32 replies to this topic

[GreyGhost]

So, I was defending on counter attack, (CSJ) in a pug group against a 4man with pug support.

I ran into a weird tactic, and we lost the match. I think we might have won, had we not been a pug, but you know what that's like. Maybe everyone except me has seen this tactic, but I was surprised enough to come over to the forums and post about it.

Anyway, the Kuritas came on with the usual wave of ER-PPC thunderbolts by the boatload, with assorted other mechs in support.

They were attacking Alpha gate on the Sulfur map. We bunkered down to wait for them to push, and as usual one guy stuck his head out and got it shot off, so they were up a kill.

One kill eh? No biggy. They still have to come in and take omega, right? Wrong!

Without coming in the gate, they stood on the hill outside of alpha, and sniped the MFB omega objective........FROM OUTSIDE THE GATE! .

As you know, a group of T-bolts can PPC spam until the end of time, and trying to push out the gate against a distant line of them is a risky proposition at best. We tried, and got shot down fast. (Again, we were a pug, so no serious command and control.) Next, we went out beta gate, and tried to get them into a two way fight, which worked better, but being up on kills from the start, they were able to go super defensive.

Now, I'm sure this tactic can be countered, and it did take them awhile to take down omega at that extended range. I'm not really too upset over a single loss, but the tactic DID surprise me enough I decided to come over here and post about it.

Here's a few screenshots of the match.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Yet you still have to kill your opponents... so what's the problem here? The counter attack doesn't just end when omega goes down you know.

[GreyGhost]

You only have to kill one, and not die. This makes it possible to win purely with sniping. Is that a 'problem'? It's certainly something to be watching for, if nothing else.

[AlmightyAeng]

Flash Frame, on 09 February 2015 - 07:09 AM, said:

Yet you still have to kill your opponents... so what's the problem here? The counter attack doesn't just end when omega goes down you know.

The win conditions allow for either "Kill everyone and omega" or "Kill omega and have MORE kills when the timer runs out."

He's saying that they can get a kill superiority, take omega, and then just sit back and wait for the defenders to come to them.

[HARDKOR]

You really just had a 30 min 1 kill game? Ouch.

[GreyGhost]

No, that's not where the match ended! But had we not pushed out, it would have ended 1-0, which would have been enough for the dragons, who showed no motivation to push. I don't recall the final score, but it was their favor.

[Ghogiel]

It is what it is. You can do the same on boreal fyi.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Ghost Badger, on 09 February 2015 - 07:14 AM, said:

The win conditions allow for either "Kill everyone and omega" or "Kill omega and have MORE kills when the timer runs out."

He's saying that they can get a kill superiority, take omega, and then just sit back and wait for the defenders to come to them.

And...this is a problem how?

I'm literally, not seeing the problem here. It's just part of the gamemode.

[Screech]

Best way to lose a counter attack is to have your teammates going after Omega while there are enemies still to kill.

[Ghogiel]

Screech, on 09 February 2015 - 08:07 AM, said:

Best way to lose a counter attack is to have your teammates going after Omega while there are enemies still to kill.

If you are running in suciding mechs to kill it when the score is still 0-0 like on regular attack, you doing it wrong.


But when you can just kill it for free with zero risk you might as well take it.

[Dawnstealer]

Flash Frame, on 09 February 2015 - 07:09 AM, said:

Yet you still have to kill your opponents... so what's the problem here? The counter attack doesn't just end when omega goes down you know.

This. Also, you DO have a range advantage, even against ERPPC'd Tbolts. I cringe a little giving tactical advice, but most people do not have more than one 9S in their drop deck (maybe the merc and higher-end units, but your average player does not). Once you kill one, that's one less you have to face.

Kill 5-8? Suddenly the 9S "spam" isn't a problem.

For that matter, I get a lot more kills with my CDA 3M than my Tbolt, although the Bolt does do a better job of keeping enemy heads down.

First thing I say to my team when on defense on counterattack is "Focus on kills - don't worry about Omega."

Edited by Dawnstealer, 09 February 2015 - 08:12 AM.

[Screech]

Ghogiel, on 09 February 2015 - 08:10 AM, said:

But when you can just kill it for free with zero risk you might as well take it.

Yeah I have had an occasion where defenders sally forth from base and enemy team enter un-challenged. At that point it is fine to get Omega since you are walking past it. My comments were more reserved when you have 10 of your group trying to hold alpha gate C2 and you see the other 2 respawn and head to gamma to get Omega.(Rift map) It really destroys your chances of success and happens way more then it should.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Either way, you have to drop Omega.

Thus one of the strategy's for the counter attackers is to blow past, drop omega, then mop up.

WHICH IS TOTALLY VALID.

so again... what is the problem with this? The whole idea of Counter Attack was to offer a more combat focused style of gamemode, which Counter Attack 100% delivers on....

[Ghogiel]

Screech, on 09 February 2015 - 08:17 AM, said:

Yeah I have had an occasion where defenders sally forth from base and enemy team enter un-challenged. At that point it is fine to get Omega since you are walking past it. My comments were more reserved when you have 10 of your group trying to hold alpha gate C2 and you see the other 2 respawn and head to gamma to get Omega.(Rift map) It really destroys your chances of success and happens way more then it should.

Well they doing it wrong as the omega can be out of the way well before you even start entering the base on rift as demonstarted in the OPs pics. So before you even get to camp C2 and farm the spawns it can be downed.

[Spheroid]

I love counter attack, finally skirmish with respawns. Exactly what I wanted.

[Tweaks]

I think the only issue here is that the base design is such that you can snipe the omega without entering the base's perimeter. I don't think it was intended that way.

There has to be a change so that the only way to take out that mobile field base is to enter the base. I mean, which engineer would place such an important base asset where it can just be sniped off from a distance? If anything, it should be shielded by walls or even dug down in the ground a little so it can't be shot with direct fire weapons from a distance, and especially not from outside the base's gate.

The same goes for the orbital cannon's generator in the attack or defense modes by the way. Who's the stupid engineer who decided "hey, let's place the generator of our cannon above ground and really exposed so a simple orbital strike from an orbiting dropship can take it out!". If the only way to take this thing is is supposed to be from the ground, then it should be protected more than that and you should have to really get in there to destroy it.

Otherwise the game mode's mechanic is fair.

Edited by Tweaks, 09 February 2015 - 01:01 PM.

[Ax2Grind]

This only underscores that the mission as the defenders is to keep ahead on the kills. Just like skirmish...which is what people asked for.

[Clownwarlord]

I have seen people destroying generators from the gates at Boreal while I was defending, but I have yet to see Omega getting hit in such a way.

This only points out that PGI needs to work on their map designs a little more. Something that they also might want to look into is the spawn camping that you see 12 mans doing to the pug groups.

[Tasker]

You got outplayed.

[HlynkaCG]

Ghost Badger, on 09 February 2015 - 07:14 AM, said:

The win conditions allow for either "Kill everyone and omega" or "Kill omega and have MORE kills when the timer runs out."

He's saying that they can get a kill superiority, take omega, and then just sit back and wait for the defenders to come to them.

Yes. and?