760 replies to this topic

[Valar13]

And there's never been any effort to control them. The fact remains that their exclusion was due to requests from delegates who claimed accurately or otherwise that they had deliberately ignored alliances. It's already been said that they would be welcomed if they were willing to abide by the alliances establish by this conference. Otherwise, what's the point? It's like joining the "We Love Cookies" club but hating cookies.

[Dauphni]

Dear Mercstar,

There is a magical word in the English language that I would like to discuss with you today, and that word is ‘reputation’. You have one, we have one, everybody has one. Reputations have consequences. You've made yours and now you're going to have to deal with it.

You are so fond of saying that nobody can dictate how you play the game that you forget the converse of that: YOU cannot force US to play the game your way either. If your reputation makes people not want to trust you or even play with you, that's your problem, not ours. Whining about it will only make it worse.

tl;dr: You've made your bed, now sleep in it.

[CyclonerM]

Uite Dauphni, on 08 February 2015 - 04:13 AM, said:

Dear Mercstar,

There is a magical word in the English language that I would like to discuss with you today, and that word is ‘reputation’. You have one, we have one, everybody has one. Reputations have consequences. You've made yours and now you're going to have to deal with it.

You are so fond of saying that nobody can dictate how you play the game that you forget the converse of that: YOU cannot force US to play the game your way either. If your reputation makes people not want to trust you or even play with you, that's your problem, not ours. Whining about it will only make it worse.

tl;dr: You've made your bed, now sleep in it.

Honor to you. +1

[Ian Drsaurri]

sorry guys something came up and I was unable to participate but i'm glad it went well

[Molossian Dog]

So, after several pages where everyone talks about the Mega-Mercs and we had the Mega-Merc mudwrestling drama...

is there anything else we should know of?

[Budor]

I am Ghost Bear rank 8, how can i help with this?!

[Tranxy]

Budor, on 08 February 2015 - 06:09 AM, said:

I am Ghost Bear rank 8, how can i help with this?!

By putting up a good fight, see you on the battlefield clanner!

[Molossian Dog]

Budor, on 08 February 2015 - 06:09 AM, said:

I am Ghost Bear rank 8, how can i help with this?!

Override shutdown...Alpha Strike, Alpha Strike, Alpha Strike would be a good start, Gummybear.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 08 February 2015 - 06:11 AM.

[Klappspaten]

Budor, on 08 February 2015 - 06:09 AM, said:

I am Ghost Bear rank 8, how can i help with this?!

You can drop in defense of your planets or attack ours, so we don´t have to do so much ghost drops.

[Gorgo7]

Hmmm, Star League eh? Looks more like Free Worlds League given the colors in this discussion.
Merc's at the table in the *New* star League? More like a rabble of freebooters.
Something to watch for now but not to take seriously.

Shoot straight.

[Ilithi Dragon]

First and foremost, I must apologize. Several of my posts last night were unbecoming. Yesterday was a very long day, and this whole week has been long in general, and last night after the Conference had finished, I was tired and cranky, and further frustrated by other issues at the time. I allowed that to get the better of me, and I allowed it to color my words and behavior to be less diplomatic and temperate than I generally prefer to be. I apologize for that, and I apologize for any offense I caused because of that.


To clear the air on some things, MS would be welcome as members of the "Seventh House" mercenary faction of the Star League. Any mercenary unit is welcome. The stipulation there, however, is that the very act of joining the Star League is a commitment to the Inner Sphere. Mercs who want to go play with their Clan mechs every so often are not precluded from membership (with the caveat that they would not be allowed to vote on any actions in the Star League while they are operating under Clan banners), but membership in the Star League is inherently a declaration that your primary loyalty is to the Inner Sphere, not the Clans.

A mercenary unit that wants to play all sides equally is not primarily loyal to the Inner Sphere, and a mercenary unit that primarily plays on the Clan faction and occasionally tours the IS to play their IS mechs is not primarily loyal to the Inner Sphere.

To be clear, there is nothing wrong with either of these approaches - if you want to be the rogue merc that roves wherever the C-Bills or their whims take them, or if you want to be the Clanner that occasionally plays at being an IS merc, that's fine. There is plenty of room in the game for that. BUT, that will exclude you from membership in the Star League, because membership in the Star League requires that your primary loyalty be to the Inner Sphere. It is an organization of Inner Sphere units formed for the express purpose of coordinating efforts against the Clans and pushing them out of the Inner Sphere. If you're not on board with that objective, then it's not the group for you.

There is nothing wrong with that, you can play the game as you like, no hard feelings, and hey, we're going to need people to fight, after all! HOWEVER, that does mean that you can't expect to be allowed into the Star League if you don't want to play as committed to the Star League's stated objectives, and it is childish and silly to complain about not being let into a group whose objectives you don't share, or actively oppose.

That applies to ALL mercenary companies. The Star League is an alliance of units who are primarily loyal to the Inner Sphere, and anyone who is primarily loyal to the Inner Sphere is welcome. If you're not primarily loyal to the IS, then no hard feelings, but this isn't the group for you.



To address MS specifically. First, I again want to apologize for getting short with the MS players posting in this thread. Last night I was tired, cranky, and frustrated, and let that get the better of me.

Moving forward from that, though, MS was NOT excluded from the meeting. A number of delegates raised concerns to Roadbeer and myself (and from the sounds of it, more to Roadbeer than me), and Road pulled Tony and the other MS reps into a private conversation, laid out those concerns, and gave Tony and MS the choice of how to respond. Tony opted to leave as a diplomatic courtesy to avoid strife, drama, etc. That is a diplomatic courtesy that I fully respect and highly appreciate, because it lessened the political wrangling necessary to keep the conference moving forward. However, if Tony had chosen to stay and participate, I would have argued tooth and nail to let them stay, just as Roadbeer would have.

To be 100% honest, I was hoping to have the opportunity to bring MS into the fold and steal them away from their Clan base. I'd rather have MS fighting FOR the Star League, than fighting AGAINST it.

Unfortunately, things didn't play out that way, but to make it ABUNDANTLY CLEAR, MS was NOT ejected from the conference. They were presented with some diplomatic issues that were being raised, and voluntarily left. Most of those diplomatic concerns weren't really waranted, because we ended up not talking about anything that could be considered "sensitive" information, and the votes were so close to unanimous last night that MS' single vote wouldn't have made much difference one way or the other, but the fact still is that the MS representatives opted to leave of their own volition, not because they were forced to leave.


Furthermore, part of my hostility last night was because I was informed by multiple people that MS had declared that they would not abide by any cease fire or alliance agreement made by the Star League. I did not personally verify that myself, partly because I was juggling multiple things, and partly because I was tired and lacked the energy. For that, I apologize, as it seems like that was a major misunderstanding.

It is very much worth noting, however, that this was never cleared up by the MS members posting in this thread, and indeed the impression that MS was refusing to abide by any cease fires made by the Star League was perpetuated by MS members posting in this thread. When MS members did not refute the allegations that they were refusing to abide by any cease fire agreements made by the Star League, and indeed gave the impression of reinforcing those allegations themselves, that further solidified my understanding of MS as having refuted the Star League and everything it was attempting to accomplish.

Let us please take this opportunity, then to clarify. If MS were to join the Star League, no hard feelings, all drama and misunderstandings, etc. considered just water under the bridge, would MS be willing to abide by the cease-fire agreements, at least in part, or would they refuse to do so?

Keep in mind that one of the big issues we discussed last night was the issue of units who want to play CW but don't want to drop against the Clans. Loose policies were already put in place for how to deal with that, and addressing that further to allow players to participate and contribute in CW outside of the Clan border, without endangering the cease fires and alliances is going to be a major point on the agenda for the next meeting.

Also keep in mind that MS would not be direct members of the Star League, no one is. We are all members of a factional house, and the independent mercenary units would operate under the new "Seventh House" mercenary faction that is being organized. MS would be a member of this group, and would be represented in the Star League through them, just as the DRs or the Widows are represented in the Star League through the FWLM, or the Davion units are represented through the Davion high command, etc. MS's compliance with the cease fire, behavior, etc. would be subject to policing by the "Seventh House" mercenary faction, and their membership would largely be determined by that faction's community and leadership, not by the overarching Star League itself.

[Klappspaten]

Gorgo7, on 08 February 2015 - 06:14 AM, said:

Hmmm, Star League eh? Looks more like Free Worlds League given the colors in this discussion.
Merc's at the table in the *New* star League? More like a rabble of freebooters.
Something to watch for now but not to take seriously.

Shoot straight.

I can assure you that the Mariks have been very fair in the way they conducted this meeting.
All decisions have been put to a vote and the majority decided, in general the attending factions and units where largely agreeing with each other.

The FRR especially has to thank House Marik for bringing the second Star League to life and for making sure that everything went smooth and fair.

[Ilithi Dragon]

The FWLM found ourselves in the unique position of having a fair bit of political clout or influence with just about everyone. We saw an opportunity, and a dire need to unite the IS against the Clans, and we jumped on it. The FWLM has merely been the driving force to get this grand alliance off the ground, we have no desire nor intention to run the show, we're just getting it rolling.

[mp00]

I was going to post something huge and rambling just to make this thread longer but I think IIithi has hit the nail on the thread pretty well.

Couple points to clarify in my opinion
(this is just an observation and has little basis in known fact)

-MS- has afaik neither confirmed nor denied saying they will not abide or follow any direction from the Star League if they were members. In fact this unconfirmed report was heard in the meeting well AFTER -MS- representatives were out of the room. This unconfirmed statement could easily have been said in response to not being included in the meeting.

That -MS- sent representatives and in a way were pre-judged on past or potential actions is also apparent. That there inclusion would have been a disruption to the meeting.. I have to agree it would have been a disruption. Would it have been them disrupting the meeting or us in the meeting jumping all over whatever they said being the disruption? We wont know now will we? At the very least we should have heard them out and THEN we could vilify whatever they had to say instead of giving them trolling fodder to fling in advance.

I had a mental picture of 12 children at a table getting ready to have a huge cake and 1 child outside wanting a piece of cake. The child outside didn't know if he wanted to eat the cake or get the cake and have the option to fling back in the other children's faces. All he knows is he wanted the option. Now the kid outside is chopping down a tree trying to get it to land on the house.

[Strykewolf]

Bloody hell.

Folks, tis all well and good that the various factions came together and came to a general agreement on some things. It is, by no means, a set in stone 'you must play my way, or the highway'. Units/players that want to can do whatever they want. You should know that just by the nature of the game itself. MS can still play both sides against the middle if they want to; they can still choose to temp join whatever faction they want to and do what they want to. They just might find less, or no, support from faction units who have agreed with the ideals of the Star League.

[poopenshire]

@Russ, we know you are reading this thread. I think its about time you gave the great Houses to the players and not to PGI. Stop calling everyone Mercs. Let loyalty stand for itself. Let the Houses be. Let the players form their own commands. Then let the player accept or decline contracts for non-house members. Let the Mercs form a real MRBC. The best, most powerful thing you can do is allow for the Role Play experience that is so rich in Battletech. Don't fight it anymore.

Your player base has spoken, will you listen? Or will you watch CW population decline once again as players get fed up with antics and shenanigans of PUGs and rogues.

#FreeROFLHOG

[Grynos]

Ok now that I have read all these forum posts about what groups should do this or that and the flaming that ensued afterwards . Here are some of my thoughts on the subject..

PGI had the original option on giving Mercenaries their own faction.. They chose not to do this, for whatever reason , thus creating a situation where it is more beneficial to be a unit that travels to different factionsct/clans to get the rewards from each of those respective factions/clans. At this point in the Beta CW, units that limit themselves to one faction are limiting the rewards that unit's members are receiving, which is especially a tough pill to swallow for newer players. Now if PGI did have a Merc faction and only made the faction/clan match c-bill rewards different , then there would have been a lot less resentment towards Merc units in general.

Now, as far as reforming the Star League....
While it is a novel concept by a purely lore standpoint. In reality, from a strictly gameplay standpoint it is going to create situations that will force the less skilled players and/or units to further abandon CW all together. Like some others have posted before in this forum as well as others, loyalist units will get tired defending territories that have no direct influence with their faction/clan, which in turn will lead to what has been happening on the clan fronts for quite awhile now, PUG's and/or units where there is little concern of the outcome of the battle because it is not their factions/clans territory.

The fact that you even had to pull the people from MS into a seperate channel because of peer pressure or concerns or whatever you want to call it, is sad. What it tells me is that other units may be treated the same way in the future, and whom gets to decide what units are allowed to be there and which are not??? I mean 70 unit leaders isn't even a drop in the bucket of the units in CW.

Lastly there is no way to actually enforce any of these proposed agreements of the Star League, just like there is no way to enforce rogue units in factions/clans doing whatever they chose to do..

[Faith McCarron]

I'm not opposed to the idea, I'm just a little worried as to how it all is going to work out. How can things like "soft" ceasefires work? There is no mechanism to enforce them, and nothing to incentivize them.

[Cleaver404]

Thanks much to Ilithi for organizing this and having some solid success last night, sorry I couldn't stay for the whole thing, was falling asleep at the keys it was so late here (UTC+01:00).

As to the drama, MischiefSC said it best about in-game:

"Not telling you how to play - just saying that people can, and will, change and build opinions and big groups of players can and will censure each other over that."

And the same is true for posters here: if people are unnecessarily caustic (in making what wasn't, initially, a bad point) and then make statements for -MS- as a whole, if these don't reflect the feelings of -MS- as a group, those people won't continue being part of -MS- I'm sure. And if the outrage & dislike of the whole StarLeague concept is core to -MS-, then as Ilithi put it, do your thing, see ya on the battlefield.

I dropped w/ -MS- (they had 10 on at the time) on Fri. & I was indeed impressed w/ their skill & some folks in their TS were really friendly & welcoming to me & BigBaka filling out their roster. I'd love to hear what the group as a whole thinks. I don't love turret drops myself (I always try to encourage beating our time record), but see their value when needed.

As to why PGI has chosen to do this, think about it. I'm totally on board w/ the StarLeague idea & was glad to be able to support it some last night; but I'm also going to be watching very closely how we allow IS to fight IS because, let's be honest with each other, we like doing that too & seems like the rules PGI has put in & the ones they specifically keep out, are for making CW sustainable, not a pointless routing by one side or the other. The unaffiliated mercs are exactly what they clearly want to encourage to keep a sense of balance in the game so that we all can keep fighting each other in exciting drops. Right now, the Clans are rolling unchecked & this (StarLeague) is the response to that for the time being, as us IS & House loyalists try to do our part to keep the game exciting for everyone.

Edited by Cleaver404, 08 February 2015 - 08:17 AM.

[StUffz]

Let's look back what happened in the meantime.

Free Worlds League takes Cor Caroli from Lyran Commonwealth! [-MS-]
Free Worlds League takes Gacrux from Lyran Commonwealth! [TTK]
Free Worlds League takes Pollux from Lyran Commonwealth! [KONG]
Free Worlds League takes Alioth from Lyran Commonwealth! [-MS-]

I doubt that any Steiner will go into negotiation unless the fallen planets have been discussed.