44 replies to this topic

[Kmieciu]

ZenFool, on 03 February 2015 - 05:17 PM, said:

Hey OP, how many mechbays did you just get? Probably more than me. Isn't THAT incentive to keep changing factions?

It takes about CW 3 wins to get a mechbay. And even if you break the shortest contract, you have to play for at least 2 days. Therefore I predict the OP got 7 mechbays.

This is exactly what I'll do now that the secondary rewards were introduced. The only difference is that I'll do it together with my unit :-)

Edited by Kmieciu, 03 February 2015 - 11:35 PM.

[Abivard]

Belkor, on 03 February 2015 - 11:27 PM, said:

Didn't see you whining when the FRR had most of the top comp teams alone which completely stalled most of the clan offensive. Payback is a ***** isn't it?

Are you referring to the 3 FRR loyal Merc units that combined still had less CW players than CI alone? Which is only 1/4th the size of -MS-, which in turn is about equal in size with CGBI?

The merc units that have fought for the FRR have been welcomed and appreciated, but none of them could be called 'Large;' in comparison to the Merc outfits with CGB, when you add in the other merc units that have stayed with clan factions for the most part you will find that the FRR at it's height of population never equaled CGBI in numbers. Let alone all the other clan aligned units.

The exception might be the brief one week stay of the 228. and some other merc units, when we may have briefly equaled CGB numbers, that was the week most of 'wolf' decided CWar wasn't fun and boycotted it, 1 week out of almost 10 weeks of CW.

You are simply trying to spin your "easy street" self out to be players who have overcome the massive odds that were always stacked against them. Stop trying to pretend you choose the hard core and challenging faction instead of the compensated faction.

[Leeroy Mechkins]

What I am concerned about is that units may simply join strong factions to farm PUGs for loyalty rewards.
Say hello to PUG grinding online, a mindless cash register.

Penalty for switching factions, faction rank and loyalty rewards will strongly encourage less and less mobility between factions.
Sure it is interesting from a role-playing perspective.
But it is very worrying to the matchmaker balance!

In a year if everyone is all die-hard for one faction or another, this may lead to extreme imbalances in population and in distribution of units between factions.
This will lead to increase in matchmaking times, and lousy matches where its just UNITs steamrolling PUGs.

All the role playing about trashtalking other factions and identifying with this or that faction may seem harmless, but in the end could really lead to totally messing up the matchmaker.

Oh regarding mech bays, as a Heishi-Sergeant-Kavelrist-Private-Warrior Point 234-Point Commander, I have a ridiculous number hahahahaha

Edited by Leeroy Mechkins, 04 February 2015 - 01:42 AM.

[Belkor]

Abivard, on 04 February 2015 - 12:47 AM, said:

The exception might be the brief one week stay of the 228. and some other merc units, when we may have briefly equaled CGB numbers, that was the week most of 'wolf' decided CWar wasn't fun and boycotted it, 1 week out of almost 10 weeks of CW.

You are simply trying to spin your "easy street" self out to be players who have overcome the massive odds that were always stacked against them. Stop trying to pretend you choose the hard core and challenging faction instead of the compensated faction.

Look at how desperately you're trying to spin and downplay the contributions of the top merc units in FRR. Just 228 and 'some' other merc units? Did you forget Lords and SJR? Two of the strongest merc units in addition to 228. These units combined stalled out the clan offensive by themselves. This is another pretty funny spin "that was the week most of 'wolf' decided CWar wasn't fun and boycotted it" These top units caused both Wolf and Ghost Bear to give up, not just Wolf. Of course now that you don't have the top units babysitting you, you cry. Like I said, payback is a ***** isn't it?

[Ductus Hase]

I try to get ppl to play CW often.
Reasons they tell me to not play this wonderful mode:

"I don´t want to sit in a que that long."
"I play Public - need to grind CBills and XP."
"Do we have a 12man? I am sick of getting stomped by premades all the time."

K... and many just tell me the mode sucks... but I think this is rooted in the reasons above.


Waiting times got improved by PGI by introducing more transparency and Call to Arms.
Stemming against MWOs Elite I often end up with less than I could earn in a Public match... this could be changed.

There should be an incentive for PUGs to bear with getting stomped.
Some reward for holding the line being vastly outmatched by premades for example.
50LP per Premade the other side has more than the own.
One could as well (or instead) make it CBills... 20k per Premade.
When I get rolled by Lord and RJF at least I would get compensated for the frustration... this would also make CW a solid Grindingground for PUGs as well... not only for the big Premades.


Many complain about Mercs changing factions regulary. I know Units who only take up 7Day Contracts... this thread shows the big rewards stemming from this strategy.

Contractpayout could increase for longterm service - why shouldn´t loyal players get better pay?
We do get more LP but apparently that isn´t enough - Houses/Clans should have an interest in keeping relyable Units/Mercs.
5% extra CBills for the second week, 10% for the third, 15% for the forth, 20% thereafter... as an example.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Increase rewards for smaller groups, decrease rewards for larger group (for larger groups rewards shouldn't be a factor anyway)
Increase the rewards based on contract length, give the long term units a reason to be long term if you want to tie the competitive groups and large units have it so that at a certain point of time spent with a unit mechbays are cheaper or small MC are awarded some actual point to staying.

Devise a population cap system, we already know CGB is rather large perhaps too large prevent glory hunters jumping ship to GB further bolstering their numbers and even out the current imbalanced populations.

Edited by DV McKenna, 04 February 2015 - 06:21 AM.

[Leeroy Mechkins]

Right now it appears most of the best units are all in the Clans. LORDS, MS, not to mention the excellent faction-themed Ghost Bear, Jade Falcon, Wolf and Smoke Jaguar units.

This is resulting in too many one-sided matches that turn off newcomers to CW, and that is bad for the game.
If this becomes a continued trend, I am concerned for the future of CW.

There are strong mechanisms to PREVENT movement, and only weak incentives to ENCOURAGE movement to weaker factions. This is a concern.

Edited by Leeroy Mechkins, 04 February 2015 - 08:20 AM.

[Summon3r]

Leeroy Mechkins, on 03 February 2015 - 09:14 AM, said:

After Trying 7 Different Factions, Here is what I Discovered:

• Its bad to have population imbalance between Clans and IS, because it leads to difficulty getting CW matches.
  
• Its bad to have all the units going to certain factions, leaving certain factions mostly PUG. For example the FRR vs Ghost Bear right now is a joke. Many units on Ghost Bear side, very few on FRR, so its always PUG vs UNIT and loss.

What I mean is that there needs to be movement of players towards the less populated factions.

And there needs to be incentives for units to move around to the factions with less units.
Otherwise its a very unbalanced experience.

Yes, I know many players and units want to role-play a single faction and never change.
But its actually very bad for the CW matchmaker.

they have done nothing about how mercs work and its not even in the feb road map :-/ .... until there is a reason at all for mercs to be actually hired anywhere nothing will change.

[Dino Might]

Gyrok, on 03 February 2015 - 09:27 AM, said:

Not to be too blunt about it, but there are entirely too many undedicated players that drop for both sides, making the current scenario pretty much garbage for the dedicated players.

Doth my ears deceive me? Or have you just voiced one of the most condescending posts towards the core game population that we depend on to even have a game? You skipped biting the hand that feeds you and went straight Hellfire missile on it. But really, do tell us how you feel about the unwashed masses corrupting Care-a-Lot.



Without casual players, we don't have a game. The core constituency of people that want to dedicate their lives to pixel punching is enough to power the lights in an imaginary building. More posts like that and I'm going to start calling you Love-a-Lot Bear.

Sincerely,
Your Star Buddy, Dino

[Mirkk Defwode]

Leeroy Mechkins, on 03 February 2015 - 09:24 AM, said:

Yes, the incentives don't seem to work well for players to move factions.

Also, there are no incentives for units to go to the factions with less units.
For example Draconis Combine and FRR are seriously devoid of units now.
Its usually PUG vs UNIT, the units are simply farming for creds.

Even worse, units may fight the weaker factions to farm them, making the imbalance worse.
Not to mention, plenty of role-players want penalties for moving factions.

So these are bad factors for CW matchmaking.

I recognize there is a rewards system in place, but I have no sense of how it drives anyone from one faction to another as it doesn't have easily recognizable visibility or information passed to the user. The last time I resigned for the faction contract I just picked the same one as I had progression toward getting all the stuff from it. Didn't see a good reason to change.

[Heinreich]

Gyrok, on 03 February 2015 - 09:27 AM, said:

Not to be too blunt about it, but there are entirely too many undedicated players that drop for both sides, making the current scenario pretty much garbage for the dedicated players.

Dino Might, on 04 February 2015 - 08:40 AM, said:

Doth my ears deceive me? Or have you just voiced one of the most condescending posts towards the core game population that we depend on to even have a game? You skipped biting the hand that feeds you and went straight Hellfire missile on it. But really, do tell us how you feel about the unwashed masses corrupting Care-a-Lot.

I don't know if this is what he really meant, but I read that as "too many players not caring about factions and just want to stomp people with guildmates (the undedicated) making it harder for those who do care about factions/lore (the dedicated)".

[ArchSight]

Leeroy Mechkins, on 03 February 2015 - 09:14 AM, said:

After Trying 7 Different Factions, Here is what I Discovered:

• Its bad to have population imbalance between Clans and IS, because it leads to difficulty getting CW matches.
  
• Its bad to have all the units going to certain factions, leaving certain factions mostly PUG. For example the FRR vs Ghost Bear right now is a joke. Many units on Ghost Bear side, very few on FRR, so its always PUG vs UNIT and loss.

What I mean is that there needs to be movement of players towards the less populated factions.



And there needs to be incentives for units to move around to the factions with less units.
Otherwise its a very unbalanced experience.

Yes, I know many players and units want to role-play a single faction and never change.
But its actually very bad for the CW matchmaker.

I see the same thing while playing from only one faction's perspective. CSJ was the low population faction before and now it's not anymore. Joined when it was 100% bonus c bills and now it's 50% bonus c bills but have invested time in helping to get planets for this faction and got familiar with the player's in it. It's hard to leave all that work and dedication behind.

Instead of having player's leave their factions how about increasing population in the IS vs Clan planets. Making IS and Clan battles have joint operations of not only allowing IS factions or Clan factions to defend planets together that are under attack but also attack together to push back the Clan or IS invasions.

It would increase the amount of battles each faction can participate in and especially those factions that don't have a clan border yet. It would allow other factions to help push back on attack planets for lower population factions.

I made this suggestion awhile ago and polled it in feature suggestions.

Other ways in a possible form of balancing player populations is getting in a Mercenary system that isn't keeping them to fighting for only one faction but maybe four factions at a time. Yet again increasing the amount of battles that a unit can participate in to help with faction population numbers. This would create two different types of player's in CW. The Mercenary vs the loyalist which player's already dealing with in short vs long term contracts in small way where getting player's to fight longer with a faction for increasing population for that faction's success. How would these two type of player's be different in order to equally incentives both existences instead of having all unit's be only one specific kind while the other is left under played?

I would suggest Mercs could be allowed to fight more battles for many factions but get less pay out because they get to fight more battles to gain more C bills. Then loyalist would get more pay out but have less opportunity to get more battles from other factions. The difference can be a time commitment like free to play player grinds for more rewards vs a player with a bought premium time that gets more rewards but less time to do battles due to real life work.

[C E Dwyer]

There is no real incentive to stay loyal to any faction, the reward system that PGI claim to be complete, and very broken, rewards disloyalty.

I could jump ship and get lots of cockpit items free mech bays, but I won't, I buck the trend and stay LC regardless of how great or poorly the Lyran comonwealth do.

other will use the system PGI put in place and show zero loyalty to unything in the quest for virtual goods.

Loyalty isn't rewarded in CW, regardless of whether its a low or high populated faction.

I just think it demonstrates, again, PGI's total lack of understanding of what makes a good Campaign

[Abivard]

Dino Might, on 04 February 2015 - 08:40 AM, said:

Doth my ears deceive me? Or have you just voiced one of the most condescending posts towards the core game population that we depend on to even have a game? You skipped biting the hand that feeds you and went straight Hellfire missile on it. But really, do tell us how you feel about the unwashed masses corrupting Care-a-Lot.



Without casual players, we don't have a game. The core constituency of people that want to dedicate their lives to pixel punching is enough to power the lights in an imaginary building. More posts like that and I'm going to start calling you Love-a-Lot Bear.

Sincerely,
Your Star Buddy, Dino

Let me translate this into real speak:

No matter how much Dino and his ilk trash talk the pugs in match, the public face in print must always be that they are great and the game can't exist with out them. It must never be said on the forums that the op and his ilk make their living off of farming pugs, Instead Dino and cronies must cast themselves as the "guardians" of pugs and newbs and not show their teeth until they have fleeced the sheep.

[Dino Might]

Abivard, on 04 February 2015 - 04:48 PM, said:

Let me translate this into real speak:

No matter how much Dino and his ilk trash talk the pugs in match, the public face in print must always be that they are great and the game can't exist with out them. It must never be said on the forums that the op and his ilk make their living off of farming pugs, Instead Dino and cronies must cast themselves as the "guardians" of pugs and newbs and not show their teeth until they have fleeced the sheep.

I guess you had a bad experience in a match with me or some from my unit? My apologies. If you let me know what I happened to say in particular, I'd be more than happy to offer a personal apology for offending you so.

Depending on how much you run solo queue, you'll see me pugging in my Locust all the time. Sorry I tend to play with my unit a lot in CW. They happen to be great people to hang out with and we enjoy the same games. If playing on a team is too much of an exploit for ya, solo queue is still there, and you will find me in it as well.

Also, if you ever want a friendly 1v1, I'm all for running some duels. Just friend me in game and we'll have some laughs with mechs, drinks, and hijinks.

As always,
Keeper of the Care Meter,
Dino

[ShinVector]

Ductus Hase, on 04 February 2015 - 02:24 AM, said:

When I get rolled by Lord and RJF at least I would get compensated for the frustration... this would also make CW a solid Grindingground for PUGs as well... not only for the big Premades.

Did I get that right ? Reward PUGs for being bad ?
When are people going to realise that in order to get good at CW, you need to coordination of an organised team.
Else public drops is just a click away.

[Dino Might]

ShinVector, on 05 February 2015 - 07:47 PM, said:

Did I get that right ? Reward PUGs for being bad ?
When are people going to realise that in order to get good at CW, you need to coordination of an organised team.
Else public drops is just a click away.

Mighty big assumption lumping everyone playing solo as "bad." Firstly, many in the regular queue that play solo are quite good and would trounce the lot of us in a head to head. Secondly, there have been plenty of instances of 12-man teams getting beaten by small groups or even the 12-solos.

And lastly, what is your problem with rewarding bad players, possibly giving them a leg up so they can get out of the trial mechs and into something customized? Do you really need to always have an equipment advantage to maintain your rightful place in the grand MWO tryhararchy^TM?

Reward players for being bad? Yes, please. Let's help them get better faster and have more good matches. It's not a zero-sum game. You lose nothing from someone else getting a little extra.

[ShinVector]

Dino Might, on 05 February 2015 - 08:34 PM, said:

Mighty big assumption lumping everyone playing solo as "bad." Firstly, many in the regular queue that play solo are quite good and would trounce the lot of us in a head to head. Secondly, there have been plenty of instances of 12-man teams getting beaten by small groups or even the 12-solos.

And lastly, what is your problem with rewarding bad players, possibly giving them a leg up so they can get out of the trial mechs and into something customized? Do you really need to always have an equipment advantage to maintain your rightful place in the grand MWO tryhararchy^TM?

Reward players for being bad? Yes, please. Let's help them get better faster and have more good matches. It's not a zero-sum game. You lose nothing from someone else getting a little extra.

If by rewards to bad players in turn means superb rewards to good solo players... By all means, make it so..
Else... It like giving a fat paycheck to someone who doesn't want to work for it.

You don't need to 'win' in MWO to get good at it...
It is a matter of looking at the end score and reflecting... Did I actually contribute to the match ?
You will notice that the better and faster you get at killing mech naturally helps your win/loss ratio.

Alternative route is be a derp in usually in lights and win the match through the alternate objectives. Yes. I am referring to assault base cap and conquest. There wasa time me and a buddy of mine used to beat ultra OP groups... Our team gets litterally pulverised in a 1 min... Two AC40 Jagers sneak around to their base and gave a big surprise to those few fast guys that come back to defend... Sneaky stuff lost it charm that moment seismic and base turrets got introduced though..

The only reason you are not getting good match is because:
1. MM is wonky and has problems balancing teams in MWO.
2. Some groups legally game the system by packing as many high elo players in their drop group, when that happens, MM usually gives up (after a certain time limit when it can't find a similarly high elo group) and matches them against the closest elo average possible.

Edited by ShinVector, 05 February 2015 - 09:57 PM.

[jaxjace]

Im in it for the 50 million cbills and 2500MC and 25000 GXP at rank 20. as well as the millions i make on the way there.

[The Choppa]

I love having to wait literally hours for a fight
I love getting utterly stomped 48-0 because I solo que

But the best part would have to be enduring the endless streams of belittlement and ****-talking from these premades. Really makes the whole endeavour worth my while.

And the rewards for losing your way to rank 2! wow!