but then say its for 12 man groups only. All that happens is what the OP states. Solos and small groups get curious and go in there, get their heads flushed down toilets by organized, prepared, and trained groups and come out saying WTF man!

I completely agree with OP. I split my time with the PUG life and HHoD life. I tried PUGing CW, I'd rather eat glass than do that again.

"Fun" is having a reasonable chance at success and failing on your own merit. Its not fun playing against a team that holds all the cards. While in war, there may not be a choice, this is a video game, fun is an important factor as is balance.

It doesn't help that the game client (currently, will change in Feb) doesn't give solos and newbies a way to find groups to work with. In fact, nothing in the game says that CW is the advanced, organized and highly competitive aspect of the game. It just sends out alerts to everybody to go fight and when they get in, after waiting a long time, to a match wherein they get their throats mercilessly stomped.

For me its teh challenge of getting better and finding a way to win. I have had more than my share of "BAM! What was that!" games. Still not giving up.

#29 Fox Kell

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 11:49 AM

View PostJakob Knight, on 28 January 2015 - 07:47 PM, said:


Well, considering CW is intended as the part of the game for 12-man teams working together as part of the 'hardcore' mode, yes, this is what should be normal. As for how fun it is? If your only criteria for 'fun' is winning all the time, then you probably should join a unit that fields 12-man teams for CW, and don't PUG. As I have said, CW is not aimed at PUG play, but full teams working together. If you don't want to face heavy odds that you will be badly beaten, make sure your team is working as a team when it is likely to face those that are.

I can say I have plenty of fun in CW. But then for me, it's about the strategy and tactics, not necessarily if I win, lose, or even fight.


Yeah tactics and strat are great part of CW.

Zerg, brawl, brawl, zerg...
or
Brawl, zerg, brawl, zerg...

If you wanna speed drop, you got the Zerg, zerg...
If you wanna drag it out you can Brawl, brawl, brawl, powerdown...

Just endless options :P

Edited by Fox Kell, 29 January 2015 - 11:54 AM.


#30 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 11:51 AM

View PostFox Kell, on 29 January 2015 - 11:49 AM, said:

Yeah tactics and strat are great part of CW.

Zerg, brawl, brawl, zerg...
or
Brawl, zerg, brawl, zerg...

Just endless fun :P

You admit to there being Brawls? You are brave! ^_^

#31 Fox Kell

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 12:02 PM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 29 January 2015 - 11:51 AM, said:

You admit to there being Brawls? You are brave! ^_^


Oh yeah for sure, just last night an MS 12 man brawled us good.

They...zerged...all gens and omega to about half. Spent the other 3 rounds brawling and we appreciated that they did, usually comp teams just finish off omega with another zerg but not that night :).

We tend to do the same vs pugs, atleast give them some fun with the brawls. Knowing omega can be taken out with another simple zerg.

#32 Roadbeer

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 12:05 PM

View PostFox Kell, on 29 January 2015 - 11:49 AM, said:

Yeah tactics and strat are great part of CW.

Zerg, brawl, brawl, zerg...
or
Brawl, zerg, brawl, zerg...

If you wanna speed drop, you got the Zerg, zerg...
If you wanna drag it out you can Brawl, brawl, brawl, powerdown...

Just endless options :P

Is it me, or is the majority of Clan Wolf sliding to Terra on their own tears?

#33 Alexander Steel

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 12:25 PM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 29 January 2015 - 03:01 AM, said:


The Average TT "Official" game is 12 on 12. They usually go UP from there. This isn't your big brother's competitive game ;)

If you aren't using the Quick Strike rules that would last way too long for most organized play. Unless you only have 4 or so teams, instead of the 20+ other wargames seem to get.

#34 Fox Kell

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 12:56 PM

View PostRoadbeer, on 29 January 2015 - 12:05 PM, said:

Is it me, or is the majority of Clan Wolf sliding to Terra on their own tears?


Its just you :)

#35 Triordinant

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 01:08 PM

View Posts3nate, on 28 January 2015 - 07:25 PM, said:

Is this a random occurrence that evens out over time ? I've spent the last CW games with pugs facing large organized groups. How is that fun ? we got murdered every time.

When they rolled CW out, PGI plainly stated that it was a "hardcore" mode without Elo matchmaking that favored premade teams and that it would be hard on PUGs. In the weeks since CW rolled out, a lot of PUGs have tried it and decided it wasn't fun while a handful of PUGs enjoyed it and still do. Based on how CW was designed and what PGI said it was, this was to be expected.

Many have asked why PGI would design a game mode and separate queue for such a small slice of the MWO playerbase. I'm guessing that they were hoping that there would be a huge influx of players joining established Units and forming new ones. The problem with that assumption is the many reasons why most MWO players won't or can't join Units didn't miraculously disappear with the appearance of CW, so while there was an initial surge in Unit recruitment when CW showed up, the vast majority of MWO players are still unaffiliated and will continue to be so.

Since this fact was established, several ideas on how to get PUGs to play CW have come up and some are being implemented. One of these is in-game VOIP. While it would certainly help, it can't make up for the fact that the competitive Units have trained together for months so they know each others moves; or that they've memorized the main features of all the maps and have code names for them so they don't need to use Battle Grid coordinates; or that their 'mechs are not only fully mastered and moduled but their 'mechs and loadouts are preselected to work together as a coordinated team and compliment each others' strengths while making up for the weaknesses. On the PUG side, VOIP doesn't help at all if some of your teammates don't speak the same language or have VOIP muted.

Another suggestion has been a solo-only queue for CW. Unfortunately, this won't help much either. The reason the solo-only queue that currently exists works is because the big competitive premade groups can't reliably sync-drop into it. If there was a CW solo-only queue, the big competitive premades CAN reliably sync-drop into it because each team in a match is all the same Faction so there's no chance their Unit's players will end up on opposing sides. The Natural Law of online gaming states that if something can be exploited, it will be. Not all premade teams aim for easy wins against random PUGs, but many do.

As each of these (and possibly other) bandaids are rolled out, I'm sure there will be a surge of PUGs who'll want to try the "new, improved" CW out despite the writing on the wall. Just as before, most will be disappointed but a few will stay.

I generally like to see a glass as half full rather than half empty, and there are some good things about CW. For one, it pulled a lot of top tier competitive premade teams out of the public group queue. Before CW, players would try to introduce their friends, partners, siblings or offspring to MWO by "sheparding" them in the group queue only to get curbstomped over and over again by well-trained competitive teams using maxed out coordinated 'mechs. When the comp Units are playing CW, this doesn't happen as much. Hint: if you're a small casual group, drop into the public group queue in the hours just before the CW ceasefires.

As for me, I just enjoy the current solo-only queue for what it is: the perfect "filler" game for when you have 30 to 90 minutes to spare because, unlike other online games, a match is guaranteed to never last more than 15 minutes and most of the time they last only half that. My piloting and gunnery skills have greatly improved and when I feel up to it, I try to herd my PUG teammates to victory -and it works slightly more than half of the time.

#36 MischiefSC

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 03:30 PM

I hate to say this, I do, but -

CW proved one thing very clearly.

Most the big groups absolutely do NOT, and have NEVER, wanted good competitive games. Some teams do; most are mid sized and house units. They play all comers and work to get good matches.

A number of big groups though have actually worked to make sure they don't play other competitive teams near their own size. In fact the preference seems to be teaming up against IS pugs on the Clan border. Literally they have gravitated to an environment that most closely simulates playing in a 12man against pugs in trial mechs.

I've argued often that such wasn't the case but now that all the cards are on the table....

Yeah. A lot of groups work to avoid playing anyone close to their own skill and seek out the easiest matches they can.

Maybe we do need split queues and Elo in cw. I dunno. I am way more open to those ideas than I was.

#37 Commander A9

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 03:32 PM

If the opposing force encompassing the only "12" identified by the planet's population counter is an organized group, and you drop onto said planet, you're going to face them.

Each and every time.

One option to avoiding them is to, well, either go elsewhere, or wait until they leave, or wait until you get 24 people on the opposition or so and drop, assuming they are random players.

#38 Davers

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 03:55 PM

View PostMischiefSC, on 29 January 2015 - 03:30 PM, said:

I hate to say this, I do, but -

CW proved one thing very clearly.

Most the big groups absolutely do NOT, and have NEVER, wanted good competitive games. Some teams do; most are mid sized and house units. They play all comers and work to get good matches.

A number of big groups though have actually worked to make sure they don't play other competitive teams near their own size. In fact the preference seems to be teaming up against IS pugs on the Clan border. Literally they have gravitated to an environment that most closely simulates playing in a 12man against pugs in trial mechs.

I've argued often that such wasn't the case but now that all the cards are on the table....

Yeah. A lot of groups work to avoid playing anyone close to their own skill and seek out the easiest matches they can.

Maybe we do need split queues and Elo in cw. I dunno. I am way more open to those ideas than I was.

Units interesting in competitive play, play in the leagues. The leagues remain much more interesting, with varied load outs and tactics, while CW is still a poorly fleshed out concept.

#39 MischiefSC

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 04:17 PM

League play is great. There are a lot of other games getting played. There are a lot of big teams taking careful steps to avoid each other and farm the easiest money they can. CW currently allows the sort of farming, in fact hugely rewards the farming, that Elo and the queue split was created to avoid. Any claims that it was a matter of 'boredom' or 'long waits' or other excuses before hold no water here. Given the chance they are taking the easiest fights they can.

So you either wait for cw to die or you find means to disincent that behavior.

#40 N0MAD

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 04:31 PM

View PostMischiefSC, on 29 January 2015 - 04:17 PM, said:

League play is great. There are a lot of other games getting played. There are a lot of big teams taking careful steps to avoid each other and farm the easiest money they can. CW currently allows the sort of farming, in fact hugely rewards the farming, that Elo and the queue split was created to avoid. Any claims that it was a matter of 'boredom' or 'long waits' or other excuses before hold no water here. Given the chance they are taking the easiest fights they can.

So you either wait for cw to die or you find means to disincent that behavior.

I fear you are hearing the Fat Lady warm up..





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