22 replies to this topic

[Agent CraZy DiP]

There are literally hundreds of posts about salvage out there. I felt that this may merit its own post. I was sifting through posts about salvage and I think I came up with a plausible system that isn't too complex.




Super Simplified:

At the end of the battle, have a "salvage" screen that shows what equipment was able to be salvaged from the other team. Show how much each piece is worth individually and tallied together. Then show how much of that goes to each player. Make distribution based off the overall XP earned per-individual. Or if you wanted to chump out for fairness split it evenly. (Or just say here's what you got take it and go)


Salvage System:

Again have a post-battle/salvage screen showing what equipment is up for grabs. The equipment should be displayed with its condition percentage and value*. Then display the amount of money you will earn from the salvage based off of your XP earned in the battle. You are now given the option to forfeit your earnings for a piece of equipment of equal or lesser value, or taking your winnings and go.

Value: Equipment Value should be based off the NPC Market resell value minus the condition percentage. Ex: Item XYZ has a resell value of 100k at the market. Salvage item XYZ is at a 75% condition (25% damage). Salvage item XYZ is worth 75k (100k - 25%).

Earnings Forfeit Example:

You've earned 80k C-Bills worth of salvage for the battle. There happens to be a SRM 4 at 75% condition that is listed at 75K C-Bills. That same SRM 4 has a market value of 150k C-Bills New (100k resell at 100% condition). You have the option to then forfeit your salvage profit of 80k to get your hands on a discounted SRM 4. You lose the difference of 5k C-Bills worth of salvage, but you gain a piece of a equipment that you otherwise wouldn't have been able to afford yet... Only slightly crispy.

Streamlining:

Making it work with multiple people is the real trick. I can only see this being done one of two ways. Make it so everyone can get there hands on the same SRM 4 mentioned above if they've earned the salvage to get it. Or you can make a silent auction so to speak for that equipment between all the players and put a 60 second time limit to bid. After the 60 seconds, whoever had to forfeit the most salvage gets the equipment.

Side-notes: Possibly have back up bids in-case you don't win your primary bid. Possibly take the forfeited C-Bills and distribute it to everyone that didn't get a piece of equipment (5k in the case of the example).

Alternate Salvage System:

Earn Salvage Potins or SP from each battle. You can then use SP to buy from the NPC market or turn them in for C-Bills.

SP to C-Bill value could be based off of your standing (LPs) with your current House.

Edited by Agent CraZy DiP, 29 June 2012 - 11:15 AM.

[Fastred]

While I like complicated game mechanics and dealing with details as much as the next Mech Jockey. I feel that a simple C-Bill award or perhaps clan/advance tech credit would be far simpler to implement and work quite well.

Basically instead of worry about people needing gear they don't really need because lets face it some folks need everything. The pilots recieve a perfomance based award in credits so everyone can save for a cool toy minus all the drama of loot roles in a pug.

Sorry CrazyDip I am not trying to argue with all your ideas I just feel that some times keeping it simple is best. For that matter I think I just restates what you wrote in as your last option. Did you add that as an edit or do I need to find my reading glasses.

Edited by Fastred, 29 June 2012 - 11:27 AM.

[Fire for Effect]

Sound a bit like the "Mercenary Handbook" Sourcebook.

problem is most things have only 2 conditions.

OK or destroyed.... there simply is no 10% damaged medium laser.

You could just sum up the things that are intact in the destroyed mechs multiply it with a factor for being used stuff and then distribute it evenly for the winning team.
problem: Salvage rights are typically voided in most contracts(maybe you can negotiate this somehow at the beginning of the mission...) and house units have to give up everything to their parent house anyway....

[Agent CraZy DiP]

You're playing devils advocate, I get that. Which is why in the system I suggested you have the option of taking the C-Bills and leaving, or if you are the type that thinks you need everything you have that option as well. It would actually benefit the people that want to keep it simple by just taking the c-bills by redistributing the forfeited funds. But I'm going to play devils advocate as well... The community loves the idea of salvage and being able to pick and choose through the burnt out corpse of their fallen Atlas foe, and this is a simple and easy way to do that without breaking the game mechanics. People want the Battletech feel, and this is a way to do it.

[Fastred]

Perhaps we need to have a tech skill that effects the amount of salvage the team gets for a fight.

For that matter while developing tech skills the rate you gain combat skills would be reduced so that there is a down side to being a master tech as well as a combat pilot.

Not only could your tech skill increase salvage but it could help reduce the cost of repairs.

Just a thought.

Edited by Fastred, 29 June 2012 - 11:46 AM.

[Agent CraZy DiP]

Would that tech skill only effect your salvage or your whole teams salvage? I do like the idea of an alternate skill/job class besides just straight pilot. I've often thought about a diplomatic skill tree to allow easier cease fire agreements or bribes or something.

[T3rran]

Probably a great salvage system is having a sort of "draft" system.

Game will at random pick the choosing order for salvage. Maybe some outside influence based on performance (so grievers are never first,)

First person picks what they want, then second, then third, then fourth.. repeat until all salvage is completely picked up.

[Agent CraZy DiP]

That would take way to long. Not trying to shoot your idea down, but it really should be 60 seconds or less. And the option to not take part in it and just get straight C-Bills needs to be given. Not everyone will want to take the time, or care, about salvage.

[Waverider]

I would implement a salvage system based on actual damage.

Example:

A Mech would be partially savage by the winner and the loser - both can repair it to a new Mech. The costs to repair the Mech to minimal conditions will be standard to the loser and bigger to the winner, proportional to the damage caused - not every time will compensate to use that scrap to create a new Mech.

The weapons the same, I can salvage the weapons I destroyed in combat and need to pay for the repair, the loser will not lose his weapons, only need to fix it too. There will always a possible fix for the loser, so he never lost the Mech and equipment. But to the winner it will sometimes not compensate to fix the salvages.

And PGI will win double c-bills and will solve the Clan tech introduction problem: will be slowly been acquired by the players by the salvage system on the first waves Clanners (AI or selected players)

[AgentHarbinger]

Interesting idea for sure I like.

Simple C-bills is....well simple.... Easy to understand, easy to distribute "loot" to those whom did well.

Like to find someway to get salvage into this game, adds to the RPG side of it. I think this is a key element to adding some depth to keep the game interesting once the thrill of blasting other mechs settles in.

]-[arby

[Fire for Effect]

who says that there will be salvage?

But indeed I recommend the mercenary sourcebook approach to salvage at least in TT campains it worked quite well... I see no roadblock why it should be worse here.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

In some posts quite early on it was said - no salvage. Just people won't give up. PGI want to sell you stuff - not give it to you. Can you name me any MW non single player game where we have had salvage?

[Agent CraZy DiP]

People will never give up... EVER! Especially when there's an easy way to do it and make everyone happy.

[selina mozen]

This alternate salvage system is simple but looking a bit lengthy.

Edited by selina mozen, 19 July 2012 - 10:31 PM.

[Zyzyx66]

'Loot' is a nice way to add interest to the end of a match - it's cheap but undeniably exciting to 'roll' for a random drop.

What if a piece of salvage was rewarded to any SURVIVING players in the match, as an added bonus for... not dying I guess - perhaps just a random drop, nothing particularly fancy (doesn't need to be clan/lostech or anything). I don't know about anyone else, but I get all excited when I get loot, even if it is a poxy small laser or a busted heat sink

[Agent CraZy DiP]

selina mozen, on 19 July 2012 - 10:23 PM, said:

This alternate salvage system is simple but looking a bit lengthy.

60 seconds or less.

[CmdrSpider]

Your idea is well thought out to a point and I'm sure the wealth will be distributed evening according to whatever formula the devs come up with. However when you get to auctioning off the equipment seveal red flags went up immediately.

First why would I buy a damage piece of equipment? If its damaged that implies it doesn't function or doesn't function completely. Sorry but I don't want an SRM4 that only fires three rockets at a time or doesn't work at all. Its also been my experience that having something repaired usually cost more proportionally. So now my 25% damaged SRM4 cost me as much as SRM6 and to top it off it may not function as well.

Second lets say the equipment if fully function, but now I allow players to bid on it. Whats to stop members of the team from allowing one of their members to low ball the price, while they bid high. Now someone got something for cheap. Oh I know we can put in minimum prices, but if that price is less then the regular price in the mech lab we end up with the same issue. I can't imagine anyone wanting to pay more so what's the point of bidding on the object.

The only time bidding might have a place would be for "Special Equipment" such as Clan weapons. Now we could set minimum bid that is above its actual value. We're still in danger though of someone getting it for the minimum price. We're also in danger of the players with all the C-Bills ending up with every Clan scrap that becomes available.

Sorry but I just don't see anything good coming out of an auction feature in MWO.

[Hadham]

Why not just have each peice go to a random team member.

Also what happens if you take the other teams SRM4 does the person it was taken from loose it?

[Thorn Hallis]

I think there will be no other salvage then extra C-Bills.

Edited by Thorn Hallis, 20 July 2012 - 04:28 PM.

[JFlash49]

i say you take it if you want or take cash. thats simple enough