97 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Malleus011, on 14 February 2015 - 10:11 PM, said:

If PGI wants CW to be successful, then the OP is right on - they have to eliminate spawn camping, light rushes, and any other strategy which denies either team the ability to have fun - and in this game, the fun to be had is fighting your 'mech. Anything that keeps you from fighting your 'mech will discourage the player from spending time in the game, and therefore money ON the game. Being spawn camped prevents players from getting to play, which is ultimately bad for the game as a whole.

In effect, you have to make losing a match of CW fun on some level in order to populate the game. If casual players can't participate in CW and have fun, the game dies, and the hardcore players who are defending spawn camping will have no game to play.

This isn't to say the game should be easy mode, or that they're doing something wrong by spawn camping. They're playing the mission PGI designed, and playing it to win, as they should. The burden is on PGI to develop a game mode that allows the greatest number of players to have fun - whether they win or lose.

The problem is that for a whole lot of gamers today, the mere act of losing is already not fun. This also extends in real life. Why do you think participation trophies were created in the first place? A whole lot of people just can't handle losing.

Also, I don't want this game to be purely "Rock'em Sock'em Robots". Mattel already has that covered:




FYI, I play only solo and always have.

Edited by Mystere, 14 February 2015 - 10:43 PM.

[Mystere]

Wildstreak, on 14 February 2015 - 10:29 PM, said:

It is, easiest fix is a Surrender or Retreat option not just for CW, it would fix matches in the Usual Queue where someone runs away to shutdown or a small team finds itself vastly outnumbered. Been desired since before CW, good combat simulators have it.

My problem with this is that players who think the the game is already lost even before the match has started will just give up, screwing their team mates in the process. It will serve as reinforcement for already bad behavior.

As such, implementing a surrender option that carefully handles such abuse is probably easier said than done. But if PGI can come up with one, sure why not?

Edited by Mystere, 14 February 2015 - 10:52 PM.

[Excalabur50]

I have died many times whilst dropping and also from enemy dropships killing me next to an objective which is stupid drop areas SHOULD be in neutral territory where you have no way of choosing where or when to drop, you don't generally see an army drop a helicopter full of troops in the middle of tanks and armor they clear the area first then drop just as an analogy,
You should be able attacker or defender to drop in a safe zone then join the battle as this would make things fairer all around, and yes I get that there are hot zone drops in real life but this isn't real life and you don't have a pilot or gunner you can direct to clear an area before dropping

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

James Griffin, on 05 February 2015 - 04:45 PM, said:

It makes the game incredibly discouraging when you are being dropped partially shut down in to a group of people shooting at you, and your torso armour is almost gone before the display even comes up or you can return fire, you need to add safe drop zones or a different way of spawning defending 'mechs or something. And because the drop zones are pretty much on top of the objectives it isn't like the other team has a choice.

wasnt the dropship's weapons supposed to help with that or did they nerf that?

Id like to see us "drop in" in an overlord or one of those massive round Terrordrome looking dropships instead

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Overlord

I mean its almost big enough to take one team in one drop

Quote

• Bay 1: 36 'Mechs - 6 Doors
  
• Bay 2: 50 tons of Cargo - 1 Door
  
• Bay 3: 6 Fighters - 2 Doors

And then you have the armament

Quote

6x PPCs
2x AC/20
6x AC/5
12x Medium Lasers
3x LRM-20s
6x Large Lasers

or better yet

http://www.sarna.net..._%28DropShip%29

Quote

The Colossus is equipped with four Cargo Bays, designed to carry elements of a Regimental Combat Team and its equipment to the battlefield. The first bay is a dedicated vehicle bay, able to carry 72 heavy vehicles, and is serviced by two doors. The second bay carries 36 BattleMechs able to enter and exit through four doors. The third bay is dedicated to transporting infantry, normally twelve foot platoons, also with four access doors. The last bay is reserved for general supplies, with a capacity of 726 tons.

then the armament

Quote

5 x ER Large Lasers
16 x Medium Lasers
2 x Gauss Rifles
2 x Arrow IVs
4 x ER PPCs
4 x LRM 20s with Artemis IV

THAT might put a dent in campers

I remember the missions where those mothers were the attack target, that made it a ***** cause you had the guys dropping AND the dropship to contend with.

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 15 February 2015 - 02:26 AM.

[Soy]

Exactly Buddah, I fail to see how camping makes any sense at all considering a drop ship would take a huge dump on campers.

[Túatha Dé Danann]

It has been said several times: If your team plays so bad that the enemy defender tosses their own base with their own turrets and goes out into enemy dropship-fire to end it faster, then the team you are playing with must be VERY bad. And this is the only reason for spawn-camping: People wanting to end it faster. You could end it the slow way: Wait for them and kill them in a 48-2, but why should you if you have 4 mechs to spare and are tired of waiting?

Which leads to the next point: I was never been spawn-camped - EVER. But I did it to PUGs - just to end it quick. There is no reason to wait another 20 minutes if its already standing 18-1 or so.

Other points mentioned here, like Zerg-Rushes are on the other hand a much more valid point of critique. Clan forces have it easy to drop some Streak-SCRs and be done with it, but IS-teams have to use pilots that are able to hit a Light with a Gauss - and looking around at the coffee-ground of this playerbase, most can't.

[Joseph Mallan]

Jman5, on 14 February 2015 - 01:13 AM, said:

There should be a 5-10 second shield for players when they drop in to give them time to run to cover. Of course you can disable it early by firing your weapons. I don't care how over the match is, everyone deserves a chance to fight back when they respawn.

We do get "All systems nominal." in teh dropship. If we drop in Lances, and facing out like a real LZ Defense then Maybe they could actually fight back.

But Alistair & others said it right. If you are defeated to the point that the enemy can spawn camp, Your tactics have failed by the numbers. PGI should not help you if your team has collapsed that badly.

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 15 February 2015 - 02:23 AM, said:

wasnt the dropship's weapons supposed to help with that or did they nerf that?

Id like to see us "drop in" in an overlord or one of those massive round Terrordrome looking dropships instead

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Overlord

I mean its almost big enough to take one team in one drop





And then you have the armament




or better yet

http://www.sarna.net..._%28DropShip%29




then the armament




THAT might put a dent in campers

I remember the missions where those mothers were the attack target, that made it a ***** cause you had the guys dropping AND the dropship to contend with.

Don't forget those weapons are spread over the whole exterior of the ship, and only AFT section weapons can fire on ground forces... With exception of the Arty cannons, which IIRC can only fire when grounded.

[DelRico]

I personally suffered from this tactic, but I think its fair play. This is war, you need to take any ground you can to win. If you cant defend your landing zone, then you are failing at tactics.

BUT on the otherhand, I admit that those dropship monsters could have guns to defend their troops. Its in the books,no?

[Wildstreak]

Mystere, on 14 February 2015 - 10:49 PM, said:

My problem with this is that players who think the the game is already lost even before the match has started will just give up, screwing their team mates in the process. It will serve as reinforcement for already bad behavior.

As such, implementing a surrender option that carefully handles such abuse is probably easier said than done. But if PGI can come up with one, sure why not?

One such way is majority rules. Transformers Universe had it, max PvP was 4v4 so
with 4 players, you needed 3 Yes votes
with 3 players, you needed 2 Yes votes
with 2 players, you needed 2 Yes votes.
There was no 1v1 allowed.

That might be too much in 12 v 12 but another option would be to allow Commanders (Team & Lance) to vote on it also giving a purpose beyond orders some do not follow. This would also require transferring command if a Commander is killed.

[CocoaJin]

Why isn't there a fallback DZ? There needs to be alternate/stand-by DZs...it's crazy to think a drop should be allowed on enemy held locations.

Even if this means the defenders have to advance onto their eon defense objective, so be it. Do the Dropships have an weapons to help clear the DZ?

[Karl Marlow]

When you are teh attacker if you are being spawn camped the game is already over. If you are on defence beign spawned camped. It sucks but mainly because of where the insane Dropship captains drop you. Defenders need to be dropped further back. Better yet Let us choose from a set of waypoitns where we want to be dropped.

[627]

Just want to point out that there's not only spawn camping the attackers. The defending team can be camped, too.

And while you're all right in terms of "the team already lost" there should still be more or less safe zone to drop, not just right above the gun. Because if you have 2 mechs left in your deck, you should be able to bring them into the field without being shot out of the air.

I really like the bunker idea where defenders come into the game from some kind of indestructible doors, like 3 doors per lance, all tunneled. So you could leave with 4 at the same time and the enemy don't know where exactly you crawl out.

[Kilo 40]

Alistair Winter, on 14 February 2015 - 12:43 AM, said:

Cw has many flaws, this isn't one.

It's a symptom.

[Joseph Mallan]

Kilo 40, on 16 February 2015 - 12:12 AM, said:

It's a symptom.

Of bad players losing the initiative.

[Axeface]

Spawn points in CW should be protected, either by very good turrets that cant be destroyed or by areas that cant be entered by the attackers. The former is far better. Perhaps turrets with like 2 lrm 20's and the area has a permenant uav.

[Kilo 40]

Joseph Mallan, on 16 February 2015 - 02:34 AM, said:

Of bad players losing the initiative.

"well they're just bad" isn't really an argument. it's a crutch to defend a bad design.

Being in a pug on defense and losing to the first wave of a 12 man premade who then just camps at the LZ shooting mechs still in the dropship doesn't make everyone in the pug bad players. and it sure as hell doesn't make everyone in the premade good players either.

If it was a valid tactic then they never would have bothered putting weapons on the drop ships in the first place. they even buffed the weapons to discourage it. spawn camping is an exploit plain and simple.

[Túatha Dé Danann]

Kilo 40, on 16 February 2015 - 03:03 AM, said:

spawn camping is an exploit plain and simple.

As well as Ghost dropping.

[Mystere]

Kilo 40, on 16 February 2015 - 12:12 AM, said:

It's a symptom of being grossly outplayed.

FTFY.

Kilo 40, on 16 February 2015 - 03:03 AM, said:

"well they're just bad" isn't really an argument. it's a crutch to defend a bad design.

Being in a pug on defense and losing to the first wave of a 12 man premade who then just camps at the LZ shooting mechs still in the dropship doesn't make everyone in the pug bad players. and it sure as hell doesn't make everyone in the premade good players either.

If it was a valid tactic then they never would have bothered putting weapons on the drop ships in the first place. they even buffed the weapons to discourage it. spawn camping is an exploit plain and simple.

There is a difference between "discourage" and "forbid".

Edited by Mystere, 16 February 2015 - 11:01 AM.

[HARDKOR]

[Araevin Teshurr]

It would be simpler to up gun the drop ship to clear out everything around the drop. They can still snipe you to death, but the DS should be able to insta kill anything on the landing platform