32 replies to this topic

[Roadbeer]

Everyone ******* about the "Marik Light Rush".

They know it's coming, they've seen it almost every match for the last month.

And here's the best part,

THEY STILL FALL TO IT.

FFS guys, get some tactics.

[Strykewolf]

We tend to attrit, many times. Mostly for the cbill generation and well, it's just fun. Been a few times we'd light rush...but, it's used as another 'tool' in the box. Drives the clanners nuts, though.

[Joe Decker]

To be honest it is not that easy to stop it. But it is possible. As an Attacker you got the Advantage that you are done within 3 to 6 Minutes and can drop again. Important Tool against Enemies with bigger Numbers. If PGI fixes the Population Levels in CW in the Future there will be less Need for quick Wins.

[HARDKOR]

I would leave a unit that did this a lot. I can see doing it if you need to win three times in the next 40 min before ceasefire, but as a way to play the game? No thanks.

So much more fun to just kill them all and ignore the generators till everyone is dead.

[cranect]

I know I like to light rush the first wave and then you attrition the next 2 waves and finish it up with another light.

[Smokeyjedi]

My and my buddies with LPL loadouts beg to differ. Tonight, same as every night, we dine on the legs of lights, crisped to perfection.

[LordSkyKnight]

The problem with this is that the only way to stop it consistently is highly skilled players playing on machines that get high FPS using high alpha builds. There is no real 'tactic' to stop it other than try to kill or leg the lights before they kill the objectives. If you think that the light rush is anything other than abusing broken game mechanics, I've lost a bit of respect for you there Roadbeer. Usually you're a voice of reason on these shitpost filled forums.

[Roadbeer]

LordSkyKnight, on 08 February 2015 - 04:59 PM, said:

The problem with this is that the only way to stop it consistently is highly skilled players playing on machines that get high FPS using high alpha builds. There is no real 'tactic' to stop it other than try to kill or leg the lights before they kill the objectives. If you think that the light rush is anything other than abusing broken game mechanics, I've lost a bit of respect for you there Roadbeer. Usually you're a voice of reason on these shitpost filled forums.

You'd have a stronger argument about low system specs when facing Clan LRMs than the light zerg. I know players who find the ability to fight the Clans unplayable once the LRMs take flight, but are still able to play against the light rush.

It does simply break down to tactics, and I'll give you one small example...

Boreal. Don't spread out, keep back by Omega. Figure out which side the lights are coming from (as usually it's in a blob) and cover one gen, and maybe a couple around the middle gen. They won't get all 3 on the first push. Attack blunted.

All I'm saying with this thread is, if after a solid month of facing this every night, it's not a big mystery how to stop it. I'm just dumbfounded that even organized teams with top end PC builds still fall to do it.

[BIoB]

Also I think there is a bit of confusion on the use of a light wave......Its not used to finish a match instantly, you take omega down to 10% and then you start or continue to brawl for c-bills until all mechs are dead.

It just offers you security that you will win the match regardless of the out come of the brawl.

Valid tactic, has been done against marik many times in the early days but its very easy to counter......Intel is everything

[Karl Marlow]

Irish BoB, on 08 February 2015 - 05:38 PM, said:

Also I think there is a bit of confusion on the use of a light wave......Its not used to finish a match instantly, you take omega down to 10% and then you start or continue to brawl for c-bills until all mechs are dead.

It just offers you security that you will win the match regardless of the out come of the brawl.

Valid tactic, has been done against marik many times in the early days but its very easy to counter......Intel is everything

Meh. If I wanted to brawl I'd queue up on Skirmish. When I play CW I play for planets.

[Moarginplz]

LordSkyKnight, on 08 February 2015 - 04:59 PM, said:

The problem with this is that the only way to stop it consistently is highly skilled players playing on machines that get high FPS using high alpha builds.

???

Do you not have wubs or lbx's on the Davion side of the border?

[LordSkyKnight]

You're right, organized teams shouldn't still be falling to the light rush every time. I still think a well executed light rush is nearly unbeatable by anyone other than an organized 12 man, and as such needs to be addressed by PGI, but I concede the point that it isn't entirely unbeatable for said organized teams. My point is that there is no real tactic to beat it other than 'be a good shot.' Most other strategies allow for at least one, if not several options to counter it. The light rush counter is 'be a good shot' while allowing even the worst of pilots to easily win CW matches. Roadbeer is saying 'it's old news get over it.' I'm saying 'it's still bad for the game mode, we shouldn't have to get over it.

[Kjudoon]

Roadbeer, on 08 February 2015 - 12:00 AM, said:

Everyone ******* about the "Marik Light Rush".

They know it's coming, they've seen it almost every match for the last month.

And here's the best part,

THEY STILL FALL TO IT.

FFS guys, get some tactics.

They're mad their cheese builds don't automatically trump Marik cheese tactics automatically anymore.

Cheesy be easy.

[Moarginplz]

LordSkyKnight, on 08 February 2015 - 06:24 PM, said:

You're right, organized teams shouldn't still be falling to the light rush every time. I still think a well executed light rush is nearly unbeatable by anyone other than an organized 12 man, and as such needs to be addressed by PGI, but I concede the point that it isn't entirely unbeatable for said organized teams. My point is that there is no real tactic to beat it other than 'be a good shot.'

Even if you're not a good shot, with pulse lasers or lbx's, you don't have to be. Hell, you can run a streak boat and not even have to aim, if you're feeling that way about it. Positioning is important though.

House Marik learned these things a month and a half ago, primarily from fighting the Davions. That's Roadbeer's point; House Marik isn't really where you go for uber-competitive teams, so how is it that a month and a half after we've got this down, people refuse to adapt and make the changes to fight it effectively?

[Davers]

LordSkyKnight, on 08 February 2015 - 06:24 PM, said:

You're right, organized teams shouldn't still be falling to the light rush every time. I still think a well executed light rush is nearly unbeatable by anyone other than an organized 12 man, and as such needs to be addressed by PGI, but I concede the point that it isn't entirely unbeatable for said organized teams. My point is that there is no real tactic to beat it other than 'be a good shot.' Most other strategies allow for at least one, if not several options to counter it. The light rush counter is 'be a good shot' while allowing even the worst of pilots to easily win CW matches. Roadbeer is saying 'it's old news get over it.' I'm saying 'it's still bad for the game mode, we shouldn't have to get over it.

So the worst pilots are beating the worst gunners?

"I want to kill more mechs, but I don't want to learn how to shoot. Being a good shot shouldn't be important when it comes to killing mechs. PGI plz fix."

[cranect]

I can sympathize a bit with those who have poor computers for this game... My laptop only has a HD4000 video card and didnt meet the minimum specs for this game. Lights occasionally teleported across the screen due to low frames. I would still get lucky with my Awesomes 3 PPCs though and leg one. You have to get stupidly good at guessing to hit anything. Especially lights.

[LordSkyKnight]

Moarginplz, on 08 February 2015 - 06:45 PM, said:

Even if you're not a good shot, with pulse lasers or lbx's, you don't have to be. Hell, you can run a streak boat and not even have to aim, if you're feeling that way about it. Positioning is important though.

House Marik learned these things a month and a half ago, primarily from fighting the Davions. That's Roadbeer's point; House Marik isn't really where you go for uber-competitive teams, so how is it that a month and a half after we've got this down, people refuse to adapt and make the changes to fight it effectively?

Marik may not be the place to go for comp teams, but they're the place to go for teamwork. Again, I'm not saying the tactic is unbeatable. I'm saying its unbalanced.

Davers, on 08 February 2015 - 06:52 PM, said:

So the worst pilots are beating the worst gunners?

"I want to kill more mechs, but I don't want to learn how to shoot. Being a good shot shouldn't be important when it comes to killing mechs. PGI plz fix."

Not what I'm saying exactly, but good job making it into a personal attack on me when I was trying to make an argument about how the tactic is bad for the game mode in general.

[Davers]

LordSkyKnight, on 08 February 2015 - 06:58 PM, said:

Marik may not be the place to go for comp teams, but they're the place to go for teamwork. Again, I'm not saying the tactic is unbeatable. I'm saying its unbalanced.



Not what I'm saying exactly, but good job making it into a personal attack on me when I was trying to make an argument about how the tactic is bad for the game mode in general.

Too serious.

I guess the questions are: Do we want 160 ton drop decks to be as useful as 240 ton decks? Do light mechs have a place in CW? Do game modes based around the destruction of static targets have a place in CW?

[LordSkyKnight]

I think lights do have a place in CW. They're tonnage efficient and allow you to bring bigger badder mechs. They also act as scouts for the main force to allow those bigger badder mechs to react in time, while still being able to contribute to the fight as larger mechs pound on each other. I do not think a 160 ton drop deck should be as effective as a 240 ton drop deck. But then, I think the tonnage limit should be tonnage/team, not tonnage/person. That way someone better in lights can use only lights and not be a drain on their team. I like the CW invasion game mode. Objective based games are great, especially now that counter attack is more of a team deathmatch. Variety is the spice of life. But the light rush is an easy, difficult to counter method of winning the invasion game mode which is highly frustrating to play against for the majority of the playerbase. And don't try to argue that it isn't difficult to counter just because it can be beaten. That isn't a valid argument. Dark Souls can be beaten, that doesn't make it easy. I'm not sure how exactly to make it more difficult to execute without unbalancing other things, but I think it needs to be done.

Edited by LordSkyKnight, 08 February 2015 - 07:24 PM.

[Davers]

LordSkyKnight, on 08 February 2015 - 07:18 PM, said:

I think lights do have a place in CW. They're tonnage efficient and allow you to bring bigger badder mechs. They also act as scouts for the main force to allow those bigger badder mechs to react in time, while still being able to contribute to the fight as larger mechs pound on each other. I do not think a 160 ton drop deck should be as effective as a 240 ton drop deck. But then, I think the tonnage limit should be tonnage/team, not tonnage/person. That way someone better in lights can use only lights and not be a drain on their team. I like the CW invasion game mode. Objective based games are great, especially now that counter attack is more of a team deathmatch. Variety is the spice of life. But the light rush is an easy, difficult to counter method of winning the invasion game mode which is highly frustrating to play against for the majority of the playerbase. And don't try to argue that it isn't difficult to counter just because it can be beaten. That isn't a valid argument. Dark Souls can be beaten, that doesn't make it easy. I'm not sure how exactly to make it more difficult to execute without unbalancing other things, but I think it needs to be done.

1. So you seem to have a very restricted view of lights. You see them as 'deck filler' and scouts. But don't believe light mechs should be 'big and bad' on their own. You don't think a 160 ton deck should be as good as a 240 ton deck. So light mechs winning the game mode by themselves isn't something you like. Fine.

2. Counterattack is not a game mode with objectives. Destruction of the MFB after the defenders are defeated isn't really a valid objective.