65 replies to this topic

[Amsro]

Lordred, on 05 February 2015 - 12:10 AM, said:

Then you have nothing against no ghost heat on the ac2.

AC/2 still needs less heat tho. Fun times to be sure.

[G SE7EN7]

Turns out you can have too much dakka,

Jager 4xAC2 >>>>> Crab 6xAC2

[Duke Nedo]

3x AC2 needs to significantly out-dps 2x AC5, otherwise they will never ever be a viable option... but happy happy Paul is addressing them!!

[DasSibby]

Better... But the AC5 still outclasses the AC2 in almost every way.

If the AC2 either fired quicker, or had it's heat reduced so it's a much cooler weapon, that'd be perfect. (Leading to each gun having different strengths...)

[John MatriX82]

Gauvan, on 04 February 2015 - 12:56 PM, said:

I'm glad that under performing weapons are getting a balance pass and I think heat scaling is a very valid way to go about it. But, I like heat scaling overall as a balance mechanic and I'd hate to see it it gotten rid of.

Heat scale/ghost heat must go away.
The only other way to avoid 6xsrm6, uber LRM boats, 6 LL, 4-6 PPCs builds is to restrict hardpoints so that a stock ML can't become a PPC or a LL and Missiles should be limited to fixed amount tubes racks on the mechs. Eg: Stalkers originally came with SRM6 -6 tubes- on side torsoes and 10 tubes on each arm -> it means you're limited to 2xLRM10s/2xLRM6 + 2xSRM6s/LRM5s, unless specific variants allow 20 tubes on each arm like 4N (or 3H I don't remember). The same for ballistics and so on.. To avoid extremely strict builds you could count and dinamically address the number of hardpoint slots so that if you can mount dual AC5s on two ballistics slots (8 ballistic slots), you can invest and mount a single Gauss Rifle + AC2/Mgun (7 slots on one hardpoint, 1 available on the other one). If you manage to use all the critical slots on one hardpoint, any other ballistic mount becomes unavailable. Done. Basically few mechs could use more than 2/3 ppcs, more than dual gauss or dual AC20 (and mostly only one of these weapons).

Edited by John MatriX82, 05 February 2015 - 02:48 AM.

[Metalice99]

So I've briefly tested a quad AC/2 Cataphract 4x and a hex AC/2 King Crab, using a macro for maximum dakka;

Both are pretty awful when it comes to applied DPS. Damage tends to get spread all over (and around) the intended target. Firing together, you can time your shots a little better, and all rounds hitting one spot make for better application of DPS. Seems a little underpowered if anything (requiring 6 weapons at 6 tons each to cause damage rather than a minor annoyance).

But OH MY GOD its fun to spray that amount of lead down range and seeing the enemy hit full reverse and duck back behind a corner. Makes it a good suppressive fire weapon to support your teammates. I'll have to try mixing calibres to pump out more deeps.

tl:dr I LOVE the no ghost heat AC/2's, and if anything are still underpowered. But fun is back.

[Oni74]

I ran around in a shadowhawk with 3xac2 last night for the fun of it. It was just that. fun, but not impressive in terms of oomph.
If you enjoy staying at 500m+ ranges and providing direct suppressing fire support while your brawlers get into pow-wow range, this is it. If you're looking to rapid-fire 20mm shells to brawl, you're going to be disappointed in the outcome.

[Papapeshu]

YAY! It's viable again!

[luigi256]

Well I got a 6 kill 998 damage match in my 5 AC 2 King Crab yesterday so I'm happy enough with the change.

[Big Tin Man]

Onij74, on 05 February 2015 - 06:47 AM, said:

I ran around in a shadowhawk with 3xac2 last night for the fun of it. It was just that. fun, but not impressive in terms of oomph. If you enjoy staying at 500m+ ranges and providing direct suppressing fire support while your brawlers get into pow-wow range, this is it. If you're looking to rapid-fire 20mm shells to brawl, you're going to be disappointed in the outcome.

I was running the same shadowhawk last night. Agree completely. Rattling cages and providing suppressing fire was fun, but I don't think I broke 450 damage or got that many kills. The screenshake nerf a while back really killed the main reason to take it, as a distraction while other weapons did real damage.

FWIW, as ineffective as the AC/2 is per ton at the moment, it needs a buff beyond removing ghost heat. Maybe projectile speed buff so reaching out to 1000+ m is possible?

[Mystere]

Paul Inouye, on 04 February 2015 - 10:45 AM, said:

As of last patch, the Inner Sphere Autocannon 2 and the Clan Ultra Autocannon 2 had their Heat Scale removed. As of today we just added the Clan (Regular) Autocannon 2 to that list.

Please note: This temporary change is for testing purposes. Temporary changes like this are done server side and the client does not override the values. This means that the information in MechLab when equipping more than 2 AC2's is incorrect. There is no Heat Scale but the MechLab warning widget will say there is. Another thing is that the 0 Heat Scale values do not carry over into Training Grounds. Training Grounds are 100% client authoritative so you WILL see Heat Scale in Training Grounds.

That being said, go get your dakka-dakka on!

In a somewhat related note ( ), is there an ETA on when Clan LBXs get to fire solid and scatter shots, so we can be rid of this Clan "regular" autocannon business?

[Felicitatem Parco]

PEOPLE!!!

This meant to address cases where you have 1 AC/2 in the left arm, and 1 AC/2 in the right arm, and they would trigger ghost heat when fired off-sync. It stops 2xAC/2 from engaging ghost heat when you fire one arm before the other.

It's a very welcome fix, and will allow us to actually use several Mechs as they are intended to be used.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 05 February 2015 - 11:31 AM.

[happy mech]

great thing

[jay35]

A good start. Heat scale is still very high on the AC2 considering its actual performance. They are still held back by heat, but removing ghost heat is a good start and no reason to bring it back. This test change can be made permanent.

[Punk Oblivion]

Prosperity Park, on 05 February 2015 - 11:31 AM, said:

PEOPLE!!!

This meant to address cases where you have 1 AC/2 in the left arm, and 1 AC/2 in the right arm, and they would trigger ghost heat when fired off-sync. It stops 2xAC/2 from engaging ghost heat when you fire one arm before the other.

It's a very welcome fix, and will allow us to actually use several Mechs as they are intended to be used.

This! I had some fun with the hex AX2 KGC, but I am back to using a 4-AC5/2-AC2 build on my KGC-000. This thing is brutal now that I don't have to worry about my AC2's triggering ghost heat from firing at different times!

[Felicitatem Parco]

I am extremely happy that Ghost Heat was removed because I view this change as a Bug Fix. I do not see it as anything but.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 05 February 2015 - 01:29 PM.

[IG 88]

now apply this to lrm 5
and small laser

Edited by IG 88, 05 February 2015 - 03:23 PM.

[Big Tin Man]

IG 88, on 05 February 2015 - 03:23 PM, said:

now apply this to lrm 5 and small laser

psst. IS small laser and SPLS don't have ghost heat.

[WhiskeySix]

Time to bring back my favorite heavy...saaaaaawwwwwwwwweeeeeeeeeeeeeet

[Kmieciu]

Fun fact:

If the AC2 heat was reduced by 50%, it would still be less heat efficient than AC5. You just can't beat 5 damage for 1 heat ratio.

Fun fact II:

DRG-1N (2xAC5+2xML) has more DPS than 6xAC2 Crab.

DRG-1N (2xAC5+2xML): 21.3/11.5 (max DPS, sustained DPS) enough ammo for 1875 damage
KGC-000 (6xAC2) 19 / 6.2 (max DPS, sustained DPS) enough ammo for 1800 damage

Edited by Kmieciu, 05 February 2015 - 11:26 PM.