116 replies to this topic

[Johnny Z]

Well reach rank 20 for any faction and you get like 5 mech bays, 100 mill creds and 3k MC. Thats on top of regular match rewards and like 10 other various rewards.

Edited by Johnny Z, 07 February 2015 - 08:50 AM.

[Bill Lumbar]

As some of you know, I have expressed my concerns and issues with the earnings till my face has turned blue. I signed up on a account on the twitch site, which is something I have never been willing to do just so I could partake and ask questions to Russ in the town hall regarding "earnings/Rewards" if one can really call them rewards. Two town hall meetings ago, my question got asked to Russ, or at least a "question" got asked with my name attached to it. The wording had been completely changed... and it was stated I wanted to know what PGI planned to do about earnings and keeping "new players" interested in the game in the future. My question was regarding the low earnings we have per match and the "grind" we have had for so long that only lets us advance at a snails pace. It was Geared at ALL players, not just the "new player experience".

Here is the thing for me, after stepping back and looking at this game for the past year. I have several gaming rigs built, 3 of which should have no issues playing this game with acceptable FPS, and smoothness.

My main gaming rig right now specs are:

FX-8350 @ 5ghz and water cooled with a $300+ dollar loop I put together 4 years ago.
Gigabyte 990fxa-UD3 Rev. 2
16 gb of DDR3 1866
Samsung 500 gb EVO SSD
ATI XFX DD 7970 3gb card
Windows 7 64 bit OS and tried/Tested with several Windows 10 TP builds, including the most recent one.

Until the patch the other day to address FPS issues many of us, if not all of us have faced the last 2+years, even with bad ass $2000-4000 Intel rigs with High end Nvidia and Amd cards. Amd users have seen a even lower FPS numbers then those running mid-high end AMD systems. While my rig has allowed me to play MWO fairly smooth most of the time, with decent FPS, It is out matched by Intel systems when putting out raw numbers for FPS. There have been several that I have seen post in the hardware section, that have had really nice rigs, $2500+, two 7970's in crossfire, running a Intel I7 that felt they had to drop another $700+ into their system and upgrade to Nvidia's biggest card just so they don't drop below 60 FPS, and still ended up doing so.

This is a JOKE IMO..... even if this was the best BT game we have ever seen produced in our life time, The fact that this game is not optimized, or is just now being optimized for ALL systems after 2+ years is concerning, at least to me it is. This is just ONE issue among several IMO that is wrong with this game. I would like to give props to PGI however for attempting to now fix the FPS issues that we all have endured, and please Russ... continue to make improvements on this issue if it can be done, it is needed for this game to advance, and for a bigger, happier player base that grows instead of shrinks.

Speaking of a shrinking player base.... PGI can continue to hope the "whales" will keep this game afloat, and be profitable to keep developing it. However, IMO, this mindset and model will only go so far, and build a very limited player base that is mostly consisted of die hard BT fans. IMO, this will only take this game so far, and keep it in development only so long before the "whales" lose interest in spending $500+ on a game if PGI doesn't really start to add depth and real content to this game. Don't get me wrong, I love more mechs coming to us all too, but at some point it really doesn't matter how many mechs are out in this game if many of the players have to spend $200-6000 grand to obtain them, Or Grind out 40+ hours a week, for a year straight, no breaks, 7 days a week, even with PT and a hero mech to obtain even half the 200+ mechs that are out right now, with more coming ever month. IMO, this is Insane!

I could be wrong here, but PGI would be much better off if they took a different approach to this model we have now. A more realistic one. Opinions will vary on what that would be, but IMO, what we have right now is not it. Everything in this game, besides Mech bays are priced extremely high for what you really get. In reality you are leasing a digital toy and at anytime it could go poof, just like that. When one factors in the cost of everything in this game, the cost for a gaming rig that can even play it at "decent" Fps, and the time needed to spend to advance at a snails pace because of low earnings/rewards... It starts to look like one will need to work a full time job, plus make this game a full time job, even after spending hundreds of dollars on it. One has to ask Russ, Is this model really sustainable and building up a player base that loves this game, or is it barely holding on to the players it has, and making more bitter players then happy players that are willing to continue to support this game with their hard earned cash?

Many of us have figured up our life time earnings/rewards, we have produced the numbers of hours, number of games played, money spent vs. what they have afforded us in this game. Some are fine with the numbers, some are not. I am one of the ones that are not fine with the numbers, and I find them to be a factor in killing the fun in this game. Lack of real content(other then shiny new mechs for sale) and depth in the game also is a big factor for me. I seriously hope at some point soon PGI takes another look at just where they want this game to go, what they are willing to put into it, and the cost they expect us to pay to further the advancement of this game, and the rate we ALL advance in this game.

Many say, "Oh well, its a F2P game, get over it." However, just to play this game at decent FPS, many have to invest $1000-4000 in a gaming rig right out the gate, or they have invested that much into a system. Until the last patch, many if not all players had issues with performance on this gaming rigs in this game, and to me that is not acceptable. Then you take into consideration the dollar amounts that some have spent to purchase "Packs, PT, MC, etc, etc," to help support the game...and add them all up and it starts to become a pretty large amount of cash, and just to "lease" some digital toys that could go poof at anytime.

I for one have spent $80 bucks to date on this game, I wanted to pick up the IS pack for $80 and even considered picking up the Urbie pack for $40. Key reason I haven't pulled the trigger and picked up both or spent more money on this game at this time, IMO, earning and rewards are painfully low, prices for everything are way to high, real depth and content in this game is lacking. PGI doesn't really seem to care about the prices or what I feel is very low earnings/rewards for ALL players, and to date, even though they are "working on it" there is not much depth or content to this game other than mechs being sold.

Bottom line, increase earnings in match by 30-50% for ALL or bust! If and when this game goes Steam, I could be wrong, but I really believe PGI has a wake up call coming regarding their current model. If they are looking to replace the "whales" they have now by going Steam, it might work for a little while, but at some point, the reviews from the masses will bite them in the ass. I truly believe the player base will not grow if they keep the current model and earnings.

Johnny Z, on 07 February 2015 - 08:49 AM, said:

Well reach rank 20 for any faction and you get like 5 mech bays, 100 mill creds and 3k MC. Thats on top of regular match rewards and like 10 other various rewards.

Good luck reaching that number..... its a long way to the top if you want to rock and roll!

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 07 February 2015 - 09:03 AM.

[Flaming oblivion]

Thing is you only really need two mechs is you chose wisely one from 2 diff weight classes for LOL I mean ELO reasons.

I think the grinds fine......... .C-bill wise.

The part I draw issue with Is mech skill trees,

And having to buy mechs you never wanted , I wouldn't care if they made the xp per skill 10x higher, I don't want to have to buy mechs I don't want.

[Catalinasgrace]

I would have to say that you are doing something wrong... On a really good game I get around 350k on a bad game I will still pull 90-120k...

[Ovion]

Torgun, on 07 February 2015 - 07:54 AM, said:

I'm sorry but your calculations are way off by at least 30% and probably more. I'm in the top 3 score on my team in a clear majority of my matches and I get around 100K in average without any bonuses. There's no way your average player would earn 15K more in average than I do, it should be more like 15-20K less than me, which would be about 80K. So divide your numbers by 1.4 and go from there.

Those numbers are based off of info from similar threads, people I know, and my own stats.

I'm not an amazing player, but I happily get 150-200k a win on average (probably 80-120 a loss). (depending on if I'm in a hero or not)
I comfortably earn 6-800k an hour regularly (playing 4-6 games an hour with a group), and a mil+ when I put in hard grind.
I'm generally in the top half of match score at least.
I also play support mechs/roles, and 1/5 of all my matches are in Locusts.

So either I am far better than I think I am, or you're doing something wrong.

[Celesteel]

Vlad Striker, on 07 February 2015 - 08:37 AM, said:

Premium time + C-bill mech bonus makes miracles.

LOL, because 0x50x30= ....oh ya...still 0!

[Ovion]

Bill Lumbar, on 07 February 2015 - 08:56 AM, said:

My main gaming rig right now specs are:
FX-8350 @ 5ghz and water cooled with a $300+ dollar loop I put together 4 years ago.
Gigabyte 990fxa-UD3 Rev. 2
16 gb of DDR3 1866
Samsung 500 gb EVO SSD
ATI XFX DD 7970 3gb card
Windows 7 64 bit OS and tried/Tested with several Windows 10 TP builds, including the most recent one.

While PGIs inherent and automated optimisation IS poor, did you ever try any optimisation yourself?
Did you ever look into it?

Because with £400 worth of hardware (I5, 8GB ram, GTX650TI) pre64bit patch, pre-optimisations I could comfortably run run it at 40-50FPS on near max settings.
Post those patches, same settings, I'm not really seeing much in the way of FPS drops and am going to try putting those last few options up to max.

But even before that, with gaming hardware from 2007 (3.2GhZ quad core, GTX9800+, 8GB DDR2), I was still seeing 25-40FPS on medium/high.

Using the user.cfg, optimising the settings, switching Enoirenment down a level, and using an external optimiser helps significantly.

I completely agree the optimisation isn't spectacular, but there's defiantely things you can do that those of us who played it sub-optimised had to find through necessity due to 15-25FPS rates without it.

[Michal R]

He doin something wrong.
1h i something about 1M.
Read about what is good to grind.
One of the best is to play spoter!
Best is ECM RVN 3L. TAG, NARC, and two friends with LRM.
An you can take 350k per match, witch only 100 dmg.
Simple and easy.

[Raggedyman]

RePlayBoy101, on 07 February 2015 - 02:52 AM, said:

wtf is with the economy... its sh!t

The game doesn't have an economy, it has a set exchange rate designed to pace out your progression. (Much like the "Skill Tree" isn't a skill tree, it's a "how the mech should be operating to begin with" anti-nerf process)

For it to have an economy it would need to have some kind of inter-player trading, and ideally some kind of dynamic pricing with variance in CBill costs depending on things like newness and how many people are buying/selling things. However PGI have shown no interest in exploring this concept (possibly because it would introduce dynamic CBill values, which means your $15 mech you bought with MC last week suddenly becomes 2 million rather than 3 million CBills and you would want your IRL Cash Back!!).

[Torgun]

Ovion, on 07 February 2015 - 09:02 AM, said:

Those numbers are based off of info from similar threads, people I know, and my own stats.

I'm not an amazing player, but I happily get 150-200k a win on average (probably 80-120 a loss). (depending on if I'm in a hero or not)
I comfortably earn 6-800k an hour regularly (playing 4-6 games an hour with a group), and a mil+ when I put in hard grind.
I'm generally in the top half of match score at least.
I also play support mechs/roles, and 1/5 of all my matches are in Locusts.

So either I am far better than I think I am, or you're doing something wrong.

I think you must play a lot with prem time or mechs with cbill bonus, no way in the current economy the average player is seeing 115K in average, not even close.

[RedlineHunter]

I rather like the new reward system in place but I feel it is more suited for light and medium mechs. They should apply a new reward set for the heavy and assault mechs since the play style is different. The system could use a 30-40% increase in C bills to bring the grind down a bit. Which would increase MechBay purchases since players will be able to acquire mechs a little easier.

[Bill Lumbar]

Ovion, on 07 February 2015 - 09:10 AM, said:

While PGIs inherent and automated optimisation IS poor, did you ever try any optimisation yourself?
Did you ever look into it?

Because with £400 worth of hardware (I5, 8GB ram, GTX650TI) pre64bit patch, pre-optimisations I could comfortably run run it at 40-50FPS on near max settings.
Post those patches, same settings, I'm not really seeing much in the way of FPS drops and am going to try putting those last few options up to max.

But even before that, with gaming hardware from 2007 (3.2GhZ quad core, GTX9800+, 8GB DDR2), I was still seeing 25-40FPS on medium/high.

Using the user.cfg, optimising the settings, switching Enoirenment down a level, and using an external optimiser helps significantly.

I completely agree the optimisation isn't spectacular, but there's defiantely things you can do that those of us who played it sub-optimised had to find through necessity due to 15-25FPS rates without it.

Here are some of my numbers prior to patch and FPS fix done by PGI.....

2015-02-03 17:56:55 - MWOClient
Frames: 10726 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 59.589 - Min: 36 - Max: 86

2015-02-03 18:03:43 - MWOClient
Frames: 11463 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 63.683 - Min: 33 - Max: 102

2015-02-03 19:04:25 - MWOClient
Frames: 10252 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 56.956 - Min: 30 - Max: 75

2015-02-03 19:10:51 - MWOClient
Frames: 8326 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 46.256 - Min: 30 - Max: 119

2015-02-03 19:14:56 - MWOClient
Frames: 8678 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 48.211 - Min: 29 - Max: 108

Here are some games after the patch.....

2015-02-05 01:10:38 - MWOClient
Frames: 12173 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 67.628 - Min: 30 - Max: 108

2015-02-05 01:13:49 - MWOClient
Frames: 13790 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 76.611 - Min: 46 - Max: 108

2015-02-06 00:44:29 - MWOClient
Frames: 13088 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 72.711 - Min: 41 - Max: 117

2015-02-06 19:04:18 - MWOClient
Frames: 10383 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 57.683 - Min: 31 - Max: 95

2015-02-06 19:07:49 - MWOClient
Frames: 12494 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 69.411 - Min: 39 - Max: 100

All settings in game are High- Very high, Dx11, AA on

I have never touched my Config files as of right now, and I am not even sure on how to do it. lol. I am sure I could figure it out maybe with some help from those that have done it, but I really just kinda have to shake my head as to some of the work that some have felt the need to do just to not see major dips in their bad ass systems in this game. I have also never had any problems running any other game on my rigs performance wise and all the eye candy cranked up. Do you really think the majority of new players or even veterans of this game are willing or want to have to mess with Config files just so they don't see major dips on rigs that are $1000-4000+?

[Sug]

Michal R, on 07 February 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:

One of the best is to play spoter!
Best is ECM RVN 3L. TAG, NARC, and two friends with LRM.
An you can take 350k per match, witch only 100 dmg.
Simple and easy.

That is simply not true unless everyone in the match but you and your two friends dc's.

[Cyborne Elemental]

I dunno, this still feels off by quite a bit..
I would make this without premium time with a game like this before the new rewards system.

[Felbombling]

My advice to you is to take advantage of sales and promotions when they become available. The prices are crazy at full pop, but seem a little more reasonable at discount. Starter bundles are a great way to go, given that they work out to about a 50% discount.

If you are willing to spend zero on the game, I don't think you should expect fast progression. My take on free to play is that it is just that, free. If I invest the same amount of money as I would in a store bought copy of something, I can expect things to go faster. Take $40.00 and purchase the Enforcer package. You'll get six Mechs, six Mech Bays, six colours, some cockpit items. Best of all, some of the variants in the package already come with upgrades like Endo steel and improved weapons. Not only that, but two of the Enforcers come with 250XL engines, which just so happen to be the max engine rating on the Panther. Voila! A little swap here and there and you're off to the races in a maxed out Light Mech, making pretty good in-game funds.

I'm a World of Tanks player, also, and you can play hundreds of games just to get enough in-game currency to purchase the higher end-game content like a tier X tank.

[Revener]

RePlayBoy101, on 07 February 2015 - 03:13 AM, said:

world of tanks ... 300000 for a gun there ... thats 10-15 games of grinding ... yes its easier there than here (and that game is considered a grinding game)

Ehh....! what WoT have you played? It is much easier to earn money in MWO. a 300000 gun here is about 3 games.
In wot its anywhere between 30-6 games, the income there is much more variable depending on what tank and tier you play and how a ******** team you got. But sure if you play lets say the Kv-5 or the Type 59 and you stay alive and do a decent amount of damage you would earn 300000 in about 6 games AFTER you have paid for repairs and ammo. And you may even have games where you loose money, wich you don't get here.

[BourbonFaucet]

Amused by the other founders defending the poop-tier earnings system we have.

*popcorn*

[Pahrias]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 February 2015 - 05:20 AM, said:

I am not worried that I am. That is the problem you are having.
Consistent is the 90-120K I earn since teh change to income, Which is consistently 20-40K more than i used to earn. I was fine making less than I do now, Why would I be less happy making more?

so then why are u arguing to keep it the same? an avrg player, like me and you, would only benifit from a pay increase, as would the newer players. ive known quite a few ppl that ive introduced to the game that quit because this grind was maddening for them. and you gotta admit, its a bit of a push from PGI to get ppl to buy prem time or MC. which is a bit of a low blow if u ask me but thats just my opinion.
tho, another possible "fix" if you will, would be to lower the overall C-bill costs of everything. especially engines, most of those cost as much as a whole damn mech!

[PurpleNinja]

Do you have a job?

[LordKnightFandragon]

Revener, on 07 February 2015 - 03:09 AM, said:

Huh? Nothing wrong with the economy and its certainly not easier to earn money in other games. UInless they use instant gratification and last you a week because you get bored of being a billionaire.

Actually it is. Here, you run standard and have an average match you make 70-100k.

WoT, you play standard and have an average match, you bank 15-20K That is 5-7 games per 100,000. There, you need 200-300K for a top tier tank gun, and just the ONE tank gun. In total, you will elite a Tier 7-9 tank with 1.5-2million. And you only need to do it once. THe tank will run you 1.5-3million, depending on tier. But you need it ONCE. EQuipment modules are 250-600k. So, maybe 5 million in total for 1 mastered Heavy tank at Tier 9. At 15-20K per average game... maybe 250 games, and your done.


MWO, to get 1 master *tier 9* mech, tier 9, lets call it an Assault, and a Clan Assault, the Warhawk, its about 15million a piece. And you need 3, so, no less then about 45 million JUST to get the mechs. At 70-100K average per game...that is what? 450 games? And remeber, you havent bought any modules, guns, equipment or anything. That is just hte mechs.

If you want to upgrade or change the guns on the mech, LPL, AC20s, AC10s, LRMs, those run you 300-800K, and you need like 6 guns. So, another 30 games while you get teh money for the guns. So, 480 games and your still not done, you want modules now. Lets go with the cheap weapon modules, and you want 2? 3 million a piece, so, 6million total. Another 60 games or so, 540 games later and if you still want a mech module, that is another 6 million......

So in the end, just to get 1 highish tier mech all tricked out, you gotta play like 600 games, vs in WoT, MAYBE 300.....and the money isnt better in other games...ok lol....

It looks even more absurd if we compare lower tier tanks vs lighter and cheaper mechs.....In WoT you can be in an elite KV1 Heavy tank at T5 inside of 200 games, and that is if you play from 0 games at Tier 1. In MWO, after your cadet bonus of 25 games, you might have enough to buy 1 stock Centurion. But, once your cadet bonus ends, its 2.5 million for the mech, 1.5 million for each upgrade on the heat sinks, the armor, the endo, the weapons....yeah......maybe 300 games later you will have your mastered, but not fully moduled up T5 medium mech....

Oh, MWO economy is worse then other games for sure.