51 replies to this topic

[RedDevil]

What is the risk? You still need to deplete the internal structure before death don't you?

[Malcolm Vordermark]

reddevil, on 12 February 2015 - 09:39 AM, said:

What is the risk? You still need to deplete the internal structure before death don't you?

An arty strike has a nasty habit of destroying cockpits stripped of their armor.

[Greenjulius]

As many have already said, zero head armor is a bad idea if only because of air/artillery strikes. I've killed a few people with a strike when I noticed they were foolish enough to strip that armor down.

[Kodyn]

The actual amount is definitely dependent upon mech, can attest to that.

Just a fair warning, there are pilots, such as myself, who actively aim for heads on mechs we know we can headshot, and encourage our compatriots to do the same. For example, Atlas, you should always go for the headshot. Either you actually hit the left eye, which is an insta-kill for most weapons, or you miss, and anywhere else on the face counts as CT, so it's win-win.

It's similar for most man-form mechs, if you're aiming for the head, even a miss is a good CT hit. It's all about knowing which mechs have heads where, and how easily hits register on which hitboxes.

[Voivode]

On fast mechs I'll go as low as 5 points depending on build. On most others I'll keep it at 10 points or above. Taking all the armor off isn't advisable as damage to head locations does happen.

[Punk Oblivion]

Tarogato, on 11 February 2015 - 09:55 PM, said:

For the record, I got headshot'd by a triple ER PPC Thunderbolt yesterday while I was in one of my Wolverines. Triple ER PPC is 30pts of damage, and with max head armour (18) plus the internal HP (15) for a total of 33 hitpoints, the Thunderbolt must have got lucky and crit'd me, because my head armour was 100% in tact when he shot me. ^^;

That's because the damage that strips the armor is an automatic crit. Not a big deal with lasers or missiles, but since in this case it was a 10 point damage ERPPC, that is an automatic crit with a 10 point weapon. And that crit has a 34% chance of doing 3 points of extra damage. Mystery solved! (as additional info, that crit has a 60% chance of doing only 1.5 damage, and a 7% chance of doing 4.5 damage)

But onto the subject at hand, Like others said, Arty/air strikes, LRM's, SRMs, Lasers, and smaller ballistics all have a higher chance of grazing your head and putting small dents into it. So NO armor is bad. And I think as a general rule the smaller the mech, the more armor you can take off it's head, but I would not go under 5-6 ever.

[Nightmare1]

It really depends on the Mech. I've found that having head armor on Mechs with larger cockpit hitboxes, like the Atlas or Cent, is a good idea. For Mechs with smaller hitboxes, I tend to strip the head armor to gain extra tonnage.

It's really up to the individual pilot and the Mech.

Rouken, on 12 February 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:

An arty strike has a nasty habit of destroying cockpits stripped of their armor.

That got nerfed. Arties scarcely deal damage to the head now.

[Bigbacon]

Nightmare1, on 12 February 2015 - 12:06 PM, said:

It really depends on the Mech. I've found that having head armor on Mechs with larger cockpit hitboxes, like the Atlas or Cent, is a good idea. For Mechs with smaller hitboxes, I tend to strip the head armor to gain extra tonnage.

It's really up to the individual pilot and the Mech.



That got nerfed. Arties scarcely deal damage to the head now.

really? I still get killed all the time by head shots with arty on mechs with 0 head armor

[Nightmare1]

Bigbacon, on 12 February 2015 - 12:13 PM, said:

really? I still get killed all the time by head shots with arty on mechs with 0 head armor

I've been killed once by an arty to the head since they were nerfed, and about five additional times by arties that critted my engine (normally an Excel) since said nerf. I keep a running tab of those sorts of things so that I can compare and contrast between pre and post-nerfs. Prior to the nerf, I often did take substantial head damage and was often cockpitted. Post nerf, it's become an extremely rare occurrence.

Since arties got nerfed through the floor, they've become little more than minor annoyances. The only time they are truly problematic is if they are spammed four or five times back to back.

[SethAbercromby]

Nightmare1, on 12 February 2015 - 12:21 PM, said:

Since arties got nerfed through the floor, they've become little more than minor annoyances. The only time they are truly problematic is if they are spammed four or five times back to back.

It's a shame that PGI has a tendency to do "balance tweaks" in Extremes. 'Mechs have a tendency to get cockpit hits too often from Artillery strikes and airstrikes due to the projectiles hitting from straight above and the high per projectile damage can cause near instant-kills on lighter 'Mechs"

"Alright, let's significantly reduce the per projectile damage and in addition have the projectiles hit in a way that makes cockpit hits less likely"

Choose one, then sttle with the other if that doesn't work. Don't preemtively execute all nerfs at the same time.

[Nightmare1]

SethAbercromby, on 12 February 2015 - 12:56 PM, said:

It's a shame that PGI has a tendency to do "balance tweaks" in Extremes. 'Mechs have a tendency to get cockpit hits too often from Artillery strikes and airstrikes due to the projectiles hitting from straight above and the high per projectile damage can cause near instant-kills on lighter 'Mechs"

"Alright, let's significantly reduce the per projectile damage and in addition have the projectiles hit in a way that makes cockpit hits less likely"

Choose one, then sttle with the other if that doesn't work. Don't preemtively execute all nerfs at the same time.

Yeah, I know what you mean! I and most of the guys I drop with stopped using strikes and switched over to UAVs. Those are way more useful now. I feel like strikes are a waste of money in their current state.

Edited by Nightmare1, 12 February 2015 - 01:18 PM.

[Bloodweaver]

What Nightmare1 said. Artillery/Air Strikes are not a decapitation threat anymore. In fact, they're pretty harmless in general. There was a time, though, when each shell from a Strike would do 40 damage, and they had a habit of hitting your head. This is no longer the case, and hasn't been for some time.

Never do 0 armor on any component. Always have at least 1 point in each section. Enemies can see, when they target you, components that lack armor. Once I saw a Commando with no armor anywhere, packing LRMs

I've never found low head armor to be a problem. I run armor numbers well below what most people are recommending here, always have, and I can count the number of times I've died to headshots on one hand.

If you're worried about it, or if you're in a 'mech with an easily-hit head (Atlas, Catapult, almost all Clan 'mechs) run 16 armor. That's the safe number. It gives you just enough HP to survive a dual gauss hit to your cockpit. Dual AC20 also gives a headshot kill, but is not as easy to pull off(meaning, less common), and you can't run enough armor to protect against it anyway

Edited by Bloodweaver, 12 February 2015 - 01:23 PM.

[RedDevil]

I think people need to be extra sneaky with their airstrikes. The smoke makes it really easy for me to avoid them. So it sounds like 6 armour on the head is probably the best for light mechs?

[TercieI]

reddevil, on 12 February 2015 - 01:33 PM, said:

I think people need to be extra sneaky with their airstrikes. The smoke makes it really easy for me to avoid them. So it sounds like 6 armour on the head is probably the best for light mechs?

I would advise against this habit. As you improve you will face more and more players and builds that can and will headshot you. With 15 internals, I generally don't like to drop lower than 16 (because 31 survives a dual gauss hit once). This isn't as important as it once was and there are mechs I fudge it on based on experience, but as a newer player, don't assume this will always (or ever) be safe.

[terrycloth]

If you strip off the armor on your head, artillery will often headshot you. Still. And occasionally, you'll get gaussed.

I still do it sometimes when a build is really tight. Normally I like to keep 16 or so though.

[Tahribator]

If it's a slow 'Mech, absolutely not. Splash damage from Artillery and Airstrikes quickly deplete the head armor so you'll just die randomly to one of them inevitably.

For lights and really fast 'Mechs that don't have to worry about artillery/airstrike, sure.

[Tim East]

Tarogato, on 11 February 2015 - 09:55 PM, said:

For Locusts, in particular, it's customary to go as low as 5 or so points or even less, but I wouldn't do this with most mechs.

Beat me to it. I nearly never run max, but I never run none. The faster and smaller the mech, the less armor I'll tend to run, but I generally try to squeeze an extra half-ton out of it, starting with the head.

[Chagatay]

reddevil, on 11 February 2015 - 09:40 PM, said:

Since I started playing this game, I don't think I've ever been hit in the head. With that being said, is having 0 head armour a viable tactic?

If not 0, then how low do you usually go?

No...(you will learn quickly in cw when the dropship top ace pilot* shoots you there). For most mechs, I recommend full or 16. If you need to short ton 7-9 is ok (20 PPFLD is common and any less you run the risk of instagibbed).

* And I mean top ace, that dude is a haxxor.

[Malfrost]

I usually keep my head armor full, sometimes taking 1-4 points off if I need it in a pinch.

Today I was playing my Thunderbolt and met an Atlas straight on, he didnt turn, didnt move, just stood there pounding at me, so I zoomed in, lined up. And alpha'd 2ERPPC's and a LPL into his cockpit.

Didn't kill him with the first shot, but I recycled and finished him off before he realized JUST how much damage I was doing. Yes, a good pilot wouldn't do this, but with a little accuracy, a little zoom, and a little luck its not impossible to pull off some nice headshots, especially on that guy sniping or lrm'ing downrange who doesnt see you lining up.

[terrycloth]

I saw someone do that to an atlas, with machine guns. Do not let people facehug if you're in an Atlas.