173 replies to this topic

[Mavairo]

Kevjack, on 08 February 2015 - 03:15 PM, said:

Do people really want larger arm cannons, bigger hitboxes be damned?

Yes.
I'm not even that great of a shot and and shooting the arm off a timber, or a dragon....the difficulty has nothing to do with which one has a Weeny Gun™, but the armor values there.

Plus....Weeny Gun™ makes it all the easier to blow out ST, or CTs vs having a bigger cannon arm.

When I shoot someone's arm, I'm aiming high and just to the inside of the shoulders. If I miss the arm...I hit either the ST...CT....or on some mechs maybe even the head.

If I'm trying to shoot someone's ST or CT, particularly if the target is shielding with their arms, bigger cannon arms shield those better because they're bigger, front and center.

Blowing out the CT from an Atlas when it uses it's arms to shield is a hell load more difficult than it is to blow out a Direwolf, Warhawk, Highlander, or Awesomes....because the AS7 has great big shield arms.

And yet...blowing off their arms, is no more difficult than the other. You'd have to be playing at obsenely low fps, or with obsenely low res for arm size to make much difference in disarming someone.

Edited by Mavairo, 08 February 2015 - 04:35 PM.

[MoonUnitBeta]

InRev, on 08 February 2015 - 08:46 AM, said:

Pather looks right on from the screenshot. No complaints there. Not even with Teeny-Gun Syndrome.

The Enforcer however . . . man, that poor thing is all kinds of ****** up. They really screwed the pooch when modelling it. The concept art looked intimidating with that bigass gun, those broad shoulders and that big chest. What we got however . . . it looks like a bobblehead with a tiny ballistic but a ridiculously big laser arm.

Seriously, just wtf happened?

Enforcer when seen from another angle

Spoiler

I blame the feet and leg. They're a lot wider. Even the toes are wider, the shin, etc. I think that's the only thing that wrong with it really. I blame the better lighting on the concept for that intimidating look. the cockpit didn't need those huge thick black support bars though. The concept looked more tactile and refined.

[Bishop Steiner]

Greenjulius, on 08 February 2015 - 03:38 PM, said:

I did some testing with the brilliant Mechwarrior Online Heat Simulator and found that with the quirks, Elite skills and a XL250 without additional DHS, you can fire the 2xERPPC combo FOUR times consecutively without overheat. That's without cooldown factored however. Let me give that a try. Edit: With the 25% cooldown, you will overheat with the 4th salvo. So just watch your heat and you should do fine.

On a heat neutral map, I presume? So on Caustic, Therma and Trampoline? Worthless?

[Brody319]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 February 2015 - 05:41 PM, said:

On a heat neutral map, I presume? So on Caustic, Therma and Trampoline? Worthless?

On forest colony I'm only getting about 2 alphas without overheat. 3rd will put you over 100.

[InRev]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 February 2015 - 05:41 PM, said:

On a heat neutral map, I presume? So on Caustic, Therma and Trampoline? Worthless?

Yep, they definitely undercooked the quirks on the Panther and Enforcer.

[Bloodweaver]

Bloodweaver, on 07 February 2015 - 08:33 AM, said:

Panther looks pretty decent. Enforcer is... plain, and ugly. And not an A-10 Warthog "ugly," either. Just boring and plain and not at all in line with the concept art. Which, I should point out, was the concept art I loved the most, even more than the Zeus. I already bought the Panther pack and was going to at least upgrade to the Enforcer pack, possibly the Zeus pack, just because of how cool I thought the Enforcer looked(and because I like its hardpoints). But if that screenshot is an accurate representation of what it'll look like in-game... :/

I'd say the issues making it looks so ugly are, in order of how strong they affect the model: head, shoulders, arms, and legs. The head and shoulders each diverge pretty significantly from the concept art. I wouldn't care so much if the arms and legs stayed the same, but the head and shoulders are honestly pretty dopey-looking. To start off, the head is just plain too big. It needs to be smaller and set further back on the torso, which will also allow the chest to jut out a bit more. And its "mandibles" that straddle the lowest cockpit window should be significantly reduced.

The shoulders are in two sections, each with their own problems. The jointed section that the arms attach to, is too bulky, and more to the point, needs to be set higher and further back on the torso. The concept art shows it pretty much at cockpit-level. The second section of the shoulders is that ring/bulwark/plate/spacer/whatever that sits between the shoulder proper and the CT. This is too bulky, and also shouldn't be so strongly attached to the head.

Fix those three sections (head, shoulder joint, shoulder spacer) and the 'mech will already be pretty close to ideal. To make it actually ideal, a couple more things would need to be done, but they're not nearly as vital. These are: the right arm needs to be more threatening(bigger). Left arm probably needs to be smaller. Feet should be smaller too, but also note that the center portion of the legs, particularly from the knee down, the part between the 'mechs calves, is too thick. And the central hip section between the legs is too big as well, almost looks like a diaper.

If this is really an accurate representation of how the Enforcer's going to look, I'm not sure if I'll still bother upgrading my Resistance pack anymore. It's just a dumpier Firestarter or a less unique Victor, neither of which are 'mechs I care for at all.

I'd still like to upgrade to the Zeus pack, but I really don't know anymore. The Enforcer was the main reason for me putting anything into the pack at all, and yes, I was perfectly willing to spend $80 for it (I loved the hardpoints and the concept art) along with all the faction and bonus content. Now? I may actually seek a refund. It really is ugly. Still deciding.

Edited by Bloodweaver, 08 February 2015 - 07:11 PM.

[uebersoldat]

Not sure why people are doggin' on the Enforcer. Looks fine to me!

[Brody319]

uebersoldat, on 08 February 2015 - 07:18 PM, said:

Not sure why people are doggin' on the Enforcer. Looks fine to me!

looks wrong to me. If you look at the lore, its got this wide visor for a cockpit. this one just has like a victor or firestarter face.

[Corbon Zackery]

I'm very excited these mech were picked by the community. I feel that all 4 of them will have a impact on the game.

If we look at the Panther, It will be stripped down xl eng. added endo steel, JJ ability to stick that arm around the corner and pound a guy with ER PPC for 10 or 2 er large lasers for 16, If someone does come to find you. You have Streak or SRM to pound a guy with CT fired for accuracy.



Enforcer is a ballistic laser boat this allows you pack in a heavy ac on the arm while filling up other hard points with 1 to 5 ton lasers. Normally you have AC 20/SRM ballistic.missile combos with this mech you can pack a AC 10 and M.lasers. Gives you a lot more flexibility.



The other thing is it gives more diversity on the field of battle.

Edited by Corbon Zackery, 08 February 2015 - 07:27 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

InRev, on 08 February 2015 - 06:56 PM, said:

Yep, they definitely undercooked the quirks on the Panther and Enforcer.

Well, I had no plan to run 2 anyhow. Probably 2 SRM4 and an ER PPC. The velocity boost is very nice, at least. 1470 MPS aint bad

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 08 February 2015 - 07:29 PM.

[Fate 6]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 February 2015 - 07:28 PM, said:

Well, I had no plan to run 2 anyhow. Probably 2 SRM4 and an ER PPC. The velocity boost is very nice, at least. 1470 MPS aint bad

I think both builds will work quite well. I'm so hyped about the Panther I've been running an Ice Ferret with an ERPPC and 2SRM4s. The Panther will be slightly slower and slightly less armored, but the firepower certainly isn't lacking, and the Panther will do that build much more effectively as well. I'm excited.

[Grey Ghost]

Brody319, on 08 February 2015 - 07:23 PM, said:

looks wrong to me. If you look at the lore, its got this wide visor for a cockpit. this one just has like a victor or firestarter face.

I'd be surprised if they changed it. Just look at how anti-lore the Orion cockpit is... irks me something fierce.

[Insects]

Kevjack, on 08 February 2015 - 03:15 PM, said:

Do people really want larger arm cannons, bigger hitboxes be damned?

I think they should for everything.
It applies a penalty for loading a huge weapon on a small mech or in a slot its not really intended for.
Get rid of the physics defying weapon sizes. Yes you can load an AC10 into your Spider, but its going to poke a big cannon out of your chest and enlarge the hitbox.

Its too much effort and they never will implement it though.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Brody319, on 08 February 2015 - 07:23 PM, said:

looks wrong to me. If you look at the lore, its got this wide visor for a cockpit. this one just has like a victor or firestarter face.

I'm glad PGI takes liberties though. If they didn't, we wouldn't have our beautiful Catapult (torso and legs anyway) or the cool Centurion. Both those mechs benefitted from artistic redesign. Even the Timber Wolf is an improvement. The torso no longer looks like a WWII bomber cockpit protruding from a large brick.

I suppose artistic license means you take the good with the bad. I also am not crazy about their "vision" when it comes to the Enforcer cockpit, but then they turn around and make that sweet looking Panther.

Just got to take the good with the bad I suppose.

[Axeface]

MeiSooHaityu, on 09 February 2015 - 04:06 AM, said:

Just got to take the good with the bad I suppose.

A nice sentiment, but they could just shrink the offending features. It isn't much work and you will be hard pressed to find anyone that would complain about it (a majority wouldnt even notice). The concept cockpit looks better, plain and simple - these small details (like the king crab head also) need more attention to detail, repeatedly the models don't fit the concept art.

Look at the gargoyle. The concept looks badass, the in game model looks horrid. The ice ferret - I thought about buying one of them - then I saw the model.

Edited by Axeface, 09 February 2015 - 04:56 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Better attention when it is being developed I suppose.

Once you see an in game preview though, it isn't being altered after that. The Enforcer we see is the Enforcer we are getting. I think changing the model is more involved than PGI wants to take on when it is a relatively minor thing.

I do wish the head looked more like the concept, but it is what it is.

I still feel like the Gargoyle's head was the worst offender.

[Axeface]

MeiSooHaityu, on 09 February 2015 - 05:04 AM, said:

The Enforcer we see is the Enforcer we are getting. I think changing the model is more involved than PGI wants to take on when it is a relatively minor thing.

Well if that turns out to be true then I regret my purchase of one. I dabble in 3d modelling and have some models in a published game, so I know at least a bit about modelling. Shrinking the features is a very small job - what i'm not sure about is how they do the hitboxes for components. I'de assume however that it's just as simple.

I'de like to add though that I'm super happy with the panther, looks nigh-perfect imho. Just cant wait to hear how it sounds.

Edited by Axeface, 09 February 2015 - 05:20 AM.

[NextGame]

Was hoping for the forearms to be a little bit more dramatic on the Enforcer, at the moment, as others have pointed out, its just a firestarter in disguise.

But I don't think it's wildly out, you are talking 2-5% length/girth on the forearms so that they feel a bit punchier/meatier, and touch up the cockpit to make it a little less fat firestarter. Its mostly the arms:legs ratio that's throwing things off visually as it has been given human arm:leg ratios when in the concept art, its not quite (and looks like a more dangerous machine as a result)

All in all, it's probably just about within acceptable parameters.

Edited by NextGame, 09 February 2015 - 05:31 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Brody319, on 08 February 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:

I like the lore cockpit better

with that black part at the head it looks like an open mouthed stage 9

[Axeface]

Can a pre-order be cancelled? I would rather ditch the enforcer now I have seen the model and put that money into an urbie package.