97 replies to this topic

[Skarlock]

Axeface, on 16 February 2015 - 02:56 AM, said:

Spawn points in CW should be protected, either by very good turrets that cant be destroyed or by areas that cant be entered by the attackers. The former is far better. Perhaps turrets with like 2 lrm 20's and the area has a permenant uav.

There's a lot of problems with this solution. The first is lrm 20s have 1k range. Unless they move the spawn points so far back that if the defenders get overwhelmed once, they basically lose instantly due to having to travel 1k to get back to the generators, then the turrets will just constantly bombard the attackers and make defense ultra easy mode.

The second problem is that any mech small enough to hide behind cover that goes significantly above its head or underneath a platform will be immune to the lrms.

The third problem is that if the defending team sits in their spawn point behind their invincible turrets, they can lrm with impunity using indirect fire, unless again, they are so far out, that any wipe on the defenders end basically means an automatic loss because they are outside of 1k range...

The fourth and final problem I can think of is that if the attackers are the ones getting mauled, the defenders have no way to end the match. The attackers can just give up after 5 minutes and the defenders will have to sit there for the other 25 minutes twiddling their thumbs doing nothing, because they can't finish the fight.

All of these problems make your proposed solution unworkable IMO. CW isn't perfect and it can certainly be improved, but this is not something that would really fix much, yet it would introduce a slew of problems far worse than the current one, not to mention possibly require massive map changes and a host of re-balancing changes as well.

[Joseph Mallan]

Kilo 40, on 16 February 2015 - 03:03 AM, said:

"well they're just bad" isn't really an argument. it's a crutch to defend a bad design.

Being in a pug on defense and losing to the first wave of a 12 man premade who then just camps at the LZ shooting mechs still in the dropship doesn't make everyone in the pug bad players. and it sure as hell doesn't make everyone in the premade good players either.

If it was a valid tactic then they never would have bothered putting weapons on the drop ships in the first place. they even buffed the weapons to discourage it. spawn camping is an exploit plain and simple.

So being beaten by a better enemy is now to OP?

I am sorry but if your team is unable to fight cohesively enough to avoid being overrun. Then you were beaten by better tactics.

[Skarlock]

Relaed, on 16 February 2015 - 11:10 AM, said:

It would be simpler to up gun the drop ship to clear out everything around the drop. They can still snipe you to death, but the DS should be able to insta kill anything on the landing platform

That would make Omega nearly invincible due to the fact that the drop points are right next to it and people will be constantly re-spawning if they are getting beaten back that far to begin with.

[Dock Steward]

Joseph Mallan, on 16 February 2015 - 11:16 AM, said:

So being beaten by a better enemy is now to OP?

I am sorry but if your team is unable to fight cohesively enough to avoid being overrun. Then you were beaten by better tactics.

I agree, but, honestly, that mentality doesn't help all the PUG's getting creamed in CW. The children! Think of the Children!! Won't somebody please think of the children?!!!

[Joseph Mallan]

Dock Steward, on 16 February 2015 - 11:18 AM, said:

I agree, but, honestly, that mentality doesn't help all the PUG's getting creamed in CW. The children! Think of the Children!! Won't somebody please think of the children?!!!

I'm one of those children. Obviously my big boy pants fit better than some others.

[Kilo 40]

Joseph Mallan, on 16 February 2015 - 11:16 AM, said:

So being beaten by a better enemy is now to OP?

I never said anything of the sort.

I said spawn camping is an exploit and is not the way the game was intended to be played. stop defending exploits.

[Brody319]

Give Attacker's dropships 14 PPCs, if they wanna get close they can deal with the consequences.

The maps should be fixed up to give the defenders a drop zone a bit farther away from the objective because you can't really stop spawn camping since the spawn for defenders is in the same area as the objective.

[LordNothing]

easy solution to the problem. make the dropship a grounded union class.

[LoneCrow]

Any further dev to reduced spawn camping?? Being able to be spawn camped doesn't make any tactical sense!?!? Why would a dropship drop you right in the hot zone of an enemy ambush in the first place?? Most times I am already taking damage before the dropship's door are even up. This part of the game is frustrating, nonsensical, pointless, and a total waste of time and server resources!

I can appreciate it if the opposing team have dominated to secure the objective area, but the game should be pushing them to complete the objective ... not totally wasting time by waiting for the drop of next poor sod(s) with 0% chance of turning the game around even if they are superior players. If I wanted to shoot fish in a barrel (or be the fish), I'd go & play facebook games!

Please fix this issue ASAP!! Initial 20 sec dropzone shield, dynamic spawn points, or ability to target & fire weps while mid-air to drop zone ... anything but what it is now!!!!

[Nightmare1]

In every game I've ever played that involved spawn points, getting spawn camped meant that you had royally blown your chances at winning well ahead of getting camped.

[TWIAFU]

Kilo 40, on 16 February 2015 - 09:23 PM, said:

I never said anything of the sort.

I said spawn camping is an exploit and is not the way the game was intended to be played. stop defending exploits.

Well, thankfully the rest of us play by the rules PGI set out and not yours.

Exploiting / Griefing / Non-Participation
Our definition of Exploiting / Griefing includes:

Wilfully or repeatedly destroying Teammate or Lancemate 'Mechs.
Wilfully or repeatedly self-destructing one's 'Mech by Overheating or going Out-of-Bounds
Wilfully or repeatedly disconnecting during a match.
Wilfully or repeatedly spamming in-game chat.
Persistent non-participation in core game mechanics.
Wilfully or repeatedly taking advantage of an issue for personal gain.


To reiterate and clarify the Terms of Use on Prohibited Conduct: As an online game and an ongoing development, we do expect issues to be discovered by players. In cases where an issue can provide an unfair advantage, players are expected to refrain from manipulating these issues. Accidental triggering of an issue will rarely be of concern, though repeated abuse of any such issue reported to us will frequently be met with a warning or sanction. Intentionally joining a match for the sole purpose of disrupting gameplay through any means could be considered actionable.


Stop lying about what is an exploit, mmkay?

[Leggin Ho]

"Rant On"

1. Move the defenders spawn away from the Omega/gens, don't allow them to spawn and sit on top of the hills that were added to protect them which forces the attackers to kill them prior to Omega.

2. This is due to some folks camping in thier spawn and sniping out of it instead of moving out to push the attackers away from the objective. so remove the ability by making the tops of the ridges out of bounds like the hills between the gate on Boreal.

3. The Dropships are already the "MVP" of teams now, the defenders do NOT need more turrents or missles to protect folks that don't want to leave the spwan and to actaully push the attackers away.

4. Maybe add some SSRM turrents just inside of the spawn points in a protected area so that they are not hitting mechs outside that are trying to hit Omega/gens.

Main thing if you do not want to be killed in your spawn, then group up and push the attackers out of the main area if PGI can't move the defenters spawn away from the Omega. The best map set up so far has been Grim at least in the fact that the attackers can push the defeners back and kill the objectives.

"Rant over"

[Vlad Ward]

PGI, please do something to eliminate spawn camping. It's become a huge problem.

I just played a game last night where we were defending a counter-attack, and after beating on the attacking team 22-1 they decided to sit at their dropships and let the Imperator-Class Star Destroyers and their Turbolasers fend us off and waste 20 minutes of game time unnecessarily.

This conduct is extremely unsportsmanlike and, I believe, well within the bounds of a reportable offense (refusing to play the game).

PGI, please do something to prevent these bad teams from camping on their spawn. Spawn camping is exploitative and unsportsmanlike and dezgra and I want it gone.

[MechWarrior3671771]

"If you're in an organized group and you're getting steamrolled to the point of spawn camping, you guys have some issues to sort out."

I think the issues are on the other side. Red team is much better than Blue, and the match is already won. They can't give Blue the courtesy of a chance to group up and (still) all die, but while having fun doing it? What, is that 5 mins of time so valuable to you?

You guys need to grasp the concept of "occupying barren terrain" before your precious time gets filled with nothing but ghost drops.

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 21 August 2015 - 12:12 PM.

[Vlad Ward]

Fenrisulvyn, on 21 August 2015 - 12:11 PM, said:

"If you're in an organized group and you're getting steamrolled to the point of spawn camping, you guys have some issues to sort out."

I think the issues are on the other side. Red team is much better than Blue, and the match is already won. They can't give Blue the courtesy of a chance to group up and (still) all die, but while having fun doing it? What, is that 5 mins of time so valuable to you?

You guys need to grasp the concept of "occupying barren terrain" before your precious time gets filled with nothing but ghost drops.

You say this like players who are clearly losing by a tremendous amount actually appreciate being patronized and condescended to in this manner.

Hint: They don't. It's humiliating, and it's impossible for any winning team to make the losing side feel like they aren't being taunted by doing this.

Besides, the real problem is all the losing teams who decide to be sore about it and hide under their dropships while taunting strong defenders to come out to them. It's so many kinds of wrong.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 21 August 2015 - 01:26 PM.

[Armando]

The best thing PGI can do to fix the issue:

Ensure that every player who drops in community warfare is experienced enough to at least have 240 tons of mechs that they own. (Stop gimping teams by forcing 11 guys to carry someone in trial mechs).

Ensure that everyone on both sides clearly understands that MWO is a team based 12 vs 12 PvP experience, then provide tools and resources so that every player can EASILY find / join / be a part of a team....

...find / join: PGI needs to have a 'one stop shopping' for units / factions. One place where all Faction TS3 information is listed for the faction, and all the units who are faction loyalist...add "Lone Wolf" and "Mercenary" factions to the game.

...be a part of a team: PGI needs to create tutorials for "new" / "lone wolf" so they can learn the basics of how to play as part of a team. Lessons would include "How to move as a unit", "How to safely find the enemy team", "When / How to create a fire line", "When / How to push as a team", "When / How to flank", and most important "How to focus fire". These are the 'basics' of team play.

A group that is filled 100% with "New" and "Lone Wolf" pilots....and has completed the training described, will be prepared to not only 'put up a fight' against an organized 12 man team, but also able to 'punch em in the mouth' repeatedly unit the "New / Lone Wolf" is victorious.

I have seen "Lone Wolf" pilots who know how to play as part of a team....put 12 of THOSE guys together and good luck to 12 man 'unit' that is on the other team, there will be no spawn camping these of 'Lone Wolfs".

_______________________________________

Right now the ONLY way to learn these types of things is to join a unit....but there are many players who feel they don't have the time to commit to being part of a team. They should have a way to learn without feeling the NEED to join a unit.

As long as PGI insists that this game is only 12 vs 12 PvP with no 'solo' option, then PGI should IMHO ensure that EVERYONE has access to "How to be a part of a team" information (preferably with in game tutorials)

Edited by Armando, 21 August 2015 - 01:42 PM.

[Vlad Ward]

PGI will never openly endorse teamspeak servers. They tried that once, complete with employee TS presence, and the results were ... bad.

[Davers]

Vlad Ward, on 21 August 2015 - 01:25 PM, said:

You say this like players who are clearly losing by a tremendous amount actually appreciate being patronized and condescended to in this manner.

Hint: They don't. It's humiliating, and it's impossible for any winning team to make the losing side feel like they aren't being taunted by doing this.

Besides, the real problem is all the losing teams who decide to be sore about it and hide under their dropships while taunting strong defenders to come out to them. It's so many kinds of wrong.

But PGI made the dropships, and gave them weapons. You can't blame players for using the tools they were given.

[Vlad Ward]

Davers, on 21 August 2015 - 01:44 PM, said:

But PGI made the dropships, and gave them weapons. You can't blame players for using the tools they were given.

When an attacking team refuses to leave their drop zone and hides behind rocks to extend the amount of time they can stay alive while dropships do all the heavy lifting, it is the very definition of a reportable/bannable exploit (refusing to play the game).

It's also horrible sportsmanship.

[Davers]

Vlad Ward, on 21 August 2015 - 01:49 PM, said:

When an attacking team refuses to leave their drop zone and hides behind rocks to extend the amount of time they can stay alive while dropships do all the heavy lifting, it is the very definition of a reportable/bannable exploit (refusing to play the game).

It's also horrible sportsmanship.

Are you referring to a game where the attackers never left their deployment zone, or a game where they were beaten back to it?

Is your complaint that dropships are too strong? Do you have a problem if the opponent hides behind turrets as well?