45 replies to this topic

[Sleipnir]

Before I start: yes the clans are a while away (if they ever get here, though I'm sure they will) and it's not a concern atm...BUT...

If the clan's are introduced and, as with the canon, have superior mechs and technology - the IS has no chance when it comes to a game format like MWO, right?

Well what if Zellbrigen (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Zellbrigen) could be implemented in such a way as to encourage fair play?

I've seen a few people posting threads mentioning the practice, but haven't found any with solutions to the problem, so here goes...

What if there was some form of "honour/reputation" system, whereby if a team is down to a single man and outnumbered, they have the option to call for Zellbrigen? So for example, you're the last on your team and you have 4 opponents left. You have a message on the hud saying "call for Zellbrigen - push F5" or whatever.

The enemy team can then "vote" to initiate or decline. If they accept, they then vote for the first opponent and so on. If this takes place, every gains some form of faction / c-bill bonus, reduced repairs or some other incentive. If not and they decide to decline; no harm, no foul.

If they accept, then someone breaks it, they incur some form of penalty.


What are your thoughts? It seems like a cool way of introducing duels, and encouraging balanced play against superior technology. (This of course assuming that the dev's don't allow IS mechs to equip for clan weaponry, etc.)



Edited for grammar/spelling.

Edited by Sleipnir, 29 June 2012 - 06:41 AM.

[skamage]

What's the incentive for accepting a call for Zellbrigen? I mean above winning the contract by killing the last guy? Is it going to give in addition to what you have already earned?

I would say if they call for Zellbrigen then the match goes to the other team. Then it's a way for the losing team to gain some more c-bills or the winning to gain as well also.

Edited by skamage, 29 June 2012 - 06:46 AM.

[Sleipnir]

skamage, on 29 June 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

What's the incentive for accepting a call for Zellbrigen? I mean above winning the contract by killing the last guy? Is it going to give in addition to what you have already earned?

I would say if they call for Zellbrigen then the match goes to the other team. Then it's a way for the losing team to gain some more c-bills or the winning to gain as well also.

That's not a bad idea. It could still be called a forfeit, but then the disadvantaged team has a chance of gaining maybe reduced repairs or something? I'm just throwing an idea out there to see if the Dev's could maybe incorporate it into the game.

[fluffypinkbunny]

A true warrior who lives by the sword, dies by the same sword, asking for somebody to take it EASY on you, because your team looses, is like asking not to be bullied.

[skamage]

Oh yeah, don't confuse my questioning for not liking the idea. Just trying to see how it would play out.

fluffypinkbunny, on 29 June 2012 - 06:51 AM, said:

A true warrior who lives by the sword, dies by the same sword, asking for somebody to take it EASY on you, because your team looses, is like asking not to be bullied.

Hey if it's a chance for me to get more credits then I'm all for it. Us mercs don't care too much about honor when there's an incentive.

[BenEEeees VAT GROWN BACON]

I don't see this as an IS thing. As it stand, only 33% of people polled would honour the Zellbrigen LOL

[Kael Tropheus]

Its fairly easy to implement. I have posted this elsewhere but here we go. Clan economics revolve around honor. Seeing as most clan warriors are not paid and find trading a distasteful practice of the lesser castes. Honor is gained during fights in a similar way that IS pilots earn C-bills just for simplicities sake and they can spend this honor to requisition new mechs, make repairs, ammo etc.

As for Zell when the first shot is fired at an enemy mech, that targetted mech's icon changes color(like WoW does once a target is engaged, simple). If a starmate fires upon and hits the same mech, a Grand Melee begins and it is a free for all. That pilot that broke Zell takes a 75% honor penalty for the overall match. If that penalty isnt severe enough, perhaps 80-85% penalty. It needs to be high enough to actually discourage breaking Zell.

Furthermore to reflect clan behavior in trying to out do each other a clan mech pilot recieves a progressive bonus or penalty on Honor points based on the size of the enemy mechs they take down. A Puma pilot will get massive bonus points for taking out an Atlas, while a Dire Wolf pilot might not get any honor for taking out a Commando, but they wont lose any either, an enemy mech is still an enemy mech. An equal tonnage matchup would be the base honor gained for destroying the enemy and then go up or down based on that, maybe 5% per 5 tons.

This is a very simple and self regulating method of control for the clans. You wont see near as many munchkins or power gamers play for long when they cant afford to repair their Dire Wolves because they got stupid or didnt pay attention to the code, those players will eventually get mad at the restrictive but fluff accurate system and go back to playing IS mechs.

Edited by Kael Tropheus, 29 June 2012 - 06:55 AM.

[Sleipnir]

fluffypinkbunny, on 29 June 2012 - 06:51 AM, said:

A true warrior who lives by the sword, dies by the same sword, asking for somebody to take it EASY on you, because your team looses, is like asking not to be bullied.

It's not taking it easy. It's a chance to prove that you have the necessary skills to take down your opponents in a fair fight. And I did say this could be voted for/against by the opposing team - so if you don't want to, just squish the dude and get it over with lol.

[skamage]

Kael,

I really like that idea. Although not rewarding for other team, it keeps the clanners honest to the canon.

[Sleipnir]

Just another thought, but what if you accumulated honour, if a fashion like Kael Thropheus suggests, and that allows you discounts to items/repairs/etc. above a certain threshold (say 5k honour?).

[Ubertron X]

Clans can Zellbrigen their own all day long.

If you want to balance Clan vs. IS this needs to be done like in the canon, i.e. using numerical superiority. Two lances of 3050+ equipped mechs vs each star or 3 lances if 3025 tech is used.

And now send in the flying Altas scout lance to roflstomp any claner who comes up with such a silly idea in front of my mechs weapons.

[CCC Dober]

@Kael
It sounds good, but imagine a troll in a Clan Mech that just shoots targets randomly to break Zell on purpose. It shouldn't penalize players that stuck to it and neither should it affect their gains. This is from a fair play point of view. By all means, I wouldn't mind to see the Clanner who breaks Zell have his reactor deactivated for 2 minutes to contemplate the code of honor. Hopefully that's long enough that he gets blown apart to rub the lesson in. Harsh, but effective.

Edited by CCC Dober, 29 June 2012 - 07:20 AM.

[Outrider01]

lol at honor in war, lol at fairplay in a video game. Doubt many will oblige by it, already thinking to many "OMG! DEVS MAKE HONOR MEAN SOMETHING CAUSE EVERONE KEEPS REFUSING IT!!!" or "OMG! DEVS NEED TO NERF CLAN MECHS! THEY ARE TO OVERPOWERED AND SHOULD NEVER TAKE DOWN 3 GUYS BY THEMSELVES!!!" . Yeah, just don't see any balance or enforcement to get it to work.

[Schtirlitz]

Nice idea.
Have you posted it in suggestions section?

[Kael Tropheus]

Only the troll would be screwed in that case as the clan should be outnumbered anyway, and the troll wont be getting jack for honor to requisition repairs with. They have said a mech will be drivable, the devs have not said whether destroyed weapons will be usable in the next match without repairs.(hoping for a no on that one)

Yes

Edited by Kael Tropheus, 29 June 2012 - 07:31 AM.

[CCC Dober]

@Outrider
So you're cool with trolling and mocking players that want this universe to become alive? Is that it?
How was that a constructive post at all?

[TimberJon]

Sleipnir, on 29 June 2012 - 06:48 AM, said:

That's not a bad idea. It could still be called a forfeit, but then the disadvantaged team has a chance of gaining maybe reduced repairs or something? I'm just throwing an idea out there to see if the Dev's could maybe incorporate it into the game.

I remember mentioning this somewhere. Someone was enforcing the concept of honorable 1on1 combat.. in this game.

I thought that It wouldn't be a bad idea if the game provided the ability for Pilot A to send a LOS based "Call for Surrender" to Pilot B. Pilot B had the option to key in a sequence that would forfeit his 'Mech for the battle, and the commander to do so for the whole team. There might be some gameplay balance issues but then a rogue pilot couldn't do this unless prompted by the call for surrender.

The benefit could be X more XP to the pilot / team who gained the successful surrender. And for the quitter, reduced XP (but not C-Bills), in addition to the reduced repair cost of not needing to rebuild his otherwise destroyed ride.

Edited by TimberJon, 29 June 2012 - 07:41 AM.

[skamage]

CCC Dober, on 29 June 2012 - 07:38 AM, said:

@Outrider
So you're cool with trolling and mocking players that want this universe to become alive? Is that it?
How was that a constructive post at all?

Better to just ignore them. Don't feed the trolls.

[Arganosh]

I am in a light I am the last of my team to be killed. So I call for Zellbrigen, So I then do everything to avoid combat and run out the game timer and cause there to be a draw. so I make you lose. yeah I'd go for it.

[Keyne]

Here's an idea: Clan players don't earn c-bills from matches, they earn honor. Honor can be used Yo unlock new mechs, new tech, pilot skills, etc. Furthermore, honor is earned through preforming well while abiding by the rules of Zellibrigen. If you don't follow clan rules of engagement, honor is deducted. Honor should be built up, but not spent like c-bills are. Thoughts?