65 replies to this topic

[QueenBlade]

Do not judge yourself by the friends you have, but by the enemies you make.

[Kain Demos]

Jaroth Corbett, on 09 February 2015 - 04:12 AM, said:

let me fix that for you:

Do not forgot that it was mercenaries, who being allowed to fight for the Clans by PGI totally against the lore, selected Ghost Bear as their faction of choice without the knowledge or consent of said faction, that first took other Clan worlds, starting on the second day of Operation Revival when they attacked both Clan Wolf and us, Clan Smoke Jaguar while the members of Clan Ghost Bear were still trying to figure out how the whole CW thing worked.

Nice to find you in this thread while in others you defend MS trolling by insisting that their actions have actually NOT instigated distrust of CGB in its neighbors.

[Ghogiel]

Jaroth Corbett, on 09 February 2015 - 04:12 AM, said:

let me fix that for you:

Do not forgot that it was mercenaries, who being allowed to fight for the Clans by PGI totally against the lore, selected Ghost Bear as their faction of choice without the knowledge or consent of said faction, that first took other Clan worlds, starting on the second day of Operation Revival when they attacked both Clan Wolf and us, Clan Smoke Jaguar while the members of Clan Ghost Bear were still trying to figure out how the whole CW thing worked.

CSJ had this too. Some merc unit attacking CGB, then my unit has been accused by merc units trying to **** stir of not defending against CBG attacks and 'selling planets'. I lol'd. Like why would anyone defend a planet some poxy unit/s started a fight all on their own, and then didn't even stick around to defend?

FYI I've defended against CGB on all attacks planets CSJ have taken from the IS though because that is entirely different imo. So when RCGB pull a sneak hopefully a few JGx is online to push their **** in.



good fights though with and against the russians :>

[Jaroth Corbett]

Kain Thul, on 09 February 2015 - 08:48 AM, said:

Nice to find you in this thread while in others you defend MS trolling by insisting that their actions have actually NOT instigated distrust of CGB in its neighbors.

What nonsense are you talking about? I have said at the onset that we have no way to control the mercs. Link me to what to what you are referring to.

[Kain Demos]

http://mwomercs.com/...t/page__st__320

[Jaroth Corbett]

Wow that went right over your head didn't it?

I said WE as in CGBI.

[Noesis]

Jaroth Corbett, on 09 February 2015 - 10:34 AM, said:

Wow that went right over your head didn't it?

I said WE as in CGBI.

Comprehension is not Clan Wolf's strong point Jaroth. They look at things and interpret a completely illogical premise and then go on to believe it as truth.

Trying to clarify or actually confirm your stance is not even in their mental schema it seems. Just happy to speculate and live in cloud cukoo land. And if you do try to correct their error, they simply call you a troll.

[cynical]But they know all the facts of course. We are totally ignorant of our own intent.[/cynical]

I've said it once I'll say it again, this is why mercs will assist CGB as they will at least listen to the objectives of others even if they themsleves are not following it or consider having the capability to "control" these events. Clan Wolf is simply living in some fantasy land thinking it can do no wrong and that it is in fact everyone else who is at fault with their own affairs. It is this ignorance, lack of simple respect and discourteous/insulting treatment shown to others however that has landed them in poor relations with other groups. Including the very reason why MERCs aggressed them in the first place.

Edited by Noesis, 09 February 2015 - 10:55 AM.

[Kain Demos]

Jaroth Corbett, on 09 February 2015 - 10:34 AM, said:

Wow that went right over your head didn't it?

I said WE as in CGBI.

I have dropped against several mixed MS/CGBI groups and now MS is saying they took CGBI guys with them to the IS--your units are apparently more intertwined that many think.

EDIT: I do not want to hijack someone else's thread. If you wish to discuss further take it to PM.

Edited by Kain Thul, 09 February 2015 - 11:02 AM.

[Noesis]

Kain Thul, on 09 February 2015 - 10:57 AM, said:

I have dropped against several mixed MS/CGBI groups and now MS is saying they took CGBI guys with them to the IS--your units are apparently more intertwined that many think.

EDIT: I do not want to hijack someone else's thread. If you wish to discuss further take it to PM.

CGBI only got involved since relations broke down with your Clan. You retaliated and agressed CGB planets as a result of the MERC actions and called CGBI out when it first was only just MERCs attacking.

I believe though best for CGBI to confirm their involvement is that they where responding to the defensive needs of their space. The MERCs then causing CW to go aggressive, but CW who aggrovated MERCs into attacking them that started it all.

Please don't confuse the status quo of misstrust that exist between CW and CGB now and confuse how all of this arose and was as a result of Clan Wolf's stupidity and actions in the first place. Especially when as per the mechanics of the game as has been understood that Clan loyalist can not control how MERCs engage with others.

This has been mentioned as a salient point from multiple organisations and players, even with MERCs themselves confirming a need for MRBC and other initiatives to give MERCs a better association and understanding with MWO.

All your doing is twisting the facts in an out of order or timely manner to suit your purposes. Either that or you simply arent keeping a handle on events or the reasons behind why these things transpired. Mostly I belive since you deny the idea that you where the original troublemakers in this affair and have been ongoing insulting groups and players all with a design to point the finger of blame elsewhere as opposed to being honourable enough to accept and be responsible for you own actions.

[Jaroth Corbett]

I have explained myself. If you want to talk more, I have no problem with you shooting me a PM.

[hybrid black]

Kain Thul, on 09 February 2015 - 10:57 AM, said:

I have dropped against several mixed MS/CGBI groups and now MS is saying they took CGBI guys with them to the IS--your units are apparently more intertwined that many think.

EDIT: I do not want to hijack someone else's thread. If you wish to discuss further take it to PM.

a lot of CGBI has no interest in CW, many of the CGBI that want to play CW came with us till there unit comes back to play.

[hybrid black]

Noesis, on 09 February 2015 - 10:53 AM, said:

I've said it once I'll say it again, this is why mercs will assist CGB as they will at least listen to the objectives of others even if they themsleves are not following it or consider having the capability to "control" these events. Clan Wolf is simply living in some fantasy land thinking it can do no wrong and that it is in fact everyone else who is at fault with their own affairs. It is this ignorance, lack of simple respect and discourteous/insulting treatment shown to others however that has landed them in poor relations with other groups. Including the very reason why MERCs aggressed them in the first place.

to be honest MercStar is now on good terms with many of the important wolf units, due to the lack of attacks and algorithm problems they now see why we attacked them so long ago to start all this. I can not speak for all in MercStar but many of us look forward to working with wolf, the improvement of many of there units and players has impressed us and we can not wait to drop with them and learn from each other.

[Noesis]

Good for you Hybrid, but it doesnt change the innacuracies or the way in which they have misstreated people with their history of insulting and dishonourable behaviour with fallacies being thrown around like confetti. Even GK now having a turn in avoiding to recognise their attacks on Kurita in terms of what this means to be dishonourable in an attempt to discredit others.

MS can do what they like and all the best to you as a MERC unit, but the Dark Born has no immediate concerns in supporting Clan Wolf. Far from it after the way I have been personally treated by them.

Edited by Noesis, 09 February 2015 - 11:34 AM.

[CyclonerM]

Noesis, on 09 February 2015 - 11:29 AM, said:

Good for you Hybrid, but it doesnt change the innacuracies or the way in which they have misstreated people with their history of insulting and dishonourable behaviour with fallacies being thrown around like confetti. Even GK now having a turn in avoiding to recognise their attacks on Kurita in terms of what this means to be dishonourable in an attempt to discredit others.

Let us not start again here too.. There is also a history of people who enjoy to make this shallow game a bit richer with some RP and diplomacy who have been a target for some trolls for a long time..

if MS really wants to fight for Clan Wolf, they may come and join our fights, but looking at past history, i hope they do not start attacking the Jade Falcons after we have obtained an IS attack corridor just "because they are bored". Oh well, no problem.. We can just wash our hands as everyone else has done so far

[Noesis]

CyclonerM, on 09 February 2015 - 12:06 PM, said:

Let us not start again here too.. There is also a history of people who enjoy to make this shallow game a bit richer with some RP and diplomacy who have been a target for some trolls for a long time..

if MS really wants to fight for Clan Wolf, they may come and join our fights, but looking at past history, i hope they do not start attacking the Jade Falcons after we have obtained an IS attack corridor just "because they are bored". Oh well, no problem.. We can just wash our hands as everyone else has done so far

I will comment how and where I like.

Clan Wolf is a toxic community and whilst some elements I'm sure would try to enrich the environment then they would allow for RP aspects to flourish. Well unless of course your lore is in opposition to their goals, like say the prejudice shown to the Dark Caste?

The Dark Born has made a very impactful statement in providing a very niche and unique experience from Clan Lore and have endeveoured in various diplomatic interests throughout the community in assiting those various elements and also providing other more unique resource to enrich the MWO experience.

Clan Wolf however in my experience however have taken their insults out of the arena of lore or even the game itself leveling lots of insults from multiple sources at the players themselves. This with a view to dicredit them since their RP is not aligned to their interests. So don't now state its ok to RP things when you haven't been able to accept things in context of the game and simply then labelled people who then are simply doing "RP posting" as trolls.

You are being severly hypocritical and false with your claim CyclonerM as a result.

[Deadfire]

hybrid black, on 09 February 2015 - 11:21 AM, said:

to be honest MercStar is now on good terms with many of the important wolf units, due to the lack of attacks and algorithm problems they now see why we attacked them so long ago to start all this. I can not speak for all in MercStar but many of us look forward to working with wolf, the improvement of many of there units and players has impressed us and we can not wait to drop with them and learn from each other.

This also goes far in showing that MS is far from a one trick pony, something 228th knows isn't true at all yet others need to be convinced of.

On topic, the action of disregarding Mercs due to them only of being only temporary and self-serving, is most likely based more on the lack of control of those that wish for it than any actions they have done. Mercs that wish to service the employed faction as a whole, quickly find them at odds with plans made without them by a few. We can be respectful, friendly, and make efforts to be informed. However as soon as we disagree with an action that to us goes away from what the faction as a whole does not benefit from. We are then labeled an issue, and have to be shown that our assumed wrongdoing hurts the faction somehow.

If anything to learn here is people in power will do anything to stay in control and will say anything to check the power of others. This is done with the falsehood of only they fully understand the issues of which there can only be black and white.

[CyclonerM]

I did not have any prejudice about the Dark Born, honestly, I do not see where you saw them.. I might have given a wrong impression again.

At first, i think i did not even show so much of the RP distaste for the Dark Caste. I even liked some of your suggestions for technical apps and tools you proposed in the Grand Council a while ago. It is just now with CW that something changed, probably as a result of you in particular (given i rarely see other DB members in the forums) associating with some elements of MS i had discussions with.

That said, again, i never said anything specifically against an unit RPing the Dark Caste, that is an interesting choice (i am still waiting for the other least represented Clans!) but you can see where our opinions and interests are conflicting about CW. That is just that. For me, these are hot issues i care about, and that makes me less diplomatic than i would normally like, you can see that.

This is what i can tell you, sometimes i still have the impression that my not quite-perfect-yet English sometimes conveys different messages than the intended ones..

Or maybe it is just CW , as i say, bringing out the best and the worst out of the players

[Noesis]

Deadfire, on 09 February 2015 - 12:39 PM, said:

This also goes far in showing that MS is far from a one trick pony, something 228th knows isn't true at all yet others need to be convinced of.

On topic, the action of disregarding Mercs due to them only of being only temporary and self-serving, is most likely based more on the lack of control of those that wish for it than any actions they have done. Mercs that wish to service the employed faction as a whole, quickly find them at odds with plans made without them by a few. We can be respectful, friendly, and make efforts to be informed. However as soon as we disagree with an action that to us goes away from what the faction as a whole does not benefit from. We are then labeled an issue, and have to be shown that our assumed wrongdoing hurts the faction somehow.

If anything to learn here is people in power will do anything to stay in control and will say anything to check the power of others. This is done with the falsehood of only they fully understand the issues of which there can only be black and white.

I do agree and would also like to add that it is not alien for at least those MERC units to also perhaps be courteous of factional aims even if ultimately they are not aligned with the MERC group.

This does occur and this courtesy is offered, I know this to be true for MS, CI and other groups who do offer more professional services to those who chose to listen or get around a table to discuss these things even if briefly.

And despite the fact of whether the aims are aligned I also know from my experience and time as a member of the Smoke Alliance that 228 at least had the courtesy to go around and discuss aims in an amicable manner with the members of that alliance. It did not change the aims of certain groups but we then at least had an understanding of the relationships and where then able to see who would be persuing what objectives. Ultimatley then as a result of that diplomatic efforts we could react and compensate to other alligned interests so that all parties could then at least understand the relationship.

That experience was however made more complicated with other affiliated members connected with 228 as part of ISMA simply turning up rapidly and doing their thing regardless that caused more problems.

So even this example then demonstrating the usefullness of diplomacy as opposed to being "black and white" with your affairs then helpful to a process as Deadfire so aptly puts. The shades of grey are relevant to warfare and things are not always as clearly defined with motivations. Especially moreso with neutral parties like MERCs whose aims do change based on the fact they treat warfare more as a "business".

[Prussian Havoc]

Deadfire, on 09 February 2015 - 12:39 PM, said:

This also goes far in showing that MS is far from a one trick pony, something 228th knows isn't true at all yet others need to be convinced of.

On topic, the action of disregarding Mercs due to them only of being only temporary and self-serving, is most likely based more on the lack of control of those that wish for it than any actions they have done. Mercs that wish to service the employed faction as a whole, quickly find them at odds with plans made without them by a few. We can be respectful, friendly, and make efforts to be informed. However as soon as we disagree with an action that to us goes away from what the faction as a whole does not benefit from. We are then labeled an issue, and have to be shown that our assumed wrongdoing hurts the faction somehow.

If anything to learn here is people in power will do anything to stay in control and will say anything to check the power of others. This is done with the falsehood of only they fully understand the issues of which there can only be black and white.

Please consider the following...

We are 2-months into a Beta that has the intent to structure a mode of gameplay that could last 6, 12, 24-months between map resets once it gets fleshed out. A prime example of this is the 4v4 "Preparatory Phase" matches that Russ spoke of in past Townhalls/Tweets. These 4v4 will be Recon/Sabotage missions run a day / 2 or 3 eight-hour cycles prior to the actual attack on a world. The purpose of these (if say 20 of 30 matches were successfully completed) being to perhaps take down a hidden and minimally denied generator - THUS ensuring a single gate at EACH sector being Inoperative when the actual Attacks of in (or maybe s single gate in Sectors 1 through 6.) Similarly a second 4v4 could be a Convoy Protection detail that if 20 of 30 iterations fail, then 25% of Sector 7 through 12 Turrets will be inoperative.

And while preparatory, main-battle and consolidation (clearing a 4v4 Hardpoint that has been bypassed, spoiling attack or delaying action to permit a larger force to retreat off-planet) will happen on consecutive cycles (for the most part) you could have on ONE CYCLE - the preparatory phase of one planet, coincide with the main-battle phase of another planet as well as the consolidation-phase of a third.

Thus CW Match will take on greater depth (AND POTENTIALLY MUCH LONGER DURATION) of gameplay with some matches serving as precursor (or sequels) to what we have today which is the Big-Four (Attack, Defend, Counterattack, and Hold)


Sorry to have taken so much time to get or my point.... But if CW does end up lasting for 6, 12, 24-months, then intra-Factional and extra-Factional politics will quickly become microcosms of TRUE POLITICS, with complex and greatly detailed interleaving of treaties, agreements, blood feuds and examples of. Loyal Opposition.

How in the world could a Mercenary Corp Unit (without completely abrogating the "Community" in Community Warfare) expect to come into a new Faction every week and have any legitimate basis to (as you are quoted above) :

"...as soon as we disagree with an action that to us goes away from what the faction as a whole does not benefit from..."

Can you imagine the negative impact to LOYALIST faction recruiting and retention is every week there is a new Mercenary Corp Unit unilaterally deciding for the Faction what is of "Most Benefit" and then proceed for 6-days to tear up treaties, proceed to invade in ALL directions under the pretense of "finding matches for frustrated gamers"

And then to SIMPLY pull up stakes NS drove on to the next victim next week.

(Okay that was an unfair characterization and I apologize.)

But I am sure you can see that Mercenary Gameplay BENEFITS from LOYALISTS having an enduring means to establish and attempt to maintain short and long term relationships where at least a modicum of viability and sustainability is possible.

I would content the the RICHER, DEEPER AND MORE IMMERSIVE THE GAMEPLAY OF LOYALIST, the "better" the stage is set for Mercenaries to go about the business of being Mercenaries.


The better we manage to help PGI restructure MWO CW, the less we are likely to end up with something we just don't recognize and will not game in.

Edited by Prussian Havoc, 10 February 2015 - 02:26 AM.

[CyclonerM]

Prussian Havoc, on 10 February 2015 - 01:39 AM, said:

I would content the the RICHER, DEEPER AND MORE IMMERSIVE THE GAMEPLAY OF LOYALIST, the "better" the stage is set for Mercenaries to go about the business of being Mercenaries.


The better we manage to help PGI restructure MWO CW, the less we are likely to end up with something we just don't recognize and will not game in.

Besides, i am not sure that being a merc at this point in CW developement would be even as interesting as the single player MW4 Mercs, where you actually had to manage your 'Mechs and pilots etc. besides just picking a faction and fight.