42 replies to this topic

[Dirk Le Daring]

I have an idea for Lone Wolves and Mercenary Corporations, that does not require a faction (House or Clan) selection.

What I have in mind is to make it so that there can be Lone Wolves and Mercenary corporations in Community Warfare. And they can and should be just that, Lone Wolves and Mercenary Corporations. (No I have not forgotten)

Here is how I see it working, and I think it will draw more people into Community Warfare.

Lone Wolves and members of Mercenary Corporations will go into a bucket to be randomly (sort of) drawn from that pool as is needed by the matchmaker.

Using Lone Wolves as an example, we have a planet th be invaded/defended. The team initiating an attack is short three players, real life popped up and the team needs to fill those places.

At this point the matchmakes selects three Lone Wolves from the bucket to fill the spots, matching the elo as closely as possible, game on.

The same could be said for defenders as well, but the Lone Wolves have no choice as to which planet they are operating on, so they could go anywhere, fighting for anyone. Maybe use the current dropdeck to determine House or Clan side, if the deck is Inner Sphere mechs, then that player will fight for a house, but has no choice as to which one or on what planet they will fight for.

As for rewards, I suggest that the Lone Wolves and Mercenary Corporations get what I would call Reputation Points. Reputation points being in the same spirit as loyalty points. But the reputation points would come at a slower rate to loyalty points.

This would still translate to ranks within the Houses and Clans, but only an honourary title. A lone Wolf would always hold a lower rank than an House or Clan player, for the same amount of reputation points as to loyalty points.

The Lone Wolf, and Mercenary Corporation rank cap could be five levels lower than Houses or Clans. This would reflect the nature of not being a House or Clan member.

The important factor here is not being able to choose who you fight for, thus eliminating the ability to farm sides.

Reputation points would be earned on a per House/Clan basis, and none should ever be lost. (remember the reputation point gain rate is less than it is for house or clan players)

I think this would help to draw more people into Community Warfare, and at the same time reduce the waiting times for the matches.

Any further ideas are greatly welcomed.

EDIT: We have it. PGI changed the mechanic. For example, I can drop into Community Warfare, as a member of my merc unit and NOT have to join a house or clan. Working like freelancers. Excellent work PGI. Loving CW, it's like discovering MechWarrior all over again. BIG smiley face here.

Edited by Dirk Le Daring, 01 May 2016 - 01:53 PM.

[Hades Trooper]

yeah interesting but then u also have the whole signing on with a house side also.

I know there has to be something to be worked out as i know you love your merc badge but idk what can be done but anything that gets people like you into Cw and increases the player base would be only a positive in my eyes

[Mudhutwarrior]

I wont sign for any houses. Got my fill of them and the penalty's for breaking contract . Only play cw if its a one shot deal now.
Not the only one because many in solo chat say the same. To expensive then you have to deal with the tryhards and their demands.

I fly only one flag and its black.


“Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.” ― H.L. Mencken

Edited by Mudhutwarrior, 01 February 2015 - 05:30 AM.

[Prussian Havoc]

Your ideas initially intrigued me and the more I turned it over and examined it from all sides (LOYALIST PoV, MERC PoV, how easy it would be for PGI to implement, etc) the more and more I liked it!

You cover so many facets of this idea (Repudiation points, Faction Caps for Mercenaries, etc) that there is just one suggestion I find I must add for your consideration - your pool of general contract "Mercenary-labor" could be a phantasmic mechanism to best offset disparities in gamer population levels.

PGI has it's work cut out for it when it comes to compensating for disparate Faction gaming populations, currently it is the Contract Bonuses to Loyalty Points and C-bills.

Your proposal brings to mind an option that PGI would have under your concept, it could "weight" each of the Houses by population density - ensuring a flow of Mercenary Troops to where it is needed most. Lightly populated Factions would thusly get MORE Mercenaries as those great Houses who enjoy a "deep bench" receive few Mercenaries.

Also the Matchmaker can work not just in positioning numeric strength with a lightly represent faction, it could take into account a gamers's Community Warfare ELO thus ensuring high quality gamers are more or less evenly distributed... or not.



I like it.
+1

[Alistair Winter]

One of the biggest tragedies of CW is that PGI had a good concept with House mechwarriors, mercenaries and lone wolves, and then diluted it to the point where we're all House mechwarriors with different contracts. The identity of mercenaries and lone wolves is essentially invisible in-game. While they could have offered 3 different experiences, it's now diluted to one experience. The only question is what colour your flag is and how long you want to commit to that colour.

PGI has a history of coming up with great concepts for this game (e.g. role warfare) and then replacing them with something extremely unsophisticated.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 31 December 2015 - 05:39 AM.

[Gyrok]

Dirk Le Daring, on 30 January 2015 - 05:41 PM, said:

I have an idea for Lone Wolves and Mercenary Corporations, that does not require a faction (House or Clan) selection.

What I have in mind is to make it so that there can be Lone Wolves and Mercenary corporations in Community Warfare. And they can and should be just that, Lone Wolves and Mercenary Corporations. (No I have not forgotten)

Here is how I see it working, and I think it will draw more people into Community Warfare.

Lone Wolves and members of Mercenary Corporations will go into a bucket to be randomly (sort of) drawn from that pool as is needed by the matchmaker.

Using Lone Wolves as an example, we have a planet th be invaded/defended. The team initiating an attack is short three players, real life popped up and the team needs to fill those places.

At this point the matchmakes selects three Lone Wolves from the bucket to fill the spots, matching the elo as closely as possible, game on.

The same could be said for defenders as well, but the Lone Wolves have no choice as to which planet they are operating on, so they could go anywhere, fighting for anyone. Maybe use the current dropdeck to determine House or Clan side, if the deck is Inner Sphere mechs, then that player will fight for a house, but has no choice as to which one or on what planet they will fight for.

As for rewards, I suggest that the Lone Wolves and Mercenary Corporations get what I would call Reputation Points. Reputation points being in the same spirit as loyalty points. But the reputation points would come at a slower rate to loyalty points.

This would still translate to ranks within the Houses and Clans, but only an honourary title. A lone Wolf would always hold a lower rank than an House or Clan player, for the same amount of reputation points as to loyalty points.

The Lone Wolf, and Mercenary Corporation rank cap could be five levels lower than Houses or Clans. This would reflect the nature of not being a House or Clan member.

The important factor here is not being able to choose who you fight for, thus eliminating the ability to farm sides.

Reputation points would be earned on a per House/Clan basis, and none should ever be lost. (remember the reputation point gain rate is less than it is for house or clan players)

I think this would help to draw more people into Community Warfare, and at the same time reduce the waiting times for the matches.

Any further ideas are greatly welcomed.

Rep points should be lost instantly upon leaving the faction you were fighting for...

Also, mercenaries should have 2 contract options:

Generic, which would only grant contracts against an opponent of opposite tech type (i.e. clan contracts against IS, IS contracts against Clans). These contracts would be the base pay rate and any faction wide incentives, and anyone can take them.

Unit contracts, this would be a contract placed by a house unit to fight X faction(s) (could be multiple factions), for Y time (or number of planets captured), with signing bonus of Z cbills. Units could incentivize base pay rates as well if desired. Only one unit can take one contract put up by a house unit; however, house units could place multiple contracts.

All mercenary units should be rated by a combination of in game metrics, such as W/L, Victory Margin, successful contract completion, breach of contract, etc. Then, house units would have a separate rating system to vote on efficacy of mercenary corps units, and leave commentary. This would essentially serve as MRBC. Now, house unit votes would never impact the game metric ratings, but would basically be an indicator (with a grain of salt, of course) as to how well they coordinated with the house units, cooperated well, efficacy in achieving goals, etc.

Edited by Gyrok, 18 February 2015 - 07:22 AM.

[Tombstoner]

All i want is to join a que and get assigned. If i join a faction like Davion i shouldn't be fighting a 12 man JF clan.
No reason CW cant have a generic PUG vs PUG cw style fight. Its' way too long to find a match and the short one mech pug vertion is too limited. MWO needs a something to bridge One mech pugs and 4 mech CW.

simply adding one extra mech of the same to the pug que would be interesting.

[Dirk Le Daring]

Gyrok, on 18 February 2015 - 07:21 AM, said:

Rep points should be lost instantly upon leaving the faction you were fighting for...

I disagree, Reputation should stay. Look at it like a racing car champion switching to a different team. They would still be a champion driver, and have the reputation of a champion, but are racing for another team.

Gyrok, on 18 February 2015 - 07:21 AM, said:

Also, mercenaries should have 2 contract options:

Generic, which would only grant contracts against an opponent of opposite tech type (i.e. clan contracts against IS, IS contracts against Clans). These contracts would be the base pay rate and any faction wide incentives, and anyone can take them.

Unit contracts, this would be a contract placed by a house unit to fight X faction(s) (could be multiple factions), for Y time (or number of planets captured), with signing bonus of Z cbills. Units could incentivize base pay rates as well if desired. Only one unit can take one contract put up by a house unit; however, house units could place multiple contracts.

The whole point of my suggestion is to eliminate "contracts" (for mercs), the contract system is the problem for Mercenaries. The Merc simply goes to where he is needed to fill the gap. Like a generic substitute.

Gyrok, on 18 February 2015 - 07:21 AM, said:

All mercenary units should be rated by a combination of in game metrics, such as W/L, Victory Margin, successful contract completion, breach of contract, etc. Then, house units would have a separate rating system to vote on efficacy of mercenary corps units, and leave commentary. This would essentially serve as MRBC. Now, house unit votes would never impact the game metric ratings, but would basically be an indicator (with a grain of salt, of course) as to how well they coordinated with the house units, cooperated well, efficacy in achieving goals, etc.

This is what I mean by Reputation points. As far as units / players rating Mercenaries, and Mercenary Corporations, I had thought of that, but left the idea out, as I can see it has the potential to be abused. Which is a shame really, as I feel it could add a very cool dynamic to the game.

Edited by Dirk Le Daring, 18 February 2015 - 04:36 PM.

[Don Alosi]

Frankly...

... This is a great idea! I love it!

[Dirk Le Daring]

Don Alosi, on 18 February 2015 - 04:44 PM, said:

Frankly...

... This is a great idea! I love it!

Thanks Don, but it needs more input, otherwise PGI will have no reason to look at it. (nor will they wish to)

[Dino Might]

Gyrok, on 18 February 2015 - 07:21 AM, said:

Rep points should be lost instantly upon leaving the faction you were fighting for...

Defeats the purpose of mercenary contracts and a separate ranking system for mercs - your result would simply be "mercs" with a single house affiliation because of the penalties for moving from contract to contract with different houses. This is no better than what we have now.

I like the idea of being in the pool with randomly selected planets - maybe set that as an option, in addition to having specific contracting options. The contracts have more substantial limitations on what the mercs/lonewolves may do (who they may attack and when). This lets mercs still choose who they want to fight for, if they are willing to accept the restrictions and compensation. If none of the available contracts are desired, then the mercs/lonewolves can decide to drop "highest bidder" mode, in which they will be funneled to whichever planet on whichever side will best balance the matches (provided there's still some selection of IS or Clan so the dropdeck situation can be sorted out beforehand).

I would group mercs/lonewolves together for this type of system, because lonewolf contracts should exist as well. It's up to the houses to determine whether they want to pay out more/less/even amounts for lonewolves vs. mercs at various times. Those who don't want or can't get a contract jump into the random pool.

House members determine the long-term goals/strategy of their respective house, but are tied to their house. Mercs and Lonewolves pick and choose where and when they want to sway the balance of power, but have some limitations in doing so.

It's a fantastic suggestion, in my mind. Daring has created a system that allows for 3 different approaches to the overall CW experience without alienating anyone, and it helps fill out more matches to reduce the ghost drops and eternal queuing. It gives everyone a little something.

Please, PGI, read this thread. Daring's is probably the best idea on the matter that I've heard.

Edited by Dino Might, 19 February 2015 - 04:38 AM.

[Dino Might]

Can we keep this coming up to the top until it's discussed and viewed by PGI? I'd say it belongs in suggestion forum, but there's usually no visibility though, and I really don't want the idea to die without due evaluation. I think it has the potential to add greatly to CW while addressing a lot of the concerns about the mechanics of houses, alliances, etc.

[Dirk Le Daring]

Dino Might, on 19 February 2015 - 02:27 PM, said:

Can we keep this coming up to the top until it's discussed and viewed by PGI? I'd say it belongs in suggestion forum, but there's usually no visibility though, and I really don't want the idea to die without due evaluation. I think it has the potential to add greatly to CW while addressing a lot of the concerns about the mechanics of houses, alliances, etc.

After the town hall, not looking good. But I do agree that it would be nice if PGI does read this, and give it consideration. I think that garnering support is worthwhile though, even if PGI are not willing to even look at it.

Considering steam, there will probably be a lot who will balk at the perceived restrictions in CW , being forced to join a faction they know nothing about and care even less for. I'd say that most who are into the Battletech lore are already in the game, and the inflow from steam will consist of players who will not care about lore.

[Dirk Le Daring]

Shameless bump.

[Waylander40K]

Another suggestion for pugs in community warfare (adding it here, as I do like elements of op's suggestion and certainly agree that something needs to be done. Pugs also need to have some protection from total stomp matches).


Add feature pug drop or quick match for solo players (this includes solo players in a unit, as I am and I still like to solo drop now and then)

Once selected you enter a pool.

Where e.g. a Steiner pug
Would be matched preferentially to Steiner activity (attack/defend) or secondly to any IS attack on clan or its defence.
Make it so pugs can only fill groups 2 up/down. E.g. one side a 6 man other side an 8 man can be filled up with pugs, but not say a 6 man against a 10 man (no elo consideration, to keep it simple)

If no groups are found a 12 v 12 pug match is looked at, for any IS/clan contested planet. Based firstly on it being actively contested (i.e. some attacker wins), and secondly on pug makeup (i.e. if more Steiner pugs then Steiner/clan border world considered). To be clearer a IS steiner pug could then be part of a attack on clan from Kurita and contribute to Kurita taking a plant from clan, but not be defence or attack on clan side.


A factionless pug, should also be able quick drop, with some prior mechanisim to prompt them to fill a IS and/or clan drop deck.

Edited by Waylander40K, 27 February 2015 - 07:45 AM.

[Dirk Le Daring]

Waylander40K, on 27 February 2015 - 07:02 AM, said:

Add feature pug drop or quick match for solo players (this includes solo players in a unit, as I am and I still like to solo drop now and then)

Once selected you enter a pool.

Where e.g. a Steiner pug
Would be matched preferentially to Steiner activity (attack/defend) or secondly to any IS attack on clan or its defence.
Make it so pugs can only fill groups 2 up/down. E.g. one side a 6 man other side an 8 man can be filled up with pugs, but not say a 6 man against a 10 man (no elo consideration, to keep it simple)

Good idea to utilise solo faction players. There are no doubt times that they will find themselves alone, so to speak, and still give them the ability to fight for their faction with a casual approach.

[Evilsmirk]

I like the idea for mercs and lone wolves keeping their respective tags. This could be accomplished by if a unit or solo player signs less than a permanent contract the tag doesn't change to that faction.

Unit contracts are fine as they are I think. LW contracts should be offered all the way down to one day, or even for a single cease fire period. No penalty for when the contract expires.

The one day contract would be easier to implement than a PUG bucket to randomly fill spots. Though a 'Play Now" button on the faction tab would be easier for the player base.

There is one issue with a PUG bucket tough. There is only one drop deck. There currently isn't a way to save both a IS and a clan drop deck. Plus editing time is limited once you realize which mode or faction you are fighting.

Great idea though I hope something can be worked out.

[Dirk Le Daring]

Evilsmirk, on 03 March 2015 - 04:16 PM, said:

The one day contract would be easier to implement than a PUG bucket to randomly fill spots. Though a 'Play Now" button on the faction tab would be easier for the player base.

Essentially the "play now" button idea could be in the faction page where the map is seen. Not a bad idea. However I think the bucket would work better, especially when you consider the expected influx form Steam. Most of whom will not care about factions. I do not see how the bucket would be harder to implement though.
The only thing needed is to add, Play Clans , and Play Inner Sphere to the public and private options.

Evilsmirk, on 03 March 2015 - 04:16 PM, said:

There is one issue with a PUG bucket tough. There is only one drop deck. There currently isn't a way to save both a IS and a clan drop deck. Plus editing time is limited once you realize which mode or faction you are fighting.

I see no reason there colud not be two tabs/buttons to the left as in the current mechlab. Both would read, accordingly, Clan Dropdeck, and IS Dropdeck. This should not be difficult.

Edited by Dirk Le Daring, 03 March 2015 - 08:54 PM.

[Dirk Le Daring]

Looks like we will be able to play Community Warfare as Lone Wolves. If you did not hear it yet, it is in the Town Hall for today (near the beginning). Very exciting prospect indeed.

Edited by Dirk Le Daring, 16 April 2015 - 05:40 PM.

[WazOfOz]

Given some of the other things Russ has mentioned in the town hall I.E. 1/1/1/1 ( I take it 1 of each weight class in our drop decks) to try to stop rushing the generator, mention of trying to stop spawn camping and militia V militia so solo droppers are not facing off against 12 man groups. It may be worthwhile visiting CW in the future.