116 replies to this topic

[Pahrias]

Revener, on 13 February 2015 - 08:27 AM, said:

Ehh....! what WoT have you played? It is much easier to earn money in MWO. a 300000 gun here is about 3 games.
In wot its anywhere between 30-6 games, the income there is much more variable depending on what tank and tier you play and how a ******** team you got. But sure if you play lets say the Kv-5 or the Type 59 and you stay alive and do a decent amount of damage you would earn 300000 in about 6 games AFTER you have paid for repairs and ammo. And you may even have games where you loose money, wich you don't get here.

just the last part i dont agree with. yes theres no repair/reload issues, but as some one earlier mentioned, if u use uavs or artys or cool shots and dont put in a stellar performance that match is gonna cost you.

[topgun505]

And all the figures being thrown around. All of them are assuming you don't use ANY consumables. Suddenly that 80-100k average goes down to 0-80k (depending how many you use).

The cadet bonuses are a nice wallet padding to start with... but generally it will only net you enough for ONE new mech. But you need 3 (plus the cost of the hidden dhs tax, etc). So the player grinds out his 25 games, gets one good mech, then has to grind 80-some hours doing 300+ games just to get the other two mechs so he can START unlocking the higher skills in it.

Sorry but yeah, that's asking a bit much of a new player. Almost certainly the new player will bail before he gets to the end of that process.

[Johnny Z]

I started trying to master Cicadas yesterday. I have 3 at the moment and should be done by tonight. Not sure what else to say.

Yes I had to sell some gear, but none of my mechs.

I had about 7 mill when I started so not a huge amnount.

Havnt used any MC.

I get another 1.6 mill next rank in House davion and a bit from doing matches. Will be neck high in creds in another 20 matches with nothing to spend it on.

Edited by Johnny Z, 13 February 2015 - 09:24 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mister D, on 07 February 2015 - 07:05 AM, said:

Well when only a few guys are winning, everyone else is losing.

Not everyone is in this for "competition", they do it for fun.

Losing isn't fun, and gets old really fast especially when you get the shaft hardcore for it, and when it isn't fun anymore even when you lose, people quit.

Then you need to get better. I am losing 53% of my games, and depending on the Elo I can lose and earn 160K. I still average around 90K on a loss now.

[Pahrias]

Bill Lumbar, on 07 February 2015 - 08:56 AM, said:

As some of you know, I have expressed my concerns and issues with the earnings till my face has turned blue. I signed up on a account on the twitch site, which is something I have never been willing to do just so I could partake and ask questions to Russ in the town hall regarding "earnings/Rewards" if one can really call them rewards. Two town hall meetings ago, my question got asked to Russ, or at least a "question" got asked with my name attached to it. The wording had been completely changed... and it was stated I wanted to know what PGI planned to do about earnings and keeping "new players" interested in the game in the future. My question was regarding the low earnings we have per match and the "grind" we have had for so long that only lets us advance at a snails pace. It was Geared at ALL players, not just the "new player experience".

Here is the thing for me, after stepping back and looking at this game for the past year. I have several gaming rigs built, 3 of which should have no issues playing this game with acceptable FPS, and smoothness.

My main gaming rig right now specs are:

FX-8350 @ 5ghz and water cooled with a $300+ dollar loop I put together 4 years ago.
Gigabyte 990fxa-UD3 Rev. 2
16 gb of DDR3 1866
Samsung 500 gb EVO SSD
ATI XFX DD 7970 3gb card
Windows 7 64 bit OS and tried/Tested with several Windows 10 TP builds, including the most recent one.

Until the patch the other day to address FPS issues many of us, if not all of us have faced the last 2+years, even with bad ass $2000-4000 Intel rigs with High end Nvidia and Amd cards. Amd users have seen a even lower FPS numbers then those running mid-high end AMD systems. While my rig has allowed me to play MWO fairly smooth most of the time, with decent FPS, It is out matched by Intel systems when putting out raw numbers for FPS. There have been several that I have seen post in the hardware section, that have had really nice rigs, $2500+, two 7970's in crossfire, running a Intel I7 that felt they had to drop another $700+ into their system and upgrade to Nvidia's biggest card just so they don't drop below 60 FPS, and still ended up doing so.

This is a JOKE IMO..... even if this was the best BT game we have ever seen produced in our life time, The fact that this game is not optimized, or is just now being optimized for ALL systems after 2+ years is concerning, at least to me it is. This is just ONE issue among several IMO that is wrong with this game. I would like to give props to PGI however for attempting to now fix the FPS issues that we all have endured, and please Russ... continue to make improvements on this issue if it can be done, it is needed for this game to advance, and for a bigger, happier player base that grows instead of shrinks.

Speaking of a shrinking player base.... PGI can continue to hope the "whales" will keep this game afloat, and be profitable to keep developing it. However, IMO, this mindset and model will only go so far, and build a very limited player base that is mostly consisted of die hard BT fans. IMO, this will only take this game so far, and keep it in development only so long before the "whales" lose interest in spending $500+ on a game if PGI doesn't really start to add depth and real content to this game. Don't get me wrong, I love more mechs coming to us all too, but at some point it really doesn't matter how many mechs are out in this game if many of the players have to spend $200-6000 grand to obtain them, Or Grind out 40+ hours a week, for a year straight, no breaks, 7 days a week, even with PT and a hero mech to obtain even half the 200+ mechs that are out right now, with more coming ever month. IMO, this is Insane!

I could be wrong here, but PGI would be much better off if they took a different approach to this model we have now. A more realistic one. Opinions will vary on what that would be, but IMO, what we have right now is not it. Everything in this game, besides Mech bays are priced extremely high for what you really get. In reality you are leasing a digital toy and at anytime it could go poof, just like that. When one factors in the cost of everything in this game, the cost for a gaming rig that can even play it at "decent" Fps, and the time needed to spend to advance at a snails pace because of low earnings/rewards... It starts to look like one will need to work a full time job, plus make this game a full time job, even after spending hundreds of dollars on it. One has to ask Russ, Is this model really sustainable and building up a player base that loves this game, or is it barely holding on to the players it has, and making more bitter players then happy players that are willing to continue to support this game with their hard earned cash?

Many of us have figured up our life time earnings/rewards, we have produced the numbers of hours, number of games played, money spent vs. what they have afforded us in this game. Some are fine with the numbers, some are not. I am one of the ones that are not fine with the numbers, and I find them to be a factor in killing the fun in this game. Lack of real content(other then shiny new mechs for sale) and depth in the game also is a big factor for me. I seriously hope at some point soon PGI takes another look at just where they want this game to go, what they are willing to put into it, and the cost they expect us to pay to further the advancement of this game, and the rate we ALL advance in this game.

Many say, "Oh well, its a F2P game, get over it." However, just to play this game at decent FPS, many have to invest $1000-4000 in a gaming rig right out the gate, or they have invested that much into a system. Until the last patch, many if not all players had issues with performance on this gaming rigs in this game, and to me that is not acceptable. Then you take into consideration the dollar amounts that some have spent to purchase "Packs, PT, MC, etc, etc," to help support the game...and add them all up and it starts to become a pretty large amount of cash, and just to "lease" some digital toys that could go poof at anytime.

I for one have spent $80 bucks to date on this game, I wanted to pick up the IS pack for $80 and even considered picking up the Urbie pack for $40. Key reason I haven't pulled the trigger and picked up both or spent more money on this game at this time, IMO, earning and rewards are painfully low, prices for everything are way to high, real depth and content in this game is lacking. PGI doesn't really seem to care about the prices or what I feel is very low earnings/rewards for ALL players, and to date, even though they are "working on it" there is not much depth or content to this game other than mechs being sold.

Bottom line, increase earnings in match by 30-50% for ALL or bust! If and when this game goes Steam, I could be wrong, but I really believe PGI has a wake up call coming regarding their current model. If they are looking to replace the "whales" they have now by going Steam, it might work for a little while, but at some point, the reviews from the masses will bite them in the ass. I truly believe the player base will not grow if they keep the current model and earnings.










Good luck reaching that number..... its a long way to the top if you want to rock and roll!

This man is wise! PGI should listen to him! ive also wondered why what is essentially a robot deathmatch game has such high system requirements. its off putting to the more casual gamers like me, who consistantly get 25-30 fps, on most maps, sometimes a lot lower on others (mining collective most notably) the lack of more content, such as a campaign mode or side missions, or PvE are also off putting.

i know its a differant genre but look at the success of startrek online, theres so much to do in that game it boggles the mind in comparrision. and its system requirements are MUCH lower/ better optimised. in its current form this game feels like an elitists WoT. i think the main reason its still alive is because PGI currantly have monopoly on the big robot genre. if there was a differant BT game, like earthsiege for example, with more content/gamemodes, better optimisation, i know id most likley be playing that instead. and if it wasnt an F2P game even better, id actually buy it.

[Johnny Z]

Pahrias, on 13 February 2015 - 09:43 AM, said:

This man is wise! PGI should listen to him! ive also wondered why what is essentially a robot deathmatch game has such high system requirements. its off putting to the more casual gamers like me, who consistantly get 25-30 fps, on most maps, sometimes a lot lower on others (mining collective most notably) the lack of more content, such as a campaign mode or side missions, or PvE are also off putting.

i know its a differant genre but look at the success of startrek online, theres so much to do in that game it boggles the mind in comparrision. and its system requirements are MUCH lower/ better optimised. in its current form this game feels like an elitists WoT. i think the main reason its still alive is because PGI currantly have monopoly on the big robot genre. if there was a differant BT game, like earthsiege for example, with more content/gamemodes, better optimisation, i know id most likley be playing that instead. and if it wasnt an F2P game even better, id actually buy it.

You mentioned the success of star trek online. That makes you a troll right there saying less than honest things. To put it mildly.

That game is a mess.

Edited by Johnny Z, 13 February 2015 - 09:50 AM.

[topgun505]

It would cost around 9.5 mil to get the 3 cheapest CDAs. Plus at least another 7 mil or so to upgrade heat sinks and endo/ff etc. So 16+ mil minus the 7 or so mil you get from cadet bonuses (and that's assuming they know exactly what to do and thus will not unnecessarily waste any money). Considering we have little built in to teach the the inner workings of the game and mech lab that is unlikely.

You're getting 1.6 mil in CW. Good for you. A cadet doesn't start off with the mechs sufficient to take to cw (and using trials is suicide) so you are mentioning a source of income that is generally not accessible to new players out of the gate.

Bottom line .. he'd have to grind an additional 9-10 million cbills after cadet bonuses in order to outfit 3 CDAs and really get things started. Bare minimum he's looking at 120-130 games (most likely a LOT more) just to get 'started'. If he isn't a great player right out of the gate and/or uses consumables then you can probably double that estimate.

The question is, does the average new player have the patience to do that?

Johnny Z, on 13 February 2015 - 09:24 AM, said:

I started trying to master Cicadas yesterday. I have 3 at the moment and should be done by tonight. Not sure what else to say.

Yes I had to sell some gear, but none of my mechs.

I had about 7 mill when I started so not a huge amnount.

Havnt used any MC.

I get another 1.6 mill next rank in House davion and a bit from doing matches. Will be neck high in creds in another 20 matches with nothing to spend it on.

Edited by topgun505, 13 February 2015 - 10:27 AM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

topgun505, on 13 February 2015 - 09:20 AM, said:

And all the figures being thrown around. All of them are assuming you don't use ANY consumables. Suddenly that 80-100k average goes down to 0-80k (depending how many you use).

The cadet bonuses are a nice wallet padding to start with... but generally it will only net you enough for ONE new mech. But you need 3 (plus the cost of the hidden dhs tax, etc). So the player grinds out his 25 games, gets one good mech, then has to grind 80-some hours doing 300+ games just to get the other two mechs so he can START unlocking the higher skills in it.

Sorry but yeah, that's asking a bit much of a new player. Almost certainly the new player will bail before he gets to the end of that process.

And then the cadet bonus will only allow you enogh to get a medium mech, or a cheap heavy unequipped......what if the person wants an assault early on? I always figured, maybe after cadet bonus we get 1 free mech granted to us free of charge.......

[Pahrias]

Johnny Z, on 13 February 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

You mentioned the success of star trek online. That makes you a troll right there saying less than honest things. To put it mildly.

That game is a mess.

for 1 it isnt dishonest just my belief. it may be a mess, but then so is WoT in my opinion. However, the games being goin for a long time and i assume its doing well considering they keep bringing out new content and it still has a large player base. and i used it as a comparision to the quantity of content and system requirements only.
and second calling someone a troll coz they mention another game... well i dont even have to say anything to that.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Bill Lumbar, on 07 February 2015 - 08:56 AM, said:

*lots of stuff*

can I like this again?

[Ovion]

Bill Lumbar, on 07 February 2015 - 09:31 AM, said:

Spoiler

Here are some of my numbers prior to patch and FPS fix done by PGI.....

2015-02-03 17:56:55 - MWOClient
Frames: 10726 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 59.589 - Min: 36 - Max: 86

2015-02-03 18:03:43 - MWOClient
Frames: 11463 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 63.683 - Min: 33 - Max: 102

2015-02-03 19:04:25 - MWOClient
Frames: 10252 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 56.956 - Min: 30 - Max: 75

2015-02-03 19:10:51 - MWOClient
Frames: 8326 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 46.256 - Min: 30 - Max: 119

2015-02-03 19:14:56 - MWOClient
Frames: 8678 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 48.211 - Min: 29 - Max: 108

Here are some games after the patch.....

2015-02-05 01:10:38 - MWOClient
Frames: 12173 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 67.628 - Min: 30 - Max: 108

2015-02-05 01:13:49 - MWOClient
Frames: 13790 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 76.611 - Min: 46 - Max: 108

2015-02-06 00:44:29 - MWOClient
Frames: 13088 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 72.711 - Min: 41 - Max: 117

2015-02-06 19:04:18 - MWOClient
Frames: 10383 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 57.683 - Min: 31 - Max: 95

2015-02-06 19:07:49 - MWOClient
Frames: 12494 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 69.411 - Min: 39 - Max: 100

All settings in game are High- Very high, Dx11, AA on

I have never touched my Config files as of right now, and I am not even sure on how to do it. lol. I am sure I could figure it out maybe with some help from those that have done it, but I really just kinda have to shake my head as to some of the work that some have felt the need to do just to not see major dips in their bad ass systems in this game. I have also never had any problems running any other game on my rigs performance wise and all the eye candy cranked up. Do you really think the majority of new players or even veterans of this game are willing or want to have to mess with Config files just so they don't see major dips on rigs that are $1000-4000+?

Lots of us do.

And I agree that it shouldn't have to be done.
But, even with certain improvements, a lot of stuff still relies on the user.cfg.
It's honestly pretty easy to do, and in my guide (I forget if I linked it), I explain how to do it all.
And if you have any questions, feel free to post in the thread or PM me.

[Cyberiad]

This game's economy sucks, nuff said. People should only be allowed to post once in these threads lest it get drowned out in the noise of white knights spewing the same garbage over and over again.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Silicon Life, on 13 February 2015 - 11:34 AM, said:

This game's economy sucks, nuff said. People should only be allowed to post once in these threads lest it get drowned out in the noise of white knights spewing the same garbage over and over again.

I will beat this dead horse long after its decayed and turned to dust until something changes....

[Tombstoner]

Johnny Z, on 13 February 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

You mentioned the success of star trek online. That makes you a troll right there saying less than honest things. To put it mildly.

That game is a mess.

I happen to enjoy that game to the tune of $200 vs. $80 for MWO. STO has been in production for 5 years. A non trivial feat. it just so happens you don't like what it has to offer. I consider pin point alpha strikes an abomination to gaming, others love it. To each their own. personally is see STO being much better in designed and true to the Star Trek IP then MWO can ever acheave from the current management of PGI:ghost heat, heat capacity, 2x armor, complete lack of an armor/speed/size cofactor to correctly translate TT to a FPS. just to name 3 off the top of my head.

If you want to know how messed up prices are all you need to know is they are based of the TT values and have nothing to do with MWO combat capabilities. all mechs in MWO should have the same price even if its a 20 ton vs. 100 ton. the exception being clans that should have a higher offset but still be relatively the same.

[Bill Lumbar]

Ovion, on 13 February 2015 - 10:54 AM, said:

Lots of us do.

And I agree that it shouldn't have to be done.
But, even with certain improvements, a lot of stuff still relies on the user.cfg.
It's honestly pretty easy to do, and in my guide (I forget if I linked it), I explain how to do it all.
And if you have any questions, feel free to post in the thread or PM me.

I appreciate the offer to help me out with it, and I might just take you and some others up on it. After all I hear that my FX-8350 needs all the help it can get. I guess one reason I haven't done anything other then standard in game settings is because I am afraid something will break if a patch happens. Maybe I am worried for nothing over it, and the sad part is that I know my FX-8350 is not as strong as many Intel chips in single core performance. In this game, it does matter I am sure... I have priced out so many Intel rigs its not even funny, yet I still haven't pulled the trigger yet as the build I am looking at if I go Z97 is gonna be around $700-800 just for mother board, ram and the I74790K.

Any other game I have played I have never had to tweak config files, or had to really worry about performance with my main gaming rig. When you start to look at the ungodly amounts of money some have thrown at this game, lack of real depth and content atm, and then having to "tweak" config files to get better than less than avg. performance in game + the low earnings IMO.... Ummmm yeah, its rather counter productive and starts to look like a second full time job. It really shouldn't be this way.

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 13 February 2015 - 05:11 PM.

[Ovion]

Just got 4 million playing casually on and off through the afternoon / evening.
Probably 1-2 hours early, an hour or two now, but hardly pushing it and chatting / doing other stuff. (3-5 matches an hour, more likely around the 3-4 mark)

This has been helped in the second half of play by the 24hour premium time from the challenge, but I wasn't unhappy with the earnings prior.

Edited by Ovion, 16 February 2015 - 02:33 AM.

[Dauntless Blint]

I only agree in the case of premium time,it almost may as well be the same as non premium for the average bonus you get.