86 replies to this topic

[Dawnstealer]

Flaming oblivion, on 08 February 2015 - 02:58 PM, said:

^ Yeah were poor sports. Get as many CW games in while the pugs are still there, Wont last.

Claiming that its fair when one team can have coms min/max drop decks built to work perfectly together and A HIGHER AVERAGE ELO..................

Is bs , Just like CW absolute BS

If only you had access to clan tech, right?

[Ax2Grind]

Triordinant, on 08 February 2015 - 03:44 PM, said:

Actually, it sounds like you're a very unlucky person. PGI (and only PGI) has access to the numbers so they know better than either of us.

From screenshots I know this is not just a personal experience, but it in fact happens on a regular basis to hundreds of other players who I have grouped with in the past and present. Part of the problem here is perception. Rolls are actually very easy to create because of the mechanics of the game, even with teams that have great mechs selected and are "even in skill".

ELO does not make a match "fair". ELO in theory just tries to minimize the skill disparity. That disparity always exists and many would say it is the very thing you are trying to compete against in a game...that is the challenge.

And that brings up a great point...all of this whining about "fair" is the issue. If you want to ask for a lesser challenge that is fine, but calling it unfair is untrue. Everyone has access to the game in the same way (that I know of). It is up to each of us to make of it what we will. At times this means the game can be very challenging, as I regularly come up against players and teams that are better than me. Other times I get in the zone and I find myself creating a challenge for others. Usually the best team games I play get decided based off who makes the first mistakes and who takes advantage of those mistakes. All of this is fair. And the best part, for me, all of this fun.

Edited by Ax2Grind, 08 February 2015 - 03:56 PM.

[CantHandletheTruth]

Ax2Grind, on 08 February 2015 - 03:50 PM, said:

ELO does not make a match "fair". ELO in theory just tries to minimize the skill disparity. That disparity always exists and many would say it is the very thing you are trying to compete against in a game...that is the challenge.

Not really, I was dropping with guys from comp teams while I still had cadet the cadet bonus.

Plain and simple the pool isn't big enough for the demands placed on the match maker.

[Triordinant]

Ax2Grind, on 08 February 2015 - 03:50 PM, said:

ELO does not make a match "fair". ELO in theory just tries to minimize the skill disparity. That disparity always exists and many would say it is the very thing you are trying to compete against in a game...that is the challenge.

Elo makes a match "more fair" but it's not perfect. The second equalizing factor is that it's solo-only. These two combined simply make the public solo-only queue much more fun than CW for PUGs and that's the bottom line.

[CantHandletheTruth]

Triordinant, on 08 February 2015 - 03:55 PM, said:

Elo makes a match "more fair" but it's not perfect. The second equalizing factor is that it's solo-only. These two combined simply make the public solo-only queue much more fun than CW for PUGs and that's the bottom line.

You can pug CW just fine, its a matter of team work.

However you DO get those teams where four guys refuse to commit, no one knows how to open the gates and whatnot that are pretty brutal. Attacking CW with a pug team can go pretty well, a lot of the time its the people GETTTING stomped to BLAME for getting stomped, because they try to poke from the gate like its a pub match and that simple doesn't work if there are objectives to play for.

[Ax2Grind]

CantHandletheTruth, on 08 February 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

Not really, I was dropping with guys from comp teams while I still had cadet the cadet bonus.

Plain and simple the pool isn't big enough for the demands placed on the match maker.

There ya go...apparently the famed ELO does not in fact even limit the skill disparity due to how small our population is.

Triordinant, on 08 February 2015 - 03:55 PM, said:

Elo makes a match "more fair" but it's not perfect. The second equalizing factor is that it's solo-only. These two combined simply make the public solo-only queue much more fun than CW for PUGs and that's the bottom line.

More fun for you because you find the chaos of the solo queue to be easier to operate in. Awesome. I prefer the team oriented games more. But "more fair"...not even...its all equally as fair.

[Triordinant]

CantHandletheTruth, on 08 February 2015 - 03:57 PM, said:

You can pug CW just fine, its a matter of team work.

If you have fun pugging in CW, go do it. Just don't expect the rest of us to.

[CantHandletheTruth]

Triordinant, on 08 February 2015 - 03:55 PM, said:

Elo makes a match "more fair" but it's not perfect. The second equalizing factor is that it's solo-only. These two combined simply make the public solo-only queue much more fun than CW for PUGs and that's the bottom line.

I disagree, I only really pub queue when there is a ceasefire going on. That includes dropping solo.

[PanzerSmurf]

All I read here is people qqing like always.

I do PuG drops and Unit drops, working together has nothing to do with ELO or having coms (although having coms can make thing easier).

All I read is some qqing about how you don't want to put effort into the game like others do, thus demand you only get paired with your like wise selfish players forcing new players to suck up your egocentrically play style.

Yelling "it's not fair some groups are more willing to do things to coordinate then me in a team game, so nerf!" isn't going to impress me 1 bit and I hope PGI feels the same.

The name "community warfare" should say it all, it's "community" no "solo-player" warfare.

I can even enjoy a match when losing, I suggest you try enjoying too, it's called doing your best and working together the best you can but still losing, it's not the end of the world.

What I can't enjoy however is solo minded players in a team game who think they have a right to have fun by themselves while screwing over their team by doing it.

Edited by PanzerSmurf, 08 February 2015 - 04:08 PM.

[Triordinant]

Ax2Grind, on 08 February 2015 - 04:00 PM, said:

But "more fair"...not even...its all equally as fair.

It's not fair if an elite 12-man Unit goes up against a mostly PUG team. That's possible in CW but impossible in the solo-only queue, so YES it is "more fair."

[Ax2Grind]

Triordinant, on 08 February 2015 - 04:02 PM, said:

If you have fun pugging in CW, go do it. Just don't expect the rest of us to.

No one is expecting you to do anything. Most of us are just trying to be helpful and point to actual solutions and mindsets that allow someone to PUG with more enjoyment and success. You are by no means required to take advantage of all of the things the rest of us enjoy, but the invitation to do so is always there.

Triordinant, on 08 February 2015 - 04:10 PM, said:

It's not fair if an elite 12-man Unit goes up against a mostly PUG team. That's possible in CW but impossible in the solo-only queue, so YES it is "more fair."

That is completely fair...it the choice of all the players involved to decide how they wanted to play CW. Stop the QQ and take responsibility for your own choices!

[Triordinant]

Ax2Grind, on 08 February 2015 - 04:15 PM, said:

No one is expecting you to do anything. Most of us are just trying to be helpful and point to actual solutions and mindsets that allow someone to PUG with more enjoyment and success. You are by no means required to take advantage of all of the things the rest of us enjoy, but the invitation to do so is always there.

Agreed. You play in your queue, we'll play in ours and PGI will decide what happens next.

Ax2Grind, on 08 February 2015 - 04:15 PM, said:

That is completely fair...it the choice of all the players involved to decide how they wanted to play CW. Stop the QQ and take responsibility for your own choices!

We are taking responsibility for our choices. Our choice is the public solo-only queue and we're enjoying it.

[Bulletsponge0]

Triordinant, on 08 February 2015 - 03:20 PM, said:

Wrong again. We want to battle people who are are our equals. That's exactly what happens in the public solo-only queue with Elo matchmaking and PGI has already stated that matchmaking is working well in the solo-only queue despite the whining of a few. Elo makes sure skill levels are roughly equal and solo-only means members of well-trained competitive teams have to win based on skill rather than being carried by their teams of fully mastered, preselected and coordinated 'mechs.

You are aware that the OP is one of "the few" you talk about who complains about the matchmaker in the solo queue too?

[Triordinant]

Bulletsponge0, on 08 February 2015 - 04:24 PM, said:

You are aware that the OP is one of "the few" you talk about who complains about the matchmaker in the solo queue too?

Yes, but PGI knows better than he or I (or anyone else in the forums) and they said it's working well in the solo-only queue.

[CantHandletheTruth]

Triordinant, on 08 February 2015 - 03:46 PM, said:

What part of "we want to battle people who are our equals" do you not understand? Read it again.

Then why are you QQing in the CW section.

[Triordinant]

CantHandletheTruth, on 08 February 2015 - 04:36 PM, said:

Then why are you QQing in the CW section.

The OP complained about CW and I told him he shouldn't try it until it's out of Beta. Others replied to my reply so I replied to them. Read on.

[CantHandletheTruth]

Triordinant, on 08 February 2015 - 04:40 PM, said:

The OP complained about CW and I told him he shouldn't try it until it's out of Beta. Others replied to my reply so I replied to them. Read on.

This is PGI "live" CW is pretty much going to be exactly what we have today.

[Triordinant]

CantHandletheTruth, on 08 February 2015 - 04:41 PM, said:

This is PGI "live" CW is pretty much going to be exactly what we have today.

I tend to agree with you. That's why I told him to "try" it once it's out of Beta. As I pointed out here, it might not be much better than it is now.

[Tarogato]

Triordinant, on 08 February 2015 - 03:37 PM, said:

I do not complain about losing a match in the solo-only queue because I know it's a fair fight. Don't put words in my mouth. We beat PUG teams with members of competitive Units in them as often as we lose to them because it's a fair fight. Best of all, most matches I play in the solo-only queue are close, winning or losing 12-9 or thereabouts.

Thank you; sensible answer is sensible. =]

[Joseph Mallan]

Triordinant, on 08 February 2015 - 03:00 PM, said:

No, it is definitely NOT. Having access to the same tools can't make up for the fact that the competitive Units have trained together for months so they know each others moves; or that they've memorized the main features of all the maps and have code names for them so they don't need to use Battle Grid coordinates; or that their 'mechs are not only fully mastered and moduled but their 'mechs and loadouts are preselected to work together as a coordinated team and compliment each others' strengths while making up for the weaknesses.

Requiring soloists to group up and train as hard as the elite comp teams in order to have a fair fight will NOT work. They just won't play CW and that's already happened. CW is not war, it's a game and people won't play it if they're not having fun. More details here.

As a PUG I have to ask, Who's fault is it that You did not practice with the same players, hone your teamwork and then EXPECT to be an equal to a group who practices everyday? Cause as a PUG, I go into CW knowing full well that I will face steep odds and likely be hammered. I have not been disappointed.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 09 February 2015 - 04:12 AM.