22 replies to this topic

[luxebo]

I noticed over time that through fighting we are just losing. We have good goals and good overall strats, but we don't have one thing, good solo fighting skills. There has to be a good reason that once in a while pug teams can pull off wins against premades and/or 12 mans by using Pretty Baby's, etc that are nearly taboo in MWO due to their stats and stuff. True it may be due to severe bad play on the premade side, but it's because we don't play well. Correct goals, but can never achieve them without basic knowledge of playing.

We all have our handbooks of what to do and what not to do, but I think here is a good basis of what should happen and how to counter em.

1) Mechs and where to hit em, plus who to target:
If there is a certain mech, we need to know when and how to hit them down. Here are some good tactics whenever we see a specific Clan mech:
Mist Lynx: Hit directly for CT. It's legs are very skinny, therefore it is best for CT. One good alpha will down it.
Kit Fox: Hit directly for CT. It's slow, but leaving it around will damage heavily.
Adder: Hit directly for CT. Once again it's slow, but it carries a bunch of weapons.
Ice Ferret: Hit directly for CT, same as Mist Lynx as they share roles in combat as speed scouts.
Nova: Hit arms first, then core it down. It's arms are wide.
Stormcrow: Hit legs and arms. Both are viable, but only aim CT as a last resort since these guys bounce with their hitboxes.
Mad Dog: Hit CT and ST asap. These centers are easily hit.
Hellbringer: Hit Left torso, or in other words, to the right. Always aim there, doesn't matter how or when since it has ECM and all it's weapons. Once LT is down you can basically ignore the Hellbringer.
Summoner: Hit CT or arms or legs. This guy should be easy enough to kill I think, as without arms it's pretty weak, and without a leg it will die.
Timber Wolf: Hit CT or ST if it has missile racks. Same as above, but needs way more focus on the Timber Wolves.
Gargoyle: Hit arms then CT. Arms contain almost all firepower.
Warhawk: Hit CT. Big, slow, and easy to core if focused.
Dire Wolf: Hit CT. Big, slow, and easy to core if focused.
In mech priority: Dire Wolf-->Timber Wolf-->Hellbringer-->Stormcrow. The rest of the mechs are literally less of a priority since these few mechs are huge annoyances. If there are a swarm of Ice Ferrets/Mist Lynxes, focus those first, or if there is heavy ECM then Kit Fox/Mist Lynx always is a good choice for a target. If LRMs are an issue, Warhawk then Mad Dog are your priorities. If SRMs/Lasers/Gauss are issues then it's most likely due to those four best mechs and you should focus on those guys first.
As a general rule, aim for the freaking legs. Clan mechs do have good hitboxes overall (except a few exceptions), so legs would be simpler to go after. But besides legs, the rest of them should be cut off like above, whether attacking or defending or counterattack/defend.

2) Bring usable mechs. There are some to suggest, but I will list the do nots:
XL assaults with LRMs (esp Atlas, Stalkers, King Crabs). Just don't.
STD engine lights. I've seen this commonly too.
Joking builds like more than one flamer (i.e. 9 Flamer hbk-4p), more than one tag except for niche purposes (i.e. detecting map hitboxes), and definitely don't carry more than one narc. There isn't a good reason to.
Builds like 4xAC2 cicadas or 2xAC20 cicadas. Ghost heat will kill you and you are wasting your tonnage and other's more usable mechs.
Underarmed or overarmed mechs. I don't want to see only small lasers on an Awesome. I also don't want to see 6xER PPCs on an Awesome.

On the other hand you CAN use the following:
Pretty baby's. Believe it or not, they actually work.
Locusts. But if you bring more than one you better have saved at least one King Crab or Atlas.
Dragons are usable but there are other mechs that may as well work better in 65 or 55 ton category. But Dragons are usable.
Commandoes are still usable, but I don't see a good reason besides a c-bill only player with COM-2D as ECM. Every other light has it's niche, even the locust as a filler for dual 100 tonners. I think it's good as long as you know what you are doing, like if you use 2xBanshee.
SDR-5V. Usable, but be good as a scout.

3) Map/mode tactics:
In attack mode we need to push as ONE. I've rarely if ever see my team do it. Almost never. To where is a concern, but in different maps:
Boreal is best at around E7. Slowly take em down.
Sulfurous is best at C2, as once gamma's gen is down you can easily kill Omega without fear. Plus spawncamping is a key.
Hellebore is best at C3 or E3 depending on which gate. You want them to cower in fear and attempt to take cover from their spawns.

In defend mode we need to learn to push outward if possible. If we can cover forward ground in maps like Boreal (esp Boreal), and possible in the two others (bit spread however to push outside), we can also spawncamp. In the point of spawncamping, it basically is a good strategy, no matter how bad the enemy will feel at this point. If the Clanners can do it, why can't we?

In counterattack/defend we need to learn to forwardly engage. Ignore Omega until later where we are winning on kills, then one or two lights can go kill it off quickly. This is a mode I've seen people struggle on like no other.

Some overall strategies to note and how to counter em:
Mist Lynx (or Storm/Timber) rush: You guys gotta aim. Without aim you lose, nuff said.
Attrition/spawn camp: All the team must return to the drop zone. If possible, guys that spawn need to get some damn cover or die. No matter if it's outside the map even.
Defenders escaping from their base: Once again you must regroup and take cover. One thing in this situation to get out of spawn camping is firstly when you die save a light so to take cover asap. Not guaranteed living but still. Also you must not die, ever. Especially on Hellebore and/or Sulfurous (mostly alpha or gamma/charlie lances on latter).

4) Overall tactics:
-Don't die, even if it meant that you lose a generator (except Omega, guard it if you must). Saving your life is always a good thing, even with no weapons. Don't chase targets unless you know you are gonna win, since chasing is risking your life. In fact, I would rather prefer guys that hide in corners than pretend they are rambo and charge like they have god mode.
-Focus targets. This never happens for whatever reason in CW, yet in pugging or group it always happens.
-Cripple enemies. Aim with zoom, and if you still struggle then use lasers or less hit or nothing weapons. Lasers, mgs, etc will help hopefully if you struggle to aim. Aiming is always key, and esp if you can aim and run at the same time that will save your life and kill others.
-To work well as a team you must work well at least yourself. No one in this world can accomplish anything without putting in their OWN effort. If someone fails to aim then you risk losing the entire match yourself. I'm not saying I am near aimbot level of aiming but try not to miss, it's never good to miss.
-Dodge shots and especially LRMs. All too often I've seen people getting lrmed to death cause they had no idea what cover is.
-Try to move to new angles. Continuous shooting at one spot will end your life in an instant.
-Try to not reveal yourself (attack mostly). If we were to push, if you are shooting you are revealing yourself. You'd rather the defenders push outward and hide in corners rather than trade shots.
-Use the IS advantages, 3xER PPC thunderbolts and a few other trade shot type mechs and brawling/scouting. Get in range without, once again, revealing yourself.
-Stay in others ECM.
-Plan waves ahead of time. All lights, put on command insignia and yell in caps that your group is going for lights. All assaults, do the same.
-Anything else that would do well in pug que or group que.

Good luck, and remember YOU need to do well in order to have a GOOD team. CW isn't all about teamwork, it's about your ability to do well, making the team overall do well.

[Divine Retribution]

Teamwork is still high on the priority list. The ability to aim and some situational awareness is good, but teamwork is still a priority.

Don't die isn't always a good thing, many players try to say alive to the detriment of the team. If you are on your first mech while the rest of the team is on their third or last mech, you are doing something wrong.

In the end, regardless of skill or ability to work as a team, the FRR simply needs warm bodies in CW. The clans have been ghost dropping in counter attacks to wipe out our territorial gains. If we had enough to outnumber and ghost drop on them, we would be retaking worlds much faster. Remember, he rest of the IS can't help us reclaim our worlds, they can only defend what we have. Meanwhile all the clans have been defending against us. Even Wolf has been opposing us rather than securing an attack corridor of their own.

All that said, yes it's still better to be a good pilot than not.

Edited by Divine Retribution, 09 February 2015 - 09:50 PM.

[Jonathan Paine]

Bit depressing to win every fight, yet lose the planet. But hey, the pay is excellent!

[luxebo]

Divine Retribution, on 09 February 2015 - 09:47 PM, said:

Teamwork is still high on the priority list. The ability to aim and some situational awareness is good, but teamwork is still a priority.

Don't die isn't always a good thing, many players try to say alive to the detriment of the team. If you are on your first mech while the rest of the team is on their third or last mech, you are doing something wrong.

In the end, regardless of skill or ability to work as a team, the FRR simply needs warm bodies in CW. The clans have been ghost dropping in counter attacks to wipe out our territorial gains. If we had enough to outnumber and ghost drop on them, we would be retaking worlds much faster. Remember, he rest of the IS can't help us reclaim our worlds, they can only defend what we have. Meanwhile all the clans have been defending against us. Even Wolf has been opposing us rather than securing an attack corridor of their own.

All that said, yes it's still better to be a good pilot than not.

I think staying alive for another fight is good to an extent. It overall depends on damage/assist/kill count. For example I was in my Shadow Hawk, and just in that mech I pulled off 1500 damage until I died. It was then I was able to stop the Clanners slightly in order to hold them down with the rest of my mechs. However I didn't win it due to no other leftover teammates. Other situations like the last stand in defending Omega is different as surviving may as well be naught if Omega dies.

Teamwork is of course good, but I think if no player is decent in gunnery/piloting/situational awareness then the team is still not gonna last.

We'll have to wait and see in overall FRR status, I just wrote on how we can as a whole become better.

[Divine Retribution]

The problem is once someone has lost all 4 mechs the game is 12v11. Then 12v10, then 12v9, and so on. If most of the team is on their last mech the player(s) with additional drops need to be the front line, whatever the loadout, so that the team isn't permanently down players. Even when the enemy team is down more players than you it is in the best interest of the team to prioritize number of players on the team over number of mechs on the team.

If someone is the only player left on the team and somehow still on their first mech, they can't accomplish anything 12v1 4 times over (at the extreme case). It happened once today even. We wiped 10 clanners,1 clanner still had 2 drops, the last clanner still had 3. We still had 12 players, so the enemy team wasted 5 mechs in 12v2 and 12v1 matchups. The further into the match, the more-pronounced the snowball effect. It's really just an expansion of the snowball effect that happens in normal games.

If someone runs off and dies 4 times, however, it's that player's fault.

Edited by Divine Retribution, 09 February 2015 - 11:03 PM.

[luxebo]

You do have a point on balancing numbers. Yeah, that is true to try to spread damage over everybody rather than die twice and have a team member doing lackluster effort and work.

It's all to the situation however, though it's best to stay alive in most situations. Some special situations you may want to tank a bit of damage for the rest.

[Wingbreaker]

Scoring more points wins games.

[luxebo]

Wingbreaker, on 09 February 2015 - 11:51 PM, said:

Scoring more points wins games.

Of course now we got clanners kicking the first faction to die out in the face. Thanks dood.

[Wingbreaker]

luxebo, on 09 February 2015 - 11:54 PM, said:

Of course now we got clanners kicking the first faction to die out in the face. Thanks dood.

Former SoR, bro. Besides which, we're the smallest of the clans. Thing we've learned is simple: Fight harder. Take pride in every planet and make the game worth it for yourself. Or, well... don't.

The comment was because it's a Madden moment. These things are obvious. However, if you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer.

[Tunes of war]

Wingbreaker, on 09 February 2015 - 11:59 PM, said:

Former SoR, bro. Besides which, we're the smallest of the clans. Thing we've learned is simple: Fight harder. Take pride in every planet and make the game worth it for yourself. Or, well... don't.

The comment was because it's a Madden moment. These things are obvious. However, if you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer.

you cannot compare jade falcon with the FRR ...

FRR is loosing ground to four clans with a small playerbase you are not able to hold or retake planets... MS should join the FRR but they dont have the honor to fight for the smaller parties...

[EldenLance]

I would also advise to try to put some terrain or other obstacles between you and all enemy mechs except the one you are shooting. This is quite vital when the fight becomes chaotic and/or when you are outnumbered. Allows to take em out one by one, rather then to catch shots from the whole team.

And another interesting thing worth mentioning is supression fire. A rapid succession of ac shells landing at the cockpit area thwarts target's ability to aim and damages its CT. Works particularly well against Daishi as it relies on ballistics heavily and the mech that excells in supression is the 1N. Jagermech works too, but it is more vulnurable due to lack of speed.(Enemy has to aim constantly only if you're moving.)

[Divine Retribution]

Also a note on trading fire. If you are popping out to fire but 3+ enemy mechs are firing back when you do, stop doing it unless the enemies have terrible aim. I see a lot of 9S pilots pop out to fire 3 ERPPCs, take 50+ damage in return, and then do it again and again until they die. Choose your exchanges and only exchange when you have the advantage or you need to engage for some other reason.

Edited by Divine Retribution, 10 February 2015 - 04:49 AM.

[Tom Sawyer]

Focus Fire

Get on TS or Raidcall or yell out the window. COMMUNICATE!

Listen and learn. I am a fair to middling pilot. But I can follow team commands. If you work together you can win.

Don't be afraid to die. Your 100 ton crab is no good hiding in the back. Unless your a god with gauss rifle. Even then by murder balling your fatless or crab will be the focal point of incoming fire. But while they are shooting you your team mates will be decimating them if you are in the ball.

Find a good team that plays the way you enjoy playing and drop together.

[DaemonWulfe]

Don't forget another critical strategy for staying alive, MOVE YOUR TORSO! I don't know how many times I've seen people stand flat footed and get cored CT from LRMs, ACs, and beam weapons. They'll even be using direct fire weapons, popping shots and staring at the target waiting for the cool down to finish.

Here's a clue on that one, pilots like me are going to spot you immediately, and as you can guess, I'll be calling out "Target (X) is next, core him quick." Same goes for charging, whether in an assault or light, keep that torso moving!

[luxebo]

Wingbreaker, on 09 February 2015 - 11:59 PM, said:

Former SoR, bro. Besides which, we're the smallest of the clans. Thing we've learned is simple: Fight harder. Take pride in every planet and make the game worth it for yourself. Or, well... don't.

The comment was because it's a Madden moment. These things are obvious. However, if you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer.

I think you guys do have Lords + Kcom + JFP on your side; that is a lot of people on your side, and they fight competitive too. Clan Wolf seems to be the one struggling the most, and even Ghost Bear has more trouble than you or Smoke Jaguar.

Agreed to all the comments below, as those are true and should be taken heed to along with the other tokens of advice.

[Tarogato]

Methinks this idea needs resurrected: http://mwomercs.com/...re-frr-faction/

Now that all of us have more experience in CW, we can work on drills that would be more specifically applicable to CW matches. The Isengrim do weekly PPC-sniping sessions to promote trade awareness, effective use of cover, and shot-leading. The whole KungsArmé could benefit from these kinds of drills as well as focus fire brawling drills, deathballing exercises, and light mech combat.

[Wingbreaker]

luxebo, on 10 February 2015 - 04:56 PM, said:

I think you guys do have Lords + Kcom + JFP on your side; that is a lot of people on your side, and they fight competitive too. Clan Wolf seems to be the one struggling the most, and even Ghost Bear has more trouble than you or Smoke Jaguar.

Agreed to all the comments below, as those are true and should be taken heed to along with the other tokens of advice.

Lords is rebuilding (but they're still lords, and a small group can carry pugs to victory), Kcom and JFP usually have a twelve man per, and RJF are our daytime russian crew, and they usually run a 12 man or so.

That's it, though. We're pretty damn tiny.

Oh! I forgot BSMC. Sorry guys. D:

Edited by Wingbreaker, 10 February 2015 - 11:19 PM.

[Richard Warts]

Wingbreaker, on 10 February 2015 - 10:54 PM, said:

Lords is rebuilding (but they're still lords, and a small group can carry pugs to victory), Kcom and JFP usually have a twelve man per, and RJF are our daytime russian crew, and they usually run a 12 man or so.

That's it, though. We're pretty damn tiny.

That is small. You could win every game and still lose a planet simply by being out-dropped by dozens of pugs.

[luxebo]

Wingbreaker, on 10 February 2015 - 10:54 PM, said:

Lords is rebuilding (but they're still lords, and a small group can carry pugs to victory), Kcom and JFP usually have a twelve man per, and RJF are our daytime russian crew, and they usually run a 12 man or so.
That's it, though. We're pretty damn tiny.

I still hold the verdict that you guys are not really that bad off. Maybe small but considering your pugs can win matches no problem and I see Kcom and JFP every time I drop against you CJF, you guys aren't doing terrible at all. At the same time, us at the FRR are about to lose almost all our defending planets. You guys are still pushing on Steiner no problem.

[Wingbreaker]

Tabu 73, on 10 February 2015 - 10:57 PM, said:

That is small. You could win every game and still lose a planet simply by being out-dropped by dozens of pugs.

That is often the case.