39 replies to this topic

[Soy]

Awesomes are ******* awesome!

[Alistair Winter]

I'd like to see a "No minimum range" quirk for the AWS-8Q.

[Joseph Mallan]

Tarogato, on 11 February 2015 - 06:27 PM, said:

---

TDR-9S

50% ER PPC Heat Generation (25% to general energy)
25% ER PPC Cooldown (12.5% to general energy)
15% ER PPC Velocity
15% Energy Duration

AWS-9M

25% ER PPC Heat Generation (12.5% to general energy)
15% ER PPC Cooldown (15% to general energy)
25% ER PPC Velocity
25% ER PPC Range (12.5% to general energy)
15% Laser Duration

---

Yes. these perks should be reversed. The Awesome is THE Inner Sphere PPC boat, not the Thunderbolt. The Tbolt is a Mixed bag Mech filling many roles.

[Roadbuster]

Shaio, on 11 February 2015 - 04:50 PM, said:

This topic is about the Awesome and not the Thunderbolt as PGI has already stated the the TDR is working as intended. As much as I would love to see the quirks swapped between the TDR-9S and the AWS-9M it is not likely to happen.

The TDR is working as intended?!
Ever other stock PPC mech needs some serious buffs then, not just the Awesome.

Awesome should at least get equal PPC/ER-PPC heat reduction.
Then there's the difference in hardpoint location and torso size.
The Awesome torso, aka barn door, is a damage magnet, and to shoot it has to expose alot more than the Thunderbolt.
I think a torso twist speed and angle buff would help a bit to make up for that difference.
A massive boost to PPC/ER-PPC velocity would further improve the role of a 2nd/3rd line fire support mech.
And the normal PPC should not have a minimum range on the Awesome.


But to be honest, I really hope they tune down the Thunderbolt quirks.

[MeiSooHaityu]

The Thunderbolt was probably quirked the way it was to be a long range Heavy for the IS to help counteract the longer weapon ranges of the Clan in CW...I'm guessing.

Why the Thunderbolt was nominated to be this mech instead of lore based IS mechs like say the K2 is beyond me. My guess is because the person who makes these decisions at PGI likes or pilots Thunderbolts and hates Catapults.

[Johnny Z]

MeiSooHaityu, on 12 February 2015 - 03:05 AM, said:

The Thunderbolt was probably quirked the way it was to be a long range Heavy for the IS to help counteract the longer weapon ranges of the Clan in CW...I'm guessing.

Why the Thunderbolt was nominated to be this mech instead of lore based IS mechs like say the K2 is beyond me. My guess is because the person who makes these decisions at PGI likes or pilots Thunderbolts and hates Catapults.

Who ever it is hates Orion's more.

[Lily from animove]

Lyoto Machida, on 12 February 2015 - 02:04 AM, said:

His breasts and belly look like a derp face.

[Kiiyor]

Ultimatum X, on 11 February 2015 - 09:17 PM, said:

This is why taking it away from the 9S and giving it to the Awesome only satisfies players who think TT should define everything or this game.


It would be a nerf to the IS faction as a whole to do take quirks away from the 9S.




Game balance trumps snowflake fluff. You want to give similar quirks to the 9M and take it's velocity quirks down? Go for it.

Taking it away from the 9S would be extremely bad for CW balance between factions.

I absolutely concur. I think the 9S is fine. Really. I've faced them with both Sphere and Clan steel, and have piloted them, and I think they are fine. Powerful at range, not so much at everything else.

Mayhap the legions of MadCat and StormCrow pilots slaughtering their way across the Inner Sphere aren't used to meeting any mech that outdoes them at... well, anything.

It just so happens that if you get a large number of 9S'es together, you are a force to be reckoned with. It also just so happens that if you get a large number of MadCats and StormCrows together you conquer your way to Terra.

If I sounded like I wanted the quirks switcherooed, that wasn't my intention. I was merely pointing out how utterly terrible I think the Awesome is (despite it being my favourite mech), and how much worse it is with it's primary intended weapon system than a mech that isn't an iconic PPC boat.

If organized Clan teams are having so much trouble fighting 9S heavy teams, why is the FRR on it's knees? Why have the Clans carved a swathe through every other territory? Why was it that temporary bickering between the Clans offered the 'Sphere it's only real respite so far?

Clanners complaining about the 9S being overbuffed are like Panzer crews in WW2 complaining that enemy solders are OP because they get jammed in their tank tracks.

I'm tired.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Johnny Z, on 12 February 2015 - 03:44 AM, said:

Who ever it is hates Orion's more.

After everything the Catapult has been through (bad geometry, torso twist nerfs, poor quirks, bad hitboxes, etc...), I don't think the hate Orion's WORSE. They may still really hate Orion's though .

[Duke Nedo]

Shaio, on 11 February 2015 - 08:17 PM, said:

This topic is about the Awesome and not the Thunderbolt as PGI has already stated the the TDR is working as intended. As much as I would love to see the quirks swapped between the TDR-9S and the AWS-9M it is not likely to happen.

I hear what you're saying, but honestly, it makes more sense to nerf one variant a little, that to buff hundreds of other variants to the same level. If the TDR-9S would be put back to the initial 25% reduced heat that it had it would still be a good mech. It would work perfectly fine to run 2x ERPPC in the two high mounts with these quirks, I tried it while it was 25% and can confirm that it was in a pretty good place. You could run 2x ERPPC+gauss+XL, or 2xERPPC+supportweaps+STD.

I also think that an agility nerf to the timberwolf would be in order, as well as minor nerfs on the SCR, FS9-S and possibly STK-4N.

Afaic, tweaking these 4 mechs would set a much better baseline for where balance should be at.

Then quite a few variants of these chassi would need minor buffs to get to that level: BLR, VTR, HGN, AS7, AWS, QKD, DRG (non 1N), CPLT, CTF, ON1, TBT, KTO, COM.

Edit: I didn't mention the badish clan mechs, but ofcourse quite a few would need quirks of their own.

Anyways, I play both clan and is mechs and imo clans are still significantly better mechs overall, but I have to be honest and say that among the IS mechs, the TDR-9S is head above the rest. It just is... and if we'd put the baseline where the "rest" of the "good" IS mechs are (like Stalker level), we'd need to slightly tone down SCR and TBR too.

Edited by Duke Nedo, 12 February 2015 - 06:41 AM.

[Ultimax]

MauttyKoray, on 11 February 2015 - 10:19 PM, said:

Because a weapon that can be shot, and then duck out of fire with...is equal in exchanged to a weapon that must be held on target for the duration

At extended ranges, yes.

Hitting with a 1300m/s projectile at 800m is much harder than hitting with hitscan.

Even if you only get some damage on target, and then dodge the return PPC fire, you are winning the exchange.


At mid-range vs. laser vomit builds, it's a 30 point alpha vs. a 40 to 55 point alpha.

It's dangerous for both of those mechs at that point.


One has pinpoint and is front loaded, the other is pinpoint over a burn time but with much higher damage potential.

A firing line of either at 500m, is very dangerous for both sides and will likely be decided by pilot skill, the luck of the draw on terrain and whoever is in the better weapons platform (speed, manueverability, hardpoint location and hitbox geometry).



When my unit went GB for a few weeks, I found countersniping in my SCR vs. TDRs was relatively easy.

I could constantly get at least some damage on target while dodging return PPC fire consistently.

Alistair Winter, on 12 February 2015 - 02:36 AM, said:

I'd like to see a "No minimum range" quirk for the AWS-8Q.

That sounds fair.

Does that leave enough space for the AWS-9M?

Normally the value of the ER PPC (9M quirks) are both no min range, and sniping power and when your ER PPCs are mounted in your nipples, sniping really isn't in the cards.

Kiiyor, on 12 February 2015 - 05:26 AM, said:

Clanners complaining about the 9S being overbuffed are like Panzer crews in WW2 complaining that enemy solders are OP because they get jammed in their tank tracks.

I'm tired.

You might be tired, but at your sense of humor still excels.

[Sable]

Kiiyor, on 12 February 2015 - 05:26 AM, said:

Mayhap the legions of MadCat and StormCrow pilots slaughtering their way across the Inner Sphere aren't used to meeting any mech that outdoes them at... well, anything.

If organized Clan teams are having so much trouble fighting 9S heavy teams, why is the FRR on it's knees? Why have the Clans carved a swathe through every other territory? Why was it that temporary bickering between the Clans offered the 'Sphere it's only real respite so far?

Clanners complaining about the 9S being overbuffed are like Panzer crews in WW2 complaining that enemy solders are OP because they get jammed in their tank tracks.

I haven't mentioned clans at all in my posts for this thread. I haven't come at this from a clan vs IS perspective. I've fought them from as both clan and IS. There are ways to deal with them and strategies to use but that doesn't change the fact that they are out of balance.

I talk about this from the perspective of seeing my own unit win over and over and over again with almost no effort because of how strong the 9S is. When 90% of our games are stomps of 48 to less than 12 because the other team can't even kill our first wave of 9S's there is a problem.

There were people that defended the poptart meta and said there wasn't a problem when THERE WAS because everyone single person was doing it. Sure there were ways to fight them but that didn't mean there wasn't a problem.

[Mavairo]

9S needs a quirk nerf.
9M and 8Q Awesomes need that level of quirkage.

People concerned bout it "ruining CW!" are full of it. People would simply start using AWSes more.
And they can always bring other mechs in line with the timber god in different ways. Buffing the 5S TDR for example.

People would also start fielding the 5SS again too with a 9S change.

[Sable]

Mavairo, on 12 February 2015 - 10:48 AM, said:

9S needs a quirk nerf.
9M and 8Q Awesomes need that level of quirkage.

People concerned bout it "ruining CW!" are full of it. People would simply start using AWSes more.
And they can always bring other mechs in line with the timber god in different ways. Buffing the 5S TDR for example.

People would also start fielding the 5SS again too with a 9S change.

I would be completely ok with this as the awesome is supposed to be the PPC platform for the inner sphere. And the awesome having to take an XL to maximize it's efficiency gives it a balancing point. Even if they buffed the awesome's armor and internals the fact that it would actually have a weakness would go a long way for balance sake.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Anyone in this thread who thinks the 9M is fine has never piloted one.

2ERPPCs is too hot for a 9M, let alone 3.
It needs buffs.

[Tezcatli]

Awesomes should get armor quirks because of how stupid fat it is. And the best velocity quirks for ER/PPC to truly distinguish it.

[Almond Brown]

MauttyKoray, on 11 February 2015 - 09:37 PM, said:

stuff

current bloated game mechanics making boating large amounts of firepower the best thing to do.

Interesting. In a game where killing the enemy as fast and efficiently as possible is the end goal, how would NOT boating large amounts of firepower ever be the BEST thing to do?

What is required, and totally a tough task for PGI, would be make MWO have a REAL need for every Mech to carry as many of the available Electronic Packages available as possible, thus consuming some of the weight that currently goes into all that Dakka and Wubbing firepower that is so prevalent.

But surely a discussion for another thread.

Edited by Almond Brown, 12 February 2015 - 11:41 AM.

[HammerMaster]

The 9S is set up for an excellent mix build piece. The current quirks I run it with 2 ppcs and 4 mlas. Its crazy. The 3 ppcs rigs are OUT OF CONTROL. Just as bad in CW with all 9S drops as bad as the all HBR drops. Swap quirks with the awesome. It baffles me that any other mech can out PPC a PPC AWESOME!

[Slimspadey101]

I do agree that the Awesome would seemly be the better PPC boat. Unfortunately, in a video game the low hardpoints just don't allow for that to be effective. Assuming the developers agree and quirked the 9M accordingly; I have begun to take a different perspective.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2dcfe07390b1e2a

With the general energy quirks and head+torso mounted energy hardpoints the Awesome has the ability to zombie quite well. I would like to see them add some missile quirks. Maybe significant streak cooldown reduction.

[MauttyKoray]

1. The majority of proponents for the 9S are IS players.

2. The majority of opponents against the 9S are Clan players.

3. A small minority actually give a **** that the 9S made the AWS (ER)PPC variants useless.

4. A small minority can see that the 9S being 'balanced correctly to counteract the Clans' just means that there are Clan mechs that are not balanced, and that the 9S is therefore not balanced.

The 9S, while it should not be shunned from ERPPCs, should be balanced to fill the role with 2 ERPPCs in mind, not 3 like it currently does. You say that the 9S is balanced, yet how is it balanced that a mech with better profile/hitboxes, speed, and high mounted advantageous hardpoints should also get firepower that rivals, no I take that back, EXCEEDS the ability of the Awesome? In balance the Awesome is given a large amount of firepower through (ER)PPCs which is has to trade off for less speed, bigger hitboxes/profile, and low mounted hardpoints requiring it to expose itself greatly to make use of them?

AWS
-low/disadvantageous hardpoints
-lower speed
-big, easy target

TDR
-High/advantageous hardpoints
-higher speed
-better profile/hitboxes

To top it off, the TDR can use 3 ERPPCs about the same or slightly better than an AWS can use 3 STANDARD PPCs... So realistically it actually has MORE firepower for nearly no trade off but less armor, which is hardly a trade off since the AWS has less speed and massive torso hitboxes that are easy to hit.

So please keep telling yourself the TDR is fine the way it is, and its balanced. Those of us not deluded and understand what the definition of 'balance' is will keep advocating for the 9S to be balanced correctly.