250 replies to this topic

[pwnface]

Thunder Child, on 02 February 2015 - 04:02 PM, said:

And I don't know where all this BS about Clan Tech being OP super uber P2W NURFNAIO is coming from, because not only did we get rolled, we got farmed. By IS. We weren't bad players, for the most part. We coordinated our shots, picked targets. Grouped for a Zerg, instead of single-file feeding. But there is not much you can do against a full team of Super-Quirked Meta.

Teamwork is OP.

[oldradagast]

pwnface, on 02 February 2015 - 04:10 PM, said:

I read all of this and heard...

"I'm a bad solo pug and want PGI to make this game easy for me"

Then you have a reading comprehension problem. Oh, and thanks for your "insight" about my game skills. Don't worry - I'll gladly carry you like so many others in the games I play.

As for the rest of your nonsense, if you can't see why casual gamers - which this game consists mostly of, even today - are not interested in one-sided stomps where they get rolled game after game, then you know nothing about human nature.

And if you can't see why even decent players, such as myself, have no interest in a game mode where far too many matches are decided at team pairings, and yet still waste 30-minutes of everyone's time playing out the inevitable, then there's no hope for you.

[pwnface]

oldradagast, on 02 February 2015 - 04:11 PM, said:

Except, as I've stated, people don't respond well to idiotic game modes that encourage one-sided stomps. They don't think: "Wow, that team that just rolled me and insulted my mother and racial background is exactly the type of people I want to join! Then, I can get good and heap the same abuse upon the next batch of PUG's!"

Instead, they play casually with some friends, most of whom they probably know in real life, and then, after stepping foot in the steaming pile of CW, they laugh at the idiotic "match-making," post angrily on the forums, get shouted down about how rolling PUG's is part of the "skill" in CW - and then quit CW, if not the game.

You don't kick somebody in the face repeatedly and expect him to want to be like you, especially not in what is basically a casual game where nothing is at stake but free time. If the people in CW teams were getting paid big bucks, you'd have a point about how many people will want to join the big teams, but that's just not reality.

Based on your whining and severe allergy to teamwork, I don't think any team would want you. Not every team runs around verbally abusing pugs. Poor sportsmanship can be found in any game mode at any level of play.

If you don't like getting beat, get better at the game. Stop asking for training wheels because you can't handle CW.

[Ax2Grind]

oldradagast, on 02 February 2015 - 04:11 PM, said:

Except, as I've stated, people don't respond well to idiotic game modes that encourage one-sided stomps. They don't think: "Wow, that team that just rolled me and insulted my mother and racial background is exactly the type of people I want to join! Then, I can get good and heap the same abuse upon the next batch of PUG's!"

Instead, they play casually with some friends, most of whom they probably know in real life, and then, after stepping foot in the steaming pile of CW, they laugh at the idiotic "match-making," post angrily on the forums, get shouted down about how rolling PUG's is part of the "skill" in CW - and then quit CW, if not the game.

You don't kick somebody in the face repeatedly and expect him to want to be like you, especially not in what is basically a casual game where nothing is at stake but free time. If the people in CW teams were getting paid big bucks, you'd have a point about how many people will want to join the big teams, but that's just not reality.

Poor sportsmanship is not the divine realm of groups. You can really stop trying to blame everything on organized units. It's not only untrue, it's stale. Most groups are supportive of new players, friendly, and full of good sportsmanship. Your attempts to demonize anyone associated with a group, playing a team oriented game, is shameful. Stomps happen in the Pug queue as well, with lots of vitriol and curses.

[oldradagast]

pwnface, on 02 February 2015 - 04:18 PM, said:

Based on your whining and severe allergy to teamwork, I don't think any team would want you. Not every team runs around verbally abusing pugs. Poor sportsmanship can be found in any game mode at any level of play.

If you don't like getting beat, get better at the game. Stop asking for training wheels because you can't handle CW.

Keep it up guys... you're just proving my point.

Shoot the messenger, make laughable assumptions about his motives - based on nothing - and his skills - based on even less... and then expect him to join a big team after putting on an impressive show of idiocy and stupidity.

You don't get it, and you never will, but at least you provide a laugh and will always bark and froth on queue.

Gee, I wonder why folks don't want to play in CW, what with representatives like that greeting folks... lol...

Edited by oldradagast, 02 February 2015 - 04:25 PM.

[pwnface]

oldradagast, on 02 February 2015 - 04:25 PM, said:

Keep it up guys... you're just proving my point.

Shoot the messenger, make laughable assumptions about his motives - based on nothing - and his skills - based on even less... and then expect him to join a big team after putting on an impressive show of idiocy and stupidity.

You don't get it, and you never will, but at least you provide a laugh and will always bark and froth on queue.

Gee, I wonder why folks don't want to play in CW, what with representatives like that greeting folks... lol...

I'm assuming that you aren't playing CW now, based on all your terrible posts about how solo CW is too hard. If so, I'm glad I don't have to run into your whining inside of matches and only on the forums.

[oldradagast]

pwnface, on 02 February 2015 - 04:30 PM, said:

I'm assuming that you aren't playing CW now, based on all your terrible posts about how solo CW is too hard. If so, I'm glad I don't have to run into your whining inside of matches and only on the forums.

Tell me again why the general population should be interested in a game mode that has shallow game play, limited objectives with a fixed location, and most matches are decided at team pairings, before the game begins?

Yes, I quit CW - with a slightly winning record - because it was boring as sin. Even when WINNING it was boring, because it was usually about 6+ of us on a team vs. random, helpless PUG's. What's the point of that? Where's the fun in shooting helpless targets? And, before you say, "Well, those targets should join a team!" why would they after getting stomped, and what difference does that make when the lousy "match-making" in CW makes WINNING a dull experience because the win was decided at the start?

Seriously, are there that many people out there who get their jollies out of shooting helpless targets and calling it skill? There's just no point in it. CW matches should be BRUTAL battles, where people are paired up against folks of comparable ability. The greater your skill, the further you go. Heck, make it so more skilled teams have more influence on the map - I don't care, just end the stupid 30-minute one-sided snoozes fests that are decided at pairings and have zero point in playing.

Edited by oldradagast, 02 February 2015 - 04:40 PM.

[Ax2Grind]

oldradagast, on 02 February 2015 - 04:25 PM, said:

Keep it up guys... you're just proving my point.

Shoot the messenger, make laughable assumptions about his motives - based on nothing - and his skills - based on even less... and then expect him to join a big team after putting on an impressive show of idiocy and stupidity.

You don't get it, and you never will, but at least you provide a laugh and will always bark and froth on queue.

Gee, I wonder why folks don't want to play in CW, what with representatives like that greeting folks... lol...

You quote statistics that are out dated and not based on the game mode in question, you demonize group play and make derogatory comments about teams, and specifically tailor your argument to read something like "Evil Groups attack Helpless Noobs while PGI and the Community do nothing to help, news at 11"...and then wonder why no one takes you seriously. Your message tends to be a poor one mired in your hate of other units. I have seen you make useful, helpful comments and suggestions for CW. Most of these posts are not them. You do not speak for all Pug's. Many keep playing this game and enjoy it. We all want to see this game improve, but your method of suggestion is detrimental to your own cause.

[Thunder Child]

pwnface, on 02 February 2015 - 04:13 PM, said:

Teamwork is OP.

QFT. Our Teamwork was good. Theirs was better.

But I think that's where a lot of this "Clanz OP in CW" comes from. It's not that Clans are inherently OP anymore, as many of the Quirked IS chassis are outright superior to the run of the mill Clan mechs, and a select few are superior to the Holy Trinity. It's that a lot of Clan Units run in 12 mans, and 12 mans usually stomp a PuG group (there are exceptions of course). And most PuG groups are Inner Sphere, because the Clan Tech is so much more costly to just Jump into. And so 12 man Clan groups stomp IS Pugs, and thus, Clan Tech is OP. Having been on the receiving end of an IS 12 Man as a Clan PuG (even a coordinated one), it feels like IS is OP. The fact is, neither of them are. Both have their Super Tier 1 Meta Builds, and both have their OMG ROFL, why you bring dat! Tier 5 Scrub builds (for Clans, anything Not a Timber, Dire, or Stormcrow).

But, I'm still not gonna PuG CW. It's just not fun, nor rewarding. I'll only drop into CW with my Unit.

[oldradagast]

Ax2Grind, on 02 February 2015 - 04:41 PM, said:

You quote statistics that are out dated and not based on the game mode in question, you demonize group play and make derogatory comments about teams, and specifically tailor your argument to read something like "Evil Groups attack Helpless Noobs while PGI and the Community do nothing to help, news at 11"...and then wonder why no one takes you seriously. Your message tends to be a poor one mired in your hate of other units. I have seen you make useful, helpful comments and suggestions for CW. Most of these posts are not them. You do not speak for all Pug's. Many keep playing this game and enjoy it. We all want to see this game improve, but your method of suggestion is detrimental to your own cause.

My method of suggestion started with one, simple idea: provide an optional matchmaker to reduce the number of pointless, one-sided CW games that waste everyone's time.

For that one, simple suggestion, I have been demonized, shouted at, and otherwise hated upon by the idiots that rule this forum, and not one of them can offer a single good argument against my idea.

The basic reality is that CW will NEVER be a healthy game mode until the huge number of one-sided matches are reduced. They are terrible for player retention and are boring for BOTH teams.

Every other flippin' game system out there that takes its self remotely seriously uses player skill level to some degree in match-making. That's true in everything from chess to other video games.

And yet, all I've seen are insane, hate-filled replies to this simple suggestion from people whose motives range from the simple (not wanting their free wins over PUG's taken away) to the insane (Life sucks, so CW should suck; real men like losing; losing is realistic since this is actually a war not a game; and so on.)

Forgive me for having very little respect for the representatives of the CW community who haunt this forum after this stunning, weeks long display of selfish idiocy and unfathomable lunacy. But in the end, I'm right - we all know WHY people are leaving CW, and shouting more vile at them won't make them come back.

Edited by oldradagast, 02 February 2015 - 04:59 PM.

[Ax2Grind]

oldradagast, on 02 February 2015 - 04:58 PM, said:

My method of suggestion (includes hate) -

"hated upon by the idiots that rule this forum, and not one of them can offer a single good argument against my idea."

And yet, all I've seen are insane, hate-filled replies to this... suggestion
from people whose motives range from the simple (not wanting their free wins over PUG's taken away) to the insane (Life sucks, so CW should suck; real men like losing; losing is realistic since this is actually a war not a game; and so on.)

Forgive me for having very little respect for the representatives of the CW community who haunt this forum after this stunning, weeks long display of selfish idiocy and unfathomable lunacy.

But in the end, I'm right - we all know WHY people are leaving CW, and shouting more vile at them won't make them come back.

You really are convinced your right at least. Of that I have no doubt. Maybe when you have a calm moment you might reflect on your own method of communication. Perhaps..and I know this is a long shot for you...perhaps folks disagree with you not because they are "selfish idiots and unfathomable lunatics" but because they think your...wrong.

[Davers]

If there was some sort of Elo matchmaking, I hope PGI would be able to insert some lore. For example, we have the '3 Elo buckets'. Each bucket could be given a name based on a lore unit. For example Steiner might have (in lowest to highest) Lyran Regulars, Lyran Guard, and Royal Guard. Then there would be planets for these players to fight other players of similar skills. Then there would be other planets that would be open for anyone to attack (or maybe just units?). Of course, this would open up a LARGE number of worlds that could be taken in a day.

[pwnface]

How would an optional matchmaker look in CW?

If I queue up to attack a clan planet with my 12man team, I'm waiting up to 10 minutes for a team of 12 to form to defend against our attack.

Assuming a 12man clan team defends our attack, we are matched up in what should be a relatively balanced match (in theory). This is good right?

With the way CW currently works, Clan defenders are spammed a notification window to defend. If 12 random defenders queue up for defense, we are matched up and a match begin shortly.

What would an optional matchmaker do here?

Should both teams need to wait a full 10 minutes because one or two players on the pug team have the optional matchmaker turned on? I don't think anyone wants to wait even longer for matches.

Should there be a completely separate CW queue for matchmaking on or matchmaking off? If this were the case BOTH teams wouldn't have a match. You'd have 24 players queued up for the same planet against each other and NEVER getting a match?

If we had 200+ players queued up on each side for every planet MAYBE a matchmaking system could be viable. MWO simply doesn't have the population to support this. The other option is to completely remove control of what planets to attack from the players, in which case community warfare would be completely pointless.

Nobody enjoys losing matches, it hurts even more when your team loses badly. The skill gap is suddenly much more apparent when the matchmaker people usually have in solo/pug queue is disabled. The truth is, it isn't just solo pugs that get stomped. Less competitive units will get beaten (sometimes badly) repeatedly by more competitively focused units. In fact, I've seen Pug groups put up more of a fight than certain 12-man groups. The onus is on each individual player to get better at the game to improve their own gameplay experience, whether this means practicing more or researching better builds or joining a team that knows what they are doing is completely up to them.

[oldradagast]

Ax2Grind, on 02 February 2015 - 05:13 PM, said:

You really are convinced your right at least. Of that I have no doubt. Maybe when you have a calm moment you might reflect on your own method of communication. Perhaps..and I know this is a long shot for you...perhaps folks disagree with you not because they are "selfish idiots and unfathomable lunatics" but because they think your...wrong.

They can think whatever they want and still be wrong - and the general exodus from CW more than proves just how wrong they are.

Common sense dictates that any game mode that requires a heavy time investment while producing long streams of one-sided matches decided at match-pairings before the game begins is DOA. The people getting rolled leave, and the people doing the rolling who are in it for fun (not for epeen-polishing) will also leave since rolling is about as dull as being rolled.

Anyone who can't figure that out quite frankly doesn't have wit enough to be commenting on what CW "needs" since they fail to understand anything about human behavior, gaming, successful businesses, and so on.

I proposed a simple, obvious, and optional solution - and all I hear are people who, quite frankly, just don't get it screaming about how "fine" everything is and how CW "doesn't need" anyone but them.

Well, great - enjoy your dead game mode. Just don't come whining back to the Public queue saying we didn't warn you when we actually tried to save your sorry joke of CW vs. denying reality so long as the easy ROFL-stomps kept rolling in.

Edited by oldradagast, 02 February 2015 - 06:06 PM.

[Mystere]

pwnface, on 02 February 2015 - 04:10 PM, said:

If you are getting ROFL stomped repeatedly and can't be bothered to figure out why or learn how to avoid it, you have no one to blame but yourself.

^^^ This, a thousand this ^^^

[oldradagast]

Mystere, on 02 February 2015 - 06:27 PM, said:

^^^ This, a thousand this ^^^

Cute, but I'll say it again - a good chunk of us also left CW because rolling is as boring as being rolled.

I quit with a positive win record, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Maybe some people get off on shooting hapless PUG's while part of their big, "elite" team. They are no doubt the same ones who scream in protest when anything might threaten their free wins, handed out to them like candy meant to silence a bratty child. CW is supposed to be "hard-core mode," but suggestion an optional matchmaker that will take the "bads" away from the "elite teams," and they cry like babies. No more free wins - so sad!

The rest of us, however, have left CW, because what's the point when a good chunk of the games are decided before they even begin?

[Mystere]

oldradagast, on 02 February 2015 - 04:11 PM, said:

Except, as I've stated, people don't respond well to idiotic game modes that encourage one-sided stomps...

Actually, many people willing and able to learn respond differently.

oldradagast, on 02 February 2015 - 04:11 PM, said:

They don't think: "Wow, that team that just rolled me and insulted my mother and racial background is exactly the type of people I want to join! Then, I can get good and heap the same abuse upon the next batch of PUG's!"

Only real-life losers have that frame of mind. There are those who prefer giving their former abusers a taste of their own bitter medicine.

As a side note, I lump people who follow traditions of "hazing" in that same "real-life losers" group.

oldradagast, on 02 February 2015 - 04:11 PM, said:

Instead, they play casually with some friends, most of whom they probably know in real life, and then, after stepping foot in the steaming pile of CW, they laugh at the idiotic "match-making," post angrily on the forums, get shouted down about how rolling PUG's is part of the "skill" in CW - and then quit CW, if not the game.

They get shouted down because "rolling PUG's is part of the 'skill' in CW" is not the lesson to be learned in CW, but still insist that it is.

oldradagast, on 02 February 2015 - 04:11 PM, said:

You don't kick somebody in the face repeatedly and expect him to want to be like you, especially not in what is basically a casual game where nothing is at stake but free time. If the people in CW teams were getting paid big bucks, you'd have a point about how many people will want to join the big teams, but that's just not reality.

I prefer folks who instead strive to get even. <maniacal >

pwnface, on 02 February 2015 - 04:18 PM, said:

If you don't like getting beat, get better at the game. Stop asking for training wheels because you can't handle CW.

Training wheels are fine. It's asking for permanent ones that bug me.

[Ax2Grind]

oldradagast, on 02 February 2015 - 05:59 PM, said:

endless pointless ranting

Who is this "they" you love to speak of so much. How are "they" always wrong and your always right because CW needs work? Most of "us" have all agreed that CW needs work...and "we" tend to post suggestions for improvement. But when those suggestions literally blame the people playing the game (many of "your" "suggestions")...guess what...bad suggestion.

[Mystere]

oldradagast, on 02 February 2015 - 04:58 PM, said:

My method of suggestion started with one, simple idea: provide an optional matchmaker to reduce the number of pointless, one-sided CW games that waste everyone's time.

To which I 100% disagree with. And you, hopefully, already know my preferred solution.

[oldradagast]

Mystere, on 02 February 2015 - 06:44 PM, said:

Only real-life losers have that frame of mind. There are those who prefer giving their former abusers a taste of their own bitter medicine.

As a side note, I lump people who follow traditions of "hazing" in that same "real-life losers" group.

They get shouted down because "rolling PUG's is part of the 'skill' in CW" is not the lesson to be learned in CW, but still insist that it is.

I prefer folks who instead strive to get even. <maniacal >

Training wheels are fine. It's asking for permanent ones that bug me.

Well, I can respect your thoughts on hazers, PUG-stompers, and other forms of low-life losers that get their jollies from beating up people under them. Of course, a match-maker option would kill their ability to indulge in that, so I figured you'd support it... Ah, well...

The point of an optional matchmaker is to allow people to ease into CW with reasonable battles. Once you're good enough, you can move on from that into more interesting battles with better foes and better rewards, but the optional matchmaker still exists for the NEXT round of new players.

With the attitudes on display around here, it's more like, "I don't need training wheels, so nobody does - get wrecked / life sucks / this is war / whatever." It doesn't make sense...

Ax2Grind, on 02 February 2015 - 06:46 PM, said:

Who is this "they" you love to speak of so much. How are "they" always wrong and your always right because CW needs work? Most of "us" have all agreed that CW needs work...and "we" tend to post suggestions for improvement. But when those suggestions literally blame the people playing the game (many of "your" "suggestions")...guess what...bad suggestion.

Okay, so CW needs work, but just keep tossing new players in against experienced ones... because that's working out sooo well right now and can't possibly be the root cause of people leaving. No, no - 30-minute games decided at pairings before the game begins are so much fun! Right.

Could it be that perhaps the people who don't understand the pointlessness of such a game mode are... wrong?

Edited by oldradagast, 02 February 2015 - 06:57 PM.