44 replies to this topic

[Voq]

MarkFBD, on 02 February 2015 - 02:25 PM, said:

I use xl 235, ac20 w cooldown, 1 mg, 2-3 med lasers. I like it just fine.

I could see how the other builds listed here would be good as well. I prefer the one I have though.

It's not that it doesn't work, it's that that particular build should really be placed on a different variant. That build (or something very similar) was always run on a different variant - before the days quirks.
The Arrow brings its unique hardpoints to the table. They're wasted with the current perks.

Spheroid, on 31 January 2015 - 10:27 AM, said:

No the Arrow does not need a tweak. Rebuffing would just weaken the quirks of the other variants. It is a hero after all, how much help does it need?

Machine guns in general need to be looked at and the BJ-1 needs work.

You're aware that being a hero mech does nothing at all for it, right?
And no one is saying BUFF it specifically. We're saying that the particular quirks aren't appropriate for the hardpoints.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

I've also been running mine with a near clone of the BJ-1(C) build and am a little sad that it is so much more optimal than something making use of all 6 ballistic hardpoints. I really tried to like the 6MG builds (I had best results with 2LPL+6MG); I also tried 2AC2+4MG+3ML and 3AC2+3MG+3SL... but all of them have the same problem: too much facetime required. The current performance of AC2s and MGs just does not make them good choices on a 'Mech with as little armor as a Blackjack. A moderate weapon buff for MGs and AC2s in general, and quirks for either or both of those weapons on the Arrow specifically, would go a long way towards making the chassis good for something other than just being a more profitable BJ-1(C).

Mind you, I love AC20 as a weapon and I run it on as many of my 'Mechs as I can... but I feel a little guilty about doing it with the Arrow. It wasn't meant to be a boomstick carrier.

[MarkFBD]

PS WrathOfDeadguy, on 08 February 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:

I've also been running mine with a near clone of the BJ-1(C) build and am a little sad that it is so much more optimal than something making use of all 6 ballistic hardpoints. I really tried to like the 6MG builds (I had best results with 2LPL+6MG); I also tried 2AC2+4MG+3ML and 3AC2+3MG+3SL... but all of them have the same problem: too much facetime required. The current performance of AC2s and MGs just does not make them good choices on a 'Mech with as little armor as a Blackjack. A moderate weapon buff for MGs and AC2s in general, and quirks for either or both of those weapons on the Arrow specifically, would go a long way towards making the chassis good for something other than just being a more profitable BJ-1(C).

Mind you, I love AC20 as a weapon and I run it on as many of my 'Mechs as I can... but I feel a little guilty about doing it with the Arrow. It wasn't meant to be a boomstick carrier.

The only time I can get it to work is as a boomstick carrier.

[Dawnstealer]

Tabu 73, on 30 January 2015 - 04:46 PM, said:

As a big fan of the Boomjack I'd have to disagree. When I found out that the Blackjack hero was quirked to support an AC/20 I couldn't wait to grab it. It's not a stand alone mech, more of a body guard for the assaults and heavies - great at stealing their kills.

It may not be part of the meta anymore but it's still fun to tool around in from time to time.

But the BJ-1 already does this, already has the AC20 quirk, and runs it better because it's the most obvious design for that mech. You just leave so many weapon slots on the table if you use the Arrow in this manner.

Besides, I think Hero mechs should quirk as close to their stock build as possible.

[Linkin]

Hi,

My name is Linkin, and... I... love machine guns, am perhaps addicted even. I know they are terrible, but I can't help myself around that constant RoF and the sweet, sweet plinking sound. Please help all us crazy mg lovers out, and give the Arrow some mg love Better yet, give mgs some mg love

Really though, while I appreciate the big gun on a smaller mech approach, and have used that a good amount as well. I feel wrong doing anything but stuffing in as many mgs as possible, with some big lasers on the Arrow. Preferences differ, I know, but why put 6 ballistic slots on the mech if not to use them

[Voq]

Well it looks like we got what a good portion of people were asking for...
A real fix for machine guns would be great, but these new quirks will have me out in my Arrow again.

[Punk Oblivion]

I am confused... is there a list of upcoming changes I missed?

[Punk Oblivion]

Found it!
http://mwomercs.com/...-17-2015-patch/

BJ-Arrow
Specialty
Additional Structure (RT&LT) +11
Mgun Range +20%
Ballistic Weapon Range +20%
Large Pulse Laser Duration -10%
Laser Duration -10%
Energy Weapon Heat Gen -12.5%
Energy Weapon Range +12.5%
Torso yaw speed +25%

This is my current build on my BJ-Arrow, so I am happy. 40% range increase on MG's is awesome

Edited by Punk Oblivion, 14 February 2015 - 12:50 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

The AC20 quirk should have gone on the BJ-1. Cause, you know, meta Champion Blackjack? Not AC2s. And instead of turning the Arrow into a cbill boosted BJ-1, it should have gotten something unique, like MG and Large Pulse quirks. Or I could see it with Medium Pulse lasers if they want to limit it to a brawling catagory.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

http://mwomercs.com/...-17-2015-patch/

Please check here, we're already gonna get this Tuesday.

[Bhodi Li773]

Punk Oblivion, on 31 January 2015 - 12:26 PM, said:

Yeah, I went to the testing grounds and played around a bit. The "cone" seems to go out to about halfway down the lines on the aiming reticle. MOST the hits seem to be within the circle of the aiming reticle though. So not the best, but not the worst either.

Well the BJ-1 is weak because of the multitude of problems inherent with the AC2 currently. And even if ghost heat was removed and it received a 20% heat reduction it still wouldn't help as two AC2's just isn't that much of a threat, especially when paired with hot lasers. The BJ-1 should have the AC20 quirk. Hopefully this does happen as mentioned above.

I would also take AC2 quirks on the arrow if ghost heat was removed on them. Stacking up 3-4 AC2's with 2-3 machine guns would make the arrow a frightening suppression/clean-up mech. Even if it was fairly slow.

Along with this, too make up for its reduced DPS, how about increasing the screenshake ac2 's cause.It may not increase it's DPS but will make it a more distraction/supprression mech.

[Punk Oblivion]

Bhodi Li773, on 14 February 2015 - 03:36 AM, said:

Along with this, too make up for its reduced DPS, how about increasing the screenshake ac2 's cause.It may not increase it's DPS but will make it a more distraction/supprression mech.

Well ghost heat removal on the AC2 becomes permanent Tuesday! So at least that is a step in the right direction...

However the quirks might change on the BJ-1 anyways, we will see come Tuesday.

[Voq]

Punk Oblivion, on 14 February 2015 - 09:03 AM, said:

Well ghost heat removal on the AC2 becomes permanent Tuesday! So at least that is a step in the right direction...

However the quirks might change on the BJ-1 anyways, we will see come Tuesday.

I'm actually expecting the old Arrow quirks to go to the BJ-1.

[TercieI]

Voq, on 14 February 2015 - 02:45 PM, said:

I'm actually expecting the old Arrow quirks to go to the BJ-1.

You have a lot more faith than I do.

I'm hoping...but not expecting.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

I can't see machine gun range quirks helping all that much. The LPL quirks should be nice, but the draw of the variant is still the 6 ballistics, and range doesn't change the amount of facetime required for MG kills. Damage/crit chance quirks are what MGs need to be viable; getting into range to fire them was never the issue.

[Voq]

PS WrathOfDeadguy, on 14 February 2015 - 04:01 PM, said:

I can't see machine gun range quirks helping all that much. The LPL quirks should be nice, but the draw of the variant is still the 6 ballistics, and range doesn't change the amount of facetime required for MG kills. Damage/crit chance quirks are what MGs need to be viable; getting into range to fire them was never the issue.

I agree with you. The range doesn't make them better weapons. What I do like is it makes the engagement range more flexible.
When the end of the match (i.e. machine gun time) comes around, you previously had to get right into someone's face. That, I found, tended to make you their main target (additionally makes sense since the BJ is so brittle). This way you can maybe hang a bit further back with the rest of the brawlers.

I'd be surprised if we saw crit chance go up... but if they're not going to fix the cone of fire, maybe they'll undo the damage nerf the guns got...

But that's just dreaming.

[Punk Oblivion]

PS WrathOfDeadguy, on 14 February 2015 - 04:01 PM, said:

I can't see machine gun range quirks helping all that much. The LPL quirks should be nice, but the draw of the variant is still the 6 ballistics, and range doesn't change the amount of facetime required for MG kills. Damage/crit chance quirks are what MGs need to be viable; getting into range to fire them was never the issue.

More range = I can be BEHIND my teams assaults and hit targets rather than having to be IN FRONT of the assaults. This saves damage from BOTH sides of my mech haha. Taking an AC20 to the back from a teammate is never a fun time.

[Tim East]

PS WrathOfDeadguy, on 14 February 2015 - 04:01 PM, said:

I can't see machine gun range quirks helping all that much. The LPL quirks should be nice, but the draw of the variant is still the 6 ballistics, and range doesn't change the amount of facetime required for MG kills. Damage/crit chance quirks are what MGs need to be viable; getting into range to fire them was never the issue.

I agree with this guy. Higher range just is going to trick people into suffering more from the spread cone of that weapon system.

[Punk Oblivion]

well I would hope that the cone at max range is still the same as before the boost to range, meaning that if you are closer (Like at the previous 120 range) your accuracy would be BETTER as it is closer in the cone.

[Tim East]

Punk Oblivion, on 15 February 2015 - 04:12 PM, said:

well I would hope that the cone at max range is still the same as before the boost to range, meaning that if you are closer (Like at the previous 120 range) your accuracy would be BETTER as it is closer in the cone.

I highly doubt your hope comes true. Still, I suppose I'll hope the same, since I like MGs and would love anything that makes them less bad.