173 replies to this topic

[Brody319]

The firestarter's hitboxes work because it moves really really fast, is rather small, and has JJs to jumble them around a bit.

The Enforcer has neither the speed, nor the size to make use of its hitboxes. also its JJs will be weaker.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Brody319, on 07 February 2015 - 01:21 PM, said:

The firestarter's hitboxes work because it moves really really fast, is rather small, and has JJs to jumble them around a bit.

The Enforcer has neither the speed, nor the size to make use of its hitboxes. also its JJs will be weaker.

Not really true. Hitboxes are important regardless of size or speed. The Awesome and Catapult can attest to that.

If this mech has good hitboxes, it will benefit greatly vs bad ones. I think the Firestarter has one of the better hitboxes to boot.

[Brody319]

MeiSooHaityu, on 07 February 2015 - 01:26 PM, said:

Not really true. Hitboxes are important regardless of size or speed. The Awesome and Catapult can attest to that.

If this mech has good hitboxes, it will benefit greatly vs bad ones. I think the Firestarter has one of the better hitboxes to boot.

I don't think so, I think they are broken especially when its running near the speed limit of the game. A slow firestarter or a still firestarter will die incredibly easy, so its not the hitboxes its the speed.

[STEF_]

Only the battlefield can tell us if enforcer's hitboxes are good or bad.

edit: the tankyness of a chassis is made by hitboxes + twist speed. Yes, speed too, but it's a secondary aspect.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 07 February 2015 - 01:50 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Cathy, on 07 February 2015 - 12:36 PM, said:

I think that's due to poor perspective by the artist in the TRO

Not really. ALl of them have shown long barrels, as have the miniatures since inception

Brody319, on 07 February 2015 - 01:21 PM, said:

The firestarter's hitboxes work because it moves really really fast, is rather small, and has JJs to jumble them around a bit.

The Enforcer has neither the speed, nor the size to make use of its hitboxes. also its JJs will be weaker.

not entirely true. The FS9, SHD and VTR all have very similar hitbox profiles, and it should be noted they are 3 of the tankiest chassis, in good hands (aka people who twist and don't stare), in the game. Large shoulders and good arm size, mixed with moderate to small ST geometry is always effective. The FS9s is just magnified by speed and HSR issues.

Brody319, on 07 February 2015 - 01:32 PM, said:

I don't think so, I think they are broken especially when its running near the speed limit of the game. A slow firestarter or a still firestarter will die incredibly easy, so its not the hitboxes its the speed.

That's because a Firestarter also has significantly less armor than a 50 ton mech, or higher. If what you were saying was so, then a well piloted Shadowhawk wouldn't be so cussedly hard to bring down. And trust me, as someone who used to run them a LOT before getting bored with how ezmode they were.... those things tank like a beast.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 07 February 2015 - 01:43 PM.

[Greenjulius]

New pictures grabbed from the NGNG weekend update: The Enforcer's arm looks better from less of an angle.

Plus, the other side of the Panther. I like it.







OMG... I just realized that the Panther reminds me of that cheesy first album from Pantera!

Edited by Greenjulius, 07 February 2015 - 01:52 PM.

[SweetJackal]

Stefka Kerensky, on 07 February 2015 - 12:15 AM, said:

Looking at that pic.... I fell that the Enforce will make obsolete the centurion and the Hunch: slim, it can jump, xl friendly. The head is a little too firestarter-ish.

I doubt it will knock down the Cent or Hunch at all. The Cent mounts firepower and the option of higher speeds as it is surprisingly durable even with an XL, it's just that it's weapon arm is quite vulnerable. The Hunch has more durability for it's weapons and still provides a shield side to use at the cost of lower speeds to maintain it's big gun advantage, the Hunch cannot shield itself with arms like the Cent can.

From what it looks like the Enforcer will not be able to put as much damage down range as the Cent or Hunch will but if it is XL friendly then it will have the other two points of the Dominance Triangle, Mobility and Durability. Higher potential speeds with jump jets while spread out weapons will help prevent it from being crippled by losing an exterior component. Downside to that of course is not having a shield side like the Cent or Hunch.

The Enforcer will be needing to use speed and positioning to bring it's more limited firepower (compared to the Cent and Hunch) to bear.

I look forward to seeing how it plays.

Edit: I do feel that the Cent and Hunch will maintain the firepower advantage by comparing the current LBX quirks to the Cent. Though the Enforcer will have access to bigger energy weapons and more of them it will still be trading tonnage to try to match the raw efficiency boosts that the higher weapon quirks on the Cent give it. Lacking the ability to mount an AC/20 on any of it's models also keeps it out of reach from matching the Hunch in that front. Good trade for the mobility and JJ though.

Edited by SuckyJack, 07 February 2015 - 02:11 PM.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Why's everything always red white and black?

PC Gamer code, white, red, black,
Pheonix: white red black,
Urban mech concept: white red black
Now Resistance... white... red... black..

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 07 February 2015 - 03:58 PM.

[Greenjulius]

MoonUnitBeta, on 07 February 2015 - 01:52 PM, said:

Why's everything always red white and black?

PC Gamer code, white, red, black,
Pheonix, white red black,
Now Resistance... white... red... black..

My first change will be to change it to my usual Black/Green, but I may play around with it and use Blue or Yellow.

[Wintersdark]

Stefka Kerensky, on 07 February 2015 - 06:02 AM, said:

But why does everybody want bigger arms, when it would be easier to hit them?

Because it's ALWAYS better to be hit in the arm than the side torso. Losing an arm can cost you a weapon, losing a side torso can kill you (XL), and costs you the arm as well. Once the ST is lost, hits to that side transfer damage to your center torso as well (a fraction, of course), so they continue to bring you closer to death.

Even if your weapons are ALL arm mounted, you still want to catch shots on your arms. Further, enemies targetting your arms are rarely making a good choice excepting some notable edge cases. You see this all the time in clan discussions: "Just tear off an arm! Their firepower is all in their arms!" as if that's a good idea.

If you've done enough damage to tear off an arm, you're just a couple points shy (~10 on a 50t mech?) of having done enough damage to tear off the side torso AND the arm.

[Wintersdark]

Brody319, on 07 February 2015 - 01:21 PM, said:

The firestarter's hitboxes work because it moves really really fast, is rather small, and has JJs to jumble them around a bit.

The Enforcer has neither the speed, nor the size to make use of its hitboxes. also its JJs will be weaker.

The Enforcer has narrow geometry.

Narrow geometry begets good hitboxes, and makes it very easy for minor twisting to spread shots across the torso and arms. This is why the Shadowhawk is as tanky as it is, and even the Victor. You don't need speed to make good use of a great profile and tank damage well.

Obviously, going slower means you'll take some more hits, but the Enforcer has a great profile for it. Should work out really well in practice.

[Mavairo]

Only thing I don't like about the Enforcer and Panther.

Once again PGI implements Weeny Guns™

[Bishop Steiner]

Mavairo, on 07 February 2015 - 04:38 PM, said:

Only thing I don't like about the Enforcer and Panther.

Once again PGI implements Weeny Guns™

it's a real epidemic and curse, and I suppose is being done at the behest of the Denizens of Mount Tryhard, who are looking for any possible way to make a mech more "viable", because I can't see how anyone who became a fan of Btech and Mecha in the classic era, of Big Stompy robots packing big nasty guns, would find this remotely appealing.

I do wish all the people wanting to visually neuter the IP in the name of Esports, would spend their time doing so to a les storied franchise. Some of us are fine with accepting warts for flavor.

[MauttyKoray]

Xythius, on 06 February 2015 - 07:29 PM, said:

The Panther looks really good. I really like how you can see the fangs/jaw on the head, then gave it a real sleek look. Me likey.

The Enforcer, unfortunately, looks rather... pedestrian. It's just kinda boring. It looked like they tried to give it a cool chest plate, but it kinda fell apart everywhere else.

Not only that, but given the quirks - not part of this thread, I know, but it does contribute to my initial feelings of the 'mech - it's basically just a re-skinned version of the CN9-D. Which looks -way- better.

To be fair, the Enforcer is basically the Ballistics brother of the Vindicator. They are also both law enforcement mechs, so their pedestrian looks make a lot of sense.

[TercieI]

I am pleasantly surprised by both.

And flat delighted with the camo. Just so cool.

[Sjorpha]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 February 2015 - 06:16 PM, said:

it's a real epidemic and curse, and I suppose is being done at the behest of the Denizens of Mount Tryhard, who are looking for any possible way to make a mech more "viable", because I can't see how anyone who became a fan of Btech and Mecha in the classic era, of Big Stompy robots packing big nasty guns, would find this remotely appealing.

I do wish all the people wanting to visually neuter the IP in the name of Esports, would spend their time doing so to a les storied franchise. Some of us are fine with accepting warts for flavor.

I have never heard any competitive player, ever, make that argument. In fact I don't think I have ever heard any of them argue for small weapons at all. Seems much more likely that this is simply a (poor) design approach by PGI rather than some weird conspiracy. It is also unlikely because small weapons, especially in the arms, isn't even a competitive advantage in the first place.

Sounds like you got your tinfoil hat on.

[Wintersdark]

Terciel1976, on 07 February 2015 - 08:41 PM, said:

I am pleasantly surprised by both.

And flat delighted with the camo. Just so cool.

Yes. Its the FIRST package camp that isn't, IMHO, terrible. They look badass.

[MauttyKoray]

Wintersdark, on 08 February 2015 - 12:17 AM, said:

Yes. Its the FIRST package camp that isn't, IMHO, terrible. They look badass.

The Clan Polygon camo isn't horrible, not amazing, but its decent for a 'freebie'.

[Machinae Mortis]

Greenjulius, on 07 February 2015 - 01:50 PM, said:

OMG... I just realized that the Panther reminds me of that cheesy first album from Pantera!

Haha. I was listening to that album on the way home from work tonight. I had totally forgotten that it was on my iPod. I even stopped to think that I was probably the only person in the entire world listening to it at that time. Pretty obscure; even for fans of the band.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Wintersdark, on 07 February 2015 - 03:04 PM, said:

If you've done enough damage to tear off an arm, you're just a couple points shy (~10 on a 50t mech?) of having done enough damage to tear off the side torso AND the arm.

This is the reason I prefer the unrealistic nature of ST destruction in MW4. Tear off the side torso and that arm is still there, gives more incentive to shoot arms first on mechs like the Catapult or Gargoyle.