26 replies to this topic

[Taemien]

The thing that would kill some Inner Sphere Omni's is the heatsink type. The other stuff wouldn't mean so much to be honest. The Men-Shen is pretty quick for a medium, and the Owens already goes the speed of IS lights, right out of the box. The Heavy and Assault IS omnis go at the standard 3/5 and 4/6 movement that we normally see IS mechs go at those weights.

In all honesty, when we're talking IS Omni's we're thinking of the Owens, Strider, Avatar, and Sunder. Other mechs are just way too far down the line to worry about right now. Those 4 mechs aren't terrible and only the Strider would be hurting (due to speed), and maybe the Sunder (due to XL).

But as I said, the biggest thing is Heatsink type. If they change that one restriction, then the IS omni's will be fine. And it wouldn't change Clan Omni rules (who the hell is going to change a Madcat's heatsink type to Single?) very much.

Quirks and hardpoints will keep Clan BattleMechs in line. I still think their OmniMechs will be their primary mechs. Another thing of note is that Clan BattleMechs do not have variants until the 3060s. So these mechs cannot be elited out. I mean think about it, what could be done with the Hunchback II-C or Supernova that would make them OP compared to their stock configuration that couldn't already be done with an Omni of the same weight class?

At this point Clan BattleMechs wouldn't be that bad and would really only be owned and used by enthusiasts. Kind of like the Urbanmech.

kapusta11, on 12 February 2015 - 05:00 AM, said:

According to TT construction rules, according to which PGI is trying to build their game, there is little to no difference. When you buy say Banshee 3M in MWO, strip it, change internal structure type, put different engine, different weapons that's essentially is no longer 3M varian, you've created your own, which according to lore would take years if not decades to build. Customization is half of the fun in both TT and computer games set in BT universe.

Days and weeks actually with factory level maintenance facilities available. Check out pages 183-185 and 188 of Strategic Operations for everything using standard engine sizes (multiplier of mech tonnage). For using non-standard engines sizes, use page 189 for the Frankenmech section (as directed by an admin on the CGL BattleTech forums in their rules questions section). For those that don't know, standard engine sizes means using a rating as a multiplier of the mech's tonnage, like an Atlas could mount 100, 200, 300, or 400 rated engines, not 305 or 270. To do the later would take the rules on page 189 of SO.

But to put it shortly, you just need an excellent set of technicians and mechanics, a factory level maintenance hub, and a few days or weeks depending on the changes you want to make. I mean in Lore they do similar things such as Yen-lo-Wang and other non-standard refits.

[kapusta11]

Taemien, on 12 February 2015 - 09:26 AM, said:

The thing that would kill some Inner Sphere Omni's is the heatsink type. The other stuff wouldn't mean so much to be honest. The Men-Shen is pretty quick for a medium, and the Owens already goes the speed of IS lights, right out of the box. The Heavy and Assault IS omnis go at the standard 3/5 and 4/6 movement that we normally see IS mechs go at those weights.

In all honesty, when we're talking IS Omni's we're thinking of the Owens, Strider, Avatar, and Sunder. Other mechs are just way too far down the line to worry about right now. Those 4 mechs aren't terrible and only the Strider would be hurting (due to speed), and maybe the Sunder (due to XL).

But as I said, the biggest thing is Heatsink type. If they change that one restriction, then the IS omni's will be fine. And it wouldn't change Clan Omni rules (who the hell is going to change a Madcat's heatsink type to Single?) very much.

Quirks and hardpoints will keep Clan BattleMechs in line. I still think their OmniMechs will be their primary mechs. Another thing of note is that Clan BattleMechs do not have variants until the 3060s. So these mechs cannot be elited out. I mean think about it, what could be done with the Hunchback II-C or Supernova that would make them OP compared to their stock configuration that couldn't already be done with an Omni of the same weight class?

At this point Clan BattleMechs wouldn't be that bad and would really only be owned and used by enthusiasts. Kind of like the Urbanmech.



Days and weeks actually with factory level maintenance facilities available. Check out pages 183-185 and 188 of Strategic Operations for everything using standard engine sizes (multiplier of mech tonnage). For using non-standard engines sizes, use page 189 for the Frankenmech section (as directed by an admin on the CGL BattleTech forums in their rules questions section). For those that don't know, standard engine sizes means using a rating as a multiplier of the mech's tonnage, like an Atlas could mount 100, 200, 300, or 400 rated engines, not 305 or 270. To do the later would take the rules on page 189 of SO.

But to put it shortly, you just need an excellent set of technicians and mechanics, a factory level maintenance hub, and a few days or weeks depending on the changes you want to make. I mean in Lore they do similar things such as Yen-lo-Wang and other non-standard refits.

Anyways, the point stands, changing hard wired stuff on BattlemMech and OmniMech is basically the same thing. There are no restrictions for Omnis, only recomendations to use same record sheets.

[Peiper]

Taemien, on 12 February 2015 - 09:26 AM, said:

stuff

1. Yes, IS omnimechs would still be limited by heat sink type, weapons weights and space, IS XL engines. They wouldn't be so super-duper as people might thing - most especially since we can frankenmech pretty much anything we want already with all the chassis/variants out there.
2. Clan battlemechs, like the IIC series, DO have variants listed in the 3050 technical read outs. Like IS battlemechs, they only SHOW one variant, but they often talk about other variants, and clan-specific modifications, in the text. I'm not sure of the 3050 record sheets show variants, but the TRO certainly does talk about them, even if they don't detail the stats.
3. Good thing we all have the money of a small house, our own personal factory level maintanance hubs, a few weeks between drops and an army of engineers and technicians!

[MauttyKoray]

MauttyKoray, on 11 February 2015 - 10:35 PM, said:

Hm, I think I would keep the Omni and Battlemech design choices we currently have.

Ideas:

IS Omni
-Use Omnipods system (locked internals/equipment too, like JJs!)
-Allow Endo/FF? (IS stuff is heavier remember)
-Restrict to stock engine (would go along with the locked internals/equipment)
What else?

Clan Battlemechs
-Get rid of Locked Internals
-Restrict Endo/Ferro (Clan stuff is lighter and engine swap will allow for more/less tonnage)
-Allow Engine Swap
What elsE?


Clan Battlemechs existed long before Clan Omnis and will eventually make it ingame...

IS Omnis were part of the reason they were able to repel the clans along with Lostech weaponry being developed.

Deal with it...they're coming eventually.

Brody319, on 11 February 2015 - 10:47 PM, said:

I think they should add Clan battle mechs, but have them with more restricted engine options, some but not to the level of their counterparts. And should have less inflated hardpoints, not taking a mech with 3 energy hardpoints total, and giving it 8, maybe 5-6.

IS omnimechs should just be the same as their Clan counterparts. The restriction of a hardlocked XL engine, will keep them in balance.

Give Clan Battlemechs a swappable engine but 1/2 the range that IS battlemechs get? That would be acceptable to me.

Stefka Kerensky, on 11 February 2015 - 11:01 PM, said:

A lot of these 2 kind of mechs are iconic and cool.

MauttyKoray's options seem reasonable to me.

Also, it's time for PGI to do a mind storm about MASC.
"We don't know how to make it work" is unacceptable: it's your work to find a solution.
MASC is been implemented in a lot of previous MW... quite ridicolus we still cannot have it, with all those mechs.

The Fire Moth goes 178kph with speed tweak, why not just ditch MASC? The range of the engines we can mount on our mechs in MWO pretty much negates the need for MASC, as that + Speed Tweak generally surpass the ability that MASC had for IS mechs, and Clan mechs don't really need it anyways. (200+ kph fire moth? Haha, that's crazy stupid fast and may actually break the game further.) While MASC may have played a bigger part in TT, we have a much more variable and real time speed for mechs movement in comparison to TT where the slightly extra movement could be a big deal.

I would be all for just removing MASC from the mechs in favor of something else on their stock loadouts, be it ammo, more heatsinks, or something to fill the tonnage freed by MASC.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 12 February 2015 - 02:19 PM.

[Taemien]

Peiper, on 12 February 2015 - 01:37 PM, said:

1. Yes, IS omnimechs would still be limited by heat sink type, weapons weights and space, IS XL engines. They wouldn't be so super-duper as people might thing - most especially since we can frankenmech pretty much anything we want already with all the chassis/variants out there.

As I said, I'm sure they'd lift that restriction, no one would use them otherwise.. well Sunder would be since it has them already.

Quote

2. Clan battlemechs, like the IIC series, DO have variants listed in the 3050 technical read outs. Like IS battlemechs, they only SHOW one variant, but they often talk about other variants, and clan-specific modifications, in the text. I'm not sure of the 3050 record sheets show variants, but the TRO certainly does talk about them, even if they don't detail the stats.

Just a FYI, TRO: 3050 has no Clan BattleMechs in it. And rules > fiction when it comes to that sort of thing. With that said.. MechWarrior (as in MW1-4, MWLL, and MWO) tends to stick to the lore until its inconvenient, then they go to the rules to make it work... course the opposite is true.. if the rules say something works one way and they don't like it, they'll go to the lore.

Though I'd think that the mechs they use will be iconic ones such as the Hunchback II-C, Behemoth (Stone Rhino), and Annihilator. Maybe even a Supernova, Kodiak, and maybe another II-C variant. My bets are on the Kodiak, Hunchback II-C, and maybe Supernova. Locust and Jenner just doesn't make much sense as we've got the IS versions. The Hunchback is an exception since the clan version is just so damned different in its perception and role. And of course it was announced sorta in the Hunchback founder video.

Quote

3. Good thing we all have the money of a small house, our own personal factory level maintanance hubs, a few weeks between drops and an army of engineers and technicians!

Those are the perks of working directly with the Inner Sphere house of our choice during these turbulent times.

[MauttyKoray]

Taemien, on 12 February 2015 - 08:31 PM, said:

As I said, I'm sure they'd lift that restriction, no one would use them otherwise.. well Sunder would be since it has them already.

No, when IS Omnimechs come out the Tech to rival (and even at some points surpass) the clans becomes available and thus using Clan weapons/equipment on IS Omnimechs is not needed.

Just a FYI, TRO: 3050 has no Clan BattleMechs in it. And rules > fiction when it comes to that sort of thing. With that said.. MechWarrior (as in MW1-4, MWLL, and MWO) tends to stick to the lore until its inconvenient, then they go to the rules to make it work... course the opposite is true.. if the rules say something works one way and they don't like it, they'll go to the lore.

Though I'd think that the mechs they use will be iconic ones such as the Hunchback II-C, Behemoth (Stone Rhino), and Annihilator. Maybe even a Supernova, Kodiak, and maybe another II-C variant. My bets are on the Kodiak, Hunchback II-C, and maybe Supernova. Locust and Jenner just doesn't make much sense as we've got the IS versions. The Hunchback is an exception since the clan version is just so damned different in its perception and role. And of course it was announced sorta in the Hunchback founder video.

Wrong, TRO 3050 was the introduction, those omnimechs in it were supposedly the 'initial wave' the mechs that the IS saw first and were used the most/exclusively at first. We're basing available mechs to implement in the game on their production date. Clan Battlemechs existed prior to 3050, therefore they're viable to add.

Those are the perks of working directly with the Inner Sphere house of our choice during these turbulent times.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 13 February 2015 - 08:54 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

MauttyKoray, on 12 February 2015 - 09:05 PM, said:

[Taemien Quote here]

yup, the LCT IIC 1-2-3 are all in production at or before 2853,