49 replies to this topic

[Mastr]

Not everyone is going to follow zell, especially those who have never even heard of it. It is up to clan players to set the example in game. Even within the bt universe not all clansmen at all times follow the rules of zell. I am not trying to advocate ditching the practice, just that it is up to the individual clansmen to make the decision and up to us to show him.

Edited by Mastr, 04 March 2012 - 07:54 PM.

[KBone]

Basch, on 04 March 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

Hay guys i did have a question about Zellbringen iv been going over in my head and im hopeing i can get a clearer idea of how zell works.
I know that its dishonerable to shoot a mech in the back but lets say you roll up on a IS lance and your in the flanking position, do you walk right out infront of them and go "HAY SHOOT ME!" or do you exploit your advantage? Would it change any of the IS lance was fireing on a clan position or laying in ambush?

To answer your question, no. Most clanner do not view most IS forces as being honorable; therefore, will not grant Zellbrigen to them, freeing the clan forces to exploit ANY advantage they have in combat. There are a few exception where IS units have proven themselves honorable in the eyes of the clans; however, it MUST be proven after combat before it will be extended to those unit. Expect that if you are on the wrong end of a Clan assault, you will NOT receive the accordance of Zellbrigen until you have defeated your clan opponent fairly and soundly enough to earn their respect (and even then it will only come grudgingly after you ASK for it).

[Odins Reaver]

While I have no issues with Zellbrigen, and in fact I believe that clan warriors should be rewarded for it, I do not see it becoming a standard in this game.

[Slapshot]

I think there are enough traditional clan players here that Zellbrigen could end up being an unwritten rule. Of course how much clan vs clan warfare there even be?

Edited by Slapshot, 17 March 2012 - 08:33 PM.

[MarauderDeuce]

Here's a thought which occurred to me yesterday - sort of a reverse Zellbrigen thought.

As someone who's keen to RP the Clans properly (Zellbringen and all as best as I can) I'd hate to see the following happen.

Consider this part story re-write as I could imagine it happening in MWO-

Scene - The Rock - Phelan Kell's unit has been dispatched to hunt down pirates.

Star Captain Ward of Clan Wolf finishes off the pirates, watched by Phelan. Taking down the last pirate Ward turns his mech to face Phelan and starts to declare his batchall against Phelan's troops. Part way through his whole unit is struck from behind by concealed LRM launchers which were placed with the foreknowledge of where the Clan Wolf star would be located.

[rant: on]
I've been hearing a lot of players who presumably are IS oriented complaining in various Clan threads (I don't read the IS or Merc threads) about how they fear we're all just min-maxers out to spread 1337 carnage. I really hope these same people don't suddenly decide that they need to turn the periphery into a virtual fortress just in time for the clan invasion and that we don't have the effective IS elite all declaring themselves to be training units upon their first contact with the Clans. There's RP on both sides and we can all stuff the game up in one way or another .

Various bellyachers out there (on both sides) - for smeg's sake, stop looking at how this can all go wrong and start thinking about how it can go right, I'm well fed up with the fine-tooth comb nit picking I've seen around here! If I want to RP zellbrigen then I'll probably end up partying with others who would like to do the same. If we challenge you and we fight by it and you don't then zellbringen allows for that and releases us from it's restraints.
[rant: off]

If we wish to undergo sibco training, a trial of position or participate for a Bloodname in a grand-mele and as long as we're doing things allowed for in the mechanics of the game then why shouldn't we? I don't claim to read every word but I don't remember anyone saying that anyone trying to use a bloodname in game without undergoing their approved processing should be booted or similar - it's simply a suggestion for those who want to RP that way.

Final analysis - it's only a flaming game!

Actually - it's not even that yet for most of us...

Edited by MarauderDeuce, 18 March 2012 - 02:13 AM.

[Gremlich Johns]

IMHO, the only place Zellbrigen will be observed is in a Clan-only server or in a main server between two authentic BT-milieu Clans. I believe this may be possible, even within MWO.

For any IS-oriented haters in this thread pooh-poohing the OP, why are you even bothering, Clan-oriented players are just going to ignore you unless you, the IS-oriented player, has something salient to add. Read "salient" as both "cogent" and "well-considered".

[Creed Buhallin]

This simply isn't going to happen.

I played (and led) multiple clans in the good old days of BattleTech MU*s. Even there, with nothing but relatively dedicated, knowledgable BattleTech players, it was essentially impossible to implement and enforce. Everyone knows it's a massive handicap, and too many players are on a hair trigger looking for any violation. Throw in everyone trying to get the most advantageous challenges they can, and it's a recipe for a nonfunctional system that causes nothing but heartache.

Yes, I know that some people really will follow it to a loss, or look for a match where they're intentionally outgunned, but they're by far the minority. The same will apply here. Assuming you can have directed battles between merc outfits you'll probably have a few enclaves of diehard roleplayers who specialize in it, and that'll be great - I'd probably even try to be involved in it. But for the population as a whole, it's simply not going to work, and it'll be better if people are realistic about that, and what they expect from the devs in terms of support for it.

[Gremlich Johns]

fm:Creed Buhallin

too many players are on a hair trigger looking for any violation

roger that!!! I hate those guys...

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 19 March 2012 - 02:19 PM.

[Creed Buhallin]

Just noticed your sig, Gremlich - the Blood Spirits were one of the clans I led, I want to say on 3060 (hard to remember them all, since they all used numbers and it was 15 years ago ) That particular campaign I had my saKhan who was watching a pair of Adders duel decide the other had broken zellbrigen (don't even remember why) and she opened up on the enemy with an alpha strike - from her Dire Wolf. Needless to say the opponent disagreed, and I spent the next two weeks trying to smooth that over and keep the entire server from going to hell.

Which is why I say this will never work. It's hard to do even among diehard roleplayers, with an open game like MWO you can pretty much forget it unless there is some coded-in mechanic.

[Gremlich Johns]

Creed Buhallin, on 19 March 2012 - 02:36 PM, said:

I spent the next two weeks trying to smooth that over and keep the entire server from going to hell.

Being Khan or saKhan is not fun sometimes (I was Khan in NBT-HC for CBS). The other thing that can be done is have an umpire, preferable the Loremaster or Oathmaster, who both sides can agree to. His word is final. It would have to be a quick call sometimes (a simple yes or no would suffice or a call of "valid" or "cease fire freeze").