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Replace Ghost Heat With Pilot Health Mechanics


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#1 orcrist86

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 08:09 PM

FYI: Wall of text

One of the key mechanics that give people heart burn in MWO is Ghost Heat. The system is not entirely transparent and is seemingly arbitrary. This of course in untrue, as GH has been specifically tuned to engender certain play styles, but most importantly to eliminate certain play mechanics. Heat simulation has been a core mechanic of Mechwarrior and the Battletech franchise since its inception. Oddly enough the simulation we know as mechwarrior is the title of the role playing game, and battletech is the simulation that has been turned into an RPG. To help further the MW franchise and to remove the need for ghost heat I am proposing the addition of a mechanic that has been missing from mechwarrior since its inception, but played a key role in the TT game. Without this particular mechanic much of what occurs in a battlemech is moot, and the inclusion of this “core rule” will do much to alleviate the success of Direstars, and overheat based glass cannons.

The Pilot Damage System

The Mechwarrior series has long simulated the mech, but has never actually simulated the pilot as is seen in the tabletop game. Bringing this mechanic into MWO would take it one step further than all previous title entries and result in a new and interesting way to balance the game.

The original system
Posted Image
In the tabletop game pilots were given 6 health points for a battle. These represented how injured a pilot was, and how difficult it was for them to stay conscious. Hits to the head of a mech, ammo explosions, physical attacks and heat all bore the chance to damage the pilot and cause a blackout or death. Considering the nature of convergence and MWO being the game it is this system will not work and must be modified to fill a role as a balancing agent and new level of simulation.

Proposed System

Effects
MWO already simulates certain pilot related effects including screen shake, but more will be needed. Destructible cockpits that reflect damage from head hits should be included. Ammo explosions should cause showers of sparks and electrocute the pilot as per lore. The destruction of a gauss weapon should cause intense and near fatal feedback to the neurohelmet. A long fall causes bruises and jarring damage. Heat is the big issue though. The effects should range from hearing the pilot hiss and grunt in discomfort to blurred vision, steam in the cockpit; and should the pilot overheat in an epic way, screams as he/she is baked alive in their coolant vest. Death is the ultimate penalty, and serves as one of many risks for piloting a mech beyond its limits.

Mechanics

There are two mechanics that can simulate the pilot, both with different drawbacks and advantages. On is a defined health system that bears similarity to the HALO:CE and the battery mechanic in Deus Ex:HR. The second is a parallel/ concurrent heat and health system

Mechanic One: parallel/ concurrent heat system

This system has the advantage of being fairly easy to understand and implement. A second vertical bar is added to the hud reflecting both the condition of the pilot and cockpit heat. Initial thoughts are that the bar should be green and turn to red or black as the pilot becomes wounded. Heat is removed from the cockpit as if the cockpit at a rate of a 10 single heat sink build + 10% of additional heat sinks.

Examples:
mech with 15 single heat sinks: the cockpit cools as if it had (10+.5) 10.5 single heat sinks.
mech with 17 double heat sinks: the cockpit cools as if it had (10+1.4) 11.4 single heat sinks

The pilot benefits from more heat sinks, but not excessively and single heat sink builds are still playable from a pilot perspective. As weapons are fired the same heat is applied to the cockpit, but due to the nature of the dissipation rate it goes away slower.

Heat Penalty:

50% - pilot audible strains
75% - steam in cockpit
95% - blurred vision, pilot takes damage
100% or greater - audible signs of distress and rapid deterioration of pilot health until temps cool, if cockpit temp does not return to below 100% within 60 seconds the pilot is killed. (Pilot may eject to avoid suicide penalty)

if the mech overheats the pilot take mild damage

If a mech’s pilot stays in the 90% range or above the color of the bar starts to fade.

Events that do damage:

Damage to mech head hurts pilot
Ammo explosions damage pilot
Gauss rifle loss damages pilot
uncontrolled fall damages pilot
Flamer usage reduces mech heat dissipation as per weapon, but reduces pilot dissipation by half

Pilot Damage penalties:

100% health - none
80% health - occasional groan
50% health - slight reticle shake
30% health - wavering vision (head bob)
10% health - diminishing vision (red or black outs threaten at every turn of the mech or acceleration)

Pilot death should be rare, but if you fire 4 erppc’s, the pilot will cook in his own juices. The parallel system may be modified and added directly on to the existing heat system for simplification. if the system is added concurrent then damage via gauss detonation should be extreme, resulting a severely wounded pilot, say 50-60% damage.


Mechanic Two: defined health

This system gives each pilot a 5 HP represented by small filled bars. As a mechs heat gets higher the first bar starts to empty at a varying rate. If a bar is emptied then it may not be filled. If the heat of a mech falls below a specific level the bar regenerates until the current bar is filled. When all 5 bars are empty the pilot is knocked unconscious for 15 seconds(in game a mech with an unconscious pilot may power down or continue moving in one direction, or even walk in circles till the pilot is again conscious). If the mech overheats and the 5th bar empties the pilot dies (pilot may eject within a small window to avoid death).

Heat penalty:

50% - pilot audible strains - bar starts to empty at rate of 1.0 bar per 90sec
75% - steam in cockpit - bar starts to empty at rate of 1.0 bar per 60sec
95% - blurred vision, pilot takes damage- bar starts to empty at rate of 1.0 bar per 40sec
100% or greater - audible signs of distress, yelling, screaming. If the mech overheats the pilot takes damage until the heat level falls below 50%.

Events that do damage:

Damage to mech head hurts pilot - .5 bars
Ammo explosions damage pilot - .75 bars
Gauss rifle loss damages pilot - 1 bar
uncontrolled fall damages pilot - .5 bars
Flamer usage reduces mech heat dissipation and adds heat as per stats

Pilot Damage penalties:
100% health - none
80% health - occasional groan
40% health - slight reticle shake
20% health - swimming vision

Pilot death should still be rare, but the system is a little more forgiving in my mind and a more direct port of the original TT rules.

Conclusion:

The pilot mechanic is intended to add the already diverse risk/reward nature of Mechwarrior games by adding a key subsystem missing from the tabletop experience. Adding a pilot reduces heat heavy builds and encourages more diverse loadouts by creating serious risk around combat beyond mech damage. Energy heavy builds are forced to fight at range, and over time, reducing laser vomit. Low heat builds that include gauss rifles must weigh neurohelmet feedback and electrocution into their plans, reducing boating. Please note that my penalties are likely too strict and all the numbers and effects would need to be adjusted.

Secondary effects of adding a Pilot:

PGI can create a pilot tab that serves as the hub for all XP unlocks giving it more context in terms of training and use.
The pilot could and should be modeled, players should be given control over a small variety of variables including:
Skin Tone
Sex
Hair Color
Hair style
Uniform Color (primary, secondary, tertiary)
Uniform Type
Neurohelmet type
Equipment (think backpacks, swords, small arms, etc.)

PGI could provide a few a basic skins, and items, the rest would be CW unlocks or mini purchases from the store (nothing higher than 75 MC)

The players changes would be reflected on the in game avatar… what little we see.

Taken as a whole this would help tie together not only game mechanics, but certain missing aesthetics as well. We often complain that MWO is too MOBA, not enough MMO. This change can be seen as a start down that path, tying MMO, MOBA, RPG, and SIM elements together.

Please provide your thoughts. I look forward to the response, please keep in mind this is an attempt to remove a mechanic that is onerous for its lack of semblance to canon with one that is more so.

PS my own preference is the defined health system.

Edited by orcrist86, 11 February 2015 - 09:25 PM.


#2 VinJade

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 07:13 AM

what an ugly mech sheet makes me glad that I still use the old ones...
um anyways...
I can see the pilot effect would force many who use energy weapons mainly be affected by this while those who run cool using those annoying light ACs while those who pack a lot of Missiles tend to run mild in the heat scale would be effected a little.

as to the death of a pilot I don't like that at all, remember WE are the pilots and if they die shouldn't we be forced to start over from scratch like in actual TT?

#3 orcrist86

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 12:51 PM

It is just a concept. Death may not be the answer... Maybe just unconsciousness. Low heat builds still suffer because the pilot heart threshold is pretty low. A gays only build might stay frosty, but runs the risk of damaging pilot when the rifle gets popped. Same with lrms or and ammo weapon. One kind of risk gets traded for another.

#4 Alias72

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 01:16 PM

or just auto eject. Any situation that would result in a pilot death results in him/her punching it without your permission.

#5 orcrist86

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 03:00 PM

@alias72

That to seems like a valid end state. In some ways this is the kind of element that translates as hardcore. It could help, but it could make things really difficult. Did a particular mechanic make more sense to you?

#6 VinJade

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 08:30 PM

Alias has a few good ideas. the auto eject is the best one though.
after all can you imagine the uproar from the founders and others who put RLCash into the game and lose everything if their pilot died?

Don't get me wrong I do like the rest of your ideas.
also maybe make it where if a pilot takes too much heat or hard enough blow to the head they are knocked out cold for a set number of seconds(or longer) leaving them just standing there longer than waiting for heat build up to dissipate.

Edited by VinJade, 11 February 2015 - 08:38 PM.


#7 orcrist86

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 09:24 PM

The knock out idea is seen in mechanic 2, and under no circumstance would anyone lose their mechs and whatnot, this isn't steel battalion. The idea is primarily to add a new layer of risk to both heat and poor piloting. Give an incentive not to drop off the edge of a cliff to score a kill, or maybe to debate on adding a second gauss because the minute you lose both its a 50/50 chance the mech may last longer than the pilot.

Also, the idea is to provide a venue for PGI to sell more trinkets at a lower price, and to take advantage of steam works for the player community in a way that doesn't affect game play; allowing use to design our own neurohelmets, patches and things for sale via steam. Vlave, and PGI get a cut, and the community draws hat collecting crowd.

I appreciate the feedback y'all. Please keep it coming.

Edited by orcrist86, 11 February 2015 - 09:27 PM.


#8 Baron Cunedda Kell

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 07:54 AM

Interesting Option... Wonder what it would do to MechWarrior Online or even if PGI even reads these threads...tbh.

#9 Nightmare1

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 12:51 PM

Interesting concepts overall, but my biggest takeaway was this:

"Gauss Feedback" = nerf.

Please don't plug another nerf into that dying weapon!

#10 orcrist86

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 02:07 PM

View PostNightmare1, on 12 February 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:

Interesting concepts overall, but my biggest takeaway was this:

"Gauss Feedback" = nerf.

Please don't plug another nerf into that dying weapon!


The alternative is to treat it the same as an ammo explosion and let Russ and paul restrict the number that can be for at once, which seems arbitrary. Of course the ammo explosion penalty could be increased as a whole to compensate

#11 VinJade

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 04:15 PM

pilot damage by to many head shots, GR explosion, ammo explosions, over heating too much, falls, ect should be knocked out for the rest of the game and making the mech fall to the ground since the pilot isn't able to keep it up right would be a good thing.

this would force players to discipline themselves and would also keep PPC/Laser boaters in line and those that use ACs and other ammo based weapons to keep an eye on their heat and better aware of ammo as regardless if protected with CASE that won't stop neural feed back from ammunition/GR explosions.

Edited by VinJade, 12 February 2015 - 05:08 PM.


#12 orcrist86

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 08:26 PM

View PostVinJade, on 12 February 2015 - 04:15 PM, said:

pilot damage by to many head shots, GR explosion, ammo explosions, over heating too much, falls, ect should be knocked out for the rest of the game and making the mech fall to the ground since the pilot isn't able to keep it up right would be a good thing.

this would force players to discipline themselves and would also keep PPC/Laser boaters in line and those that use ACs and other ammo based weapons to keep an eye on their heat and better aware of ammo as regardless if protected with CASE that won't stop neural feed back from ammunition/GR explosions.

Your absolutely right that case would now serve a real function. Have it reduce or negate the damage maybe as a bonus. A lot of the rules in battletech including heat revolved around keeping your pilot alive, it's why I think that a health mechanic might be a good idea at some point.





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