138 replies to this topic

[Roadkill]

Thanks for that. I'm not sure this is really solid evidence (yet), though, as I have also heard rumors of other emails from GMs that directly contradict this one. At least now I've seen this one.

Is there a different post/email that specifically mentions Skirmish?

(Side note: I'm just looking for clarity. I really don't care one way or the other, as when I drop I'm fine with it taking 15 minutes if it plays out that way. The tears of rage are often better entertainment than the game was in these situations. )

[Kristov Kerensky]

There probably is Roadkill, but the easiest way to find out for certain, email Support and ask. Any confusion about the rules, ask Support, they deal with it directly. Some of the earliest comments from PGI about it said you could do this, but that was also before Skirmish was put in. After Skirmish, they had to change their stance due to the griefing being done on purpose, as many who were opposed to Skirmish in the first place said they would do just to grief people into not wanting to play Skirmish so it would get removed. Childish in the extreme, welcome to how some of our community react to anything they don't like, see it everywhere in gaming these days.

[MechWarrior3671771]

Again, we have to remind certain people that the OP is not talking about shutting down & hiding to protect some stat:

Original Post: "I tried doing some hit and runs, but I was critical, so I run off hiding, zig zagging, and keeping track of them from a distance when possible for possible opportunities."

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 16 February 2015 - 01:00 PM.

[Stormyblade]

Stormyblade, on 14 February 2015 - 12:56 AM, said:

Kristov has summed up the expectations of this game quite well and yet the same 2 people want to refuse to believe that this is what is expected in this game with cries of "I won't play the game the way that someone else tells me to play!" and "I am not violating any rules and/or if I want to preserve my KDR I should be allowed to do so!" Something tells me these 2 want to just argue for argument's sake. Even when faced with logic, and replies from PGI, they still claim they aren't doing anything wrong. Sad, very sad.

After re-visiting this thread, there are now more than 2 that want to defend their play style and continue to argue. It makes me wonder just what types of people these are in real life - the kind that will argue the same point, over and over again, but just change their words or responses a tiny bit, trying to get some different response. Something tells me that the people in this thread that are still arguing are doing for some selfish reasons, and not to try to erase confusion within this community. I'm not trying to back up Kristov, but he has been extremely patient with his responses, and has asked repeatedly to NOT continue to sew any confusion, yet has been met with a never-ending stream of his thoughts and explanations being tossed back in his face.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Down 11 in alpine skirmish. They had 7 left. I was in a crab dual guass, 2erll and lrms. As soon as the last charge went up the mountain I knew I could not catch up lest be caught halfway up so I instead moved off to range them as the majority were brawlers. Heading back to base several on my team called my position repeatedly even though I told them my strategy in chat.

Still took down four before i was circle *****.

I really believe that if they didn't report my position I could have pulled it off or come damn close.

So in my mind if you allow this team treason to go on many opportunity's will be lost do to the ignorance of treason players.

You cant know whats in the players mind or his skillset towards a win. By assuming you miss opportunity. See it every damn day here.

I will gladly accept the few matches where the last man hides or does close to nothing to have the chance at an upset in the next match.

Just cannot stand the ignorant COD attitude displayed by supposed team players on both side of the argument. Only the extremes of both sides get a hearing.

Those who could make a difference get lost between the two extremes.

Oh as a side note I did over 900 dmg and 6 kills. No one on my team had more than one kill or over 400 dmg. Yet they knew better than I how I should play.

[MechWarrior3671771]

"After re-visiting this thread, there are now more than 2 that want to defend their play style and continue to argue. It makes me wonder just what types of people these are in real life - the kind that will argue the same point, over and over again, but just change their words or responses a tiny bit, trying to get some different response. Something tells me that the people in this thread that are still arguing are doing for some selfish reasons, and not to try to erase confusion within this community. I'm not trying to back up Kristov, but..."


You should look in a mirror. The post you are defending says: " if I want to preserve my KDR I should be allowed to do so!" But the original complaint has nothing to do with shutting down to preserve a K/D ratio (that no one cares about). Here is the original post AGAIN. Please address that instead of the silly K/D strawman, since you "don't want to sow confusion":

"I tried doing some hit and runs, but I was critical, so I run off hiding, zig zagging, and keeping track of them from a distance when possible for possible opportunities."

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 19 February 2015 - 05:10 AM.

[NextGame]

Morticia Mellian, on 12 February 2015 - 10:15 PM, said:

I just had someone saying the reported me which I am guessing referring to Non-Participation Abuse.

We were remaining 2 v 2, and my remaining teammate in a Dire Wolf was afk or dc until the last 10 seconds of the match. It happens, I know my client crashed me sometimes, forcing my mech into afk/dc.

The remaining opponents were Timber Wolf and Warhawk or Dire Wolf, against my already critical Cicada 3M. I tried doing some hit and runs, but I was critical, so I run off hiding, zig zagging, and keeping track of them from a distance when possible for possible opportunities.

Since it was a tie and for some reason they have not found the AFKed teammate's Dire Wolf, so I kept them focus on finding me to run the clock. If I am not able to effectively win, a tie is the next best thing.

I know can be boring and sucks, but the point of the matches is to win, even if it is to force a tie and stay alive. If the only way to do that is to stay alive by taking advantage of my speed and ecm, than i do so.

So I get a bit miffed when someone accuses me of abuse for aiming to win. I mainly play lights/light-medium mechs, not exactly the sort to easilly go one on one versus a heavier mech, let alone versus two or more heavier mechs. If i had my Raven 3L, would have been better able to take distant pop shots at them.

How restrictive is this Non-Participation Abuse rule?

1 vs 2-3 is fair enough, take your time and try to snatch a win, I don't see a problem there.

That said, if you weren't actually trying to fight, what does surviving as the last player do for you. Unless you are playing conquest and going to win on points, its still a loss (its only a tie in your scenario if the other team don't kill the AFK, and its impossible to comment on how that went down without having been there).

So yeah, if theres a chance of taking something from the game, fine. If you are going to lose anyway, please don't timewaste.

I have specific beef with 1 vs 6,7,8 doing that however as it just wastes peoples time and locks up their mechs for the duration of the timewaste when they simply are not going to take anything from the game.

Edited by NextGame, 19 February 2015 - 05:18 AM.

[Raggedyman]

As this is the third thread to appear in the last couple of weeks it's becoming obvious to me that some people just don't play well with others that the Skirmish game mode needs to be changed, as it's more open-ended nature (when compared to Conquest and Assault) is just doing some peoples head in. So I would propose there are two options left:

• continue to wave groin-cannons and try to enforce your morally superior game style on others
  
• get to the Suggestions forum and try to come up with a skirmish mode rules set that you find fits your hectic lifestyles better

There is of course option 3: let people play the game in their preferred style, as long as it doesn't break the rules, but I really don't think that's going to happen any time soon.

[MechWarrior3671771]

"I do have a problem with 1 vs 6,7,8 doing that however as it just wastes peoples time"

What if its 2 vs 6. Does that wastes people's time?

How about 3 vs 8 instead?

[Stormyblade]

Fenrisulvyn, on 19 February 2015 - 05:09 AM, said:

"After re-visiting this thread, there are now more than 2 that want to defend their play style and continue to argue. It makes me wonder just what types of people these are in real life - the kind that will argue the same point, over and over again, but just change their words or responses a tiny bit, trying to get some different response. Something tells me that the people in this thread that are still arguing are doing for some selfish reasons, and not to try to erase confusion within this community. I'm not trying to back up Kristov, but..." You should look in a mirror. The post you are defending says: " if I want to preserve my KDR I should be allowed to do so!" But the original complaint has nothing to do with shutting down to preserve a K/D ratio (that no one cares about). Here is the original post AGAIN. Please address that instead of the silly K/D strawman, since you "don't want to sow confusion": "I tried doing some hit and runs, but I was critical, so I run off hiding, zig zagging, and keeping track of them from a distance when possible for possible opportunities."

And there it is...just arguing for the sake of arguing. Nowhere in my latest response did I say I was defending any specific point, but rather trying to drive home the point that everyone here should be trying to NOT create confusion. It just so happens I responded in a thread where k/dr was brought up, but you'll notice that I didn't support or tear down anyone's right to do that, or anything else. Just stop arguing and changing responses in the hopes that you will sway others to your "cause," whatever cause that may be. It has been repeatedly been quoted what the rules are in Skirmish mode but you, along with others, just want to be able to do whatever it is your heart desires in any type of match, simply because you can get away with it because, in your mind, the rules aren't clear enough.

Now, it's just my opinion, but you don't really play this game to be part of a team, but just to push the boundaries and create discontent among those that really want to play this game in the way it was intended.

[NextGame]

Fenrisulvyn, on 19 February 2015 - 05:16 AM, said:

"I do have a problem with 1 vs 6,7,8 doing that however as it just wastes peoples time"

What if its 2 vs 6. Does that wastes people's time?

How about 3 vs 8 instead?

Its partly dependant on the condition of the mechs. 1 fresh mech (why are they fresh?) could take on a lance of sticks, or if the winning side has AFKers. But if the smaller side is running around armour stripped then its a different story.

So your answer is: It depends. It really should be generally obvious to everyone other than the wilfully ignorant in regards to when the fight is effectively over tbh.

There could be a reasonably accurate math calculation for it based on remaining weapons, mech conditions etc vs other sides same values that could represent the general point of no return for skirmish. but youre not going to find it here.

Edited by NextGame, 19 February 2015 - 05:25 AM.

[MechWarrior3671771]

"There is of course option 3: let people play the game in their preferred style, as long as it doesn't break the rules, but I really don't think that's going to happen any time soon."

Won't happen. We have some selfish entitled brats who think that because the match is over for them, it should be over for everyone else. Perhaps skirmish mode should be - "first team to 7 kills ends match so the brats can get back to their grind"

[MechWarrior3671771]

"It just so happens I responded in a thread where k/dr was brought up"

Well, if you didn't want to be called out for supporting the K/D nonsense you shouldn't have supported it.

"It has been repeatedly been quoted what the rules are in Skirmish mode but you, along with others, just want to be able to do whatever it is your heart desires in any type of match, simply because you can get away with it because, in your mind, the rules aren't clear enough."

We are following the rules for Skirmish. You guys are the ones violating them. The rules are very clear - the last man standing has a right to play out the match UNLESS he runs off to shutdown and hide for the remainder of the match, which is not what we are doing. So please, point out exactly what rule we are violating?

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 19 February 2015 - 05:37 AM.

[NextGame]

Fenrisulvyn, on 19 February 2015 - 05:24 AM, said:

"There is of course option 3: let people play the game in their preferred style, as long as it doesn't break the rules, but I really don't think that's going to happen any time soon."

Won't happen. We have some selfish entitled brats who think that because the match is over for them, it should be over for everyone else. Perhaps skirmish mode should be - "first team to 7 kills ends match so the brats can get back to their grind"

The only thing I've learned from this thread is that instead of just quitting the match and dropping in another mech like I normally do, its probably going to be more entertaining to report timewasters for non participation

[MechWarrior3671771]

"It depends. It really should be generally obvious to everyone other than the wilfully ignorant in regards to when the fight is effectively over tbh."

What? You don't think the last man standing vs 10 doesn't already know the match is lost? There are other reasons to fight than simply winning some pug match.

And even if he thinks he can still pull out a win, its not your place to determine the outcome of the match for him - if you didn't want to leave him standing, you shouldn't have left him standing.



"its probably going to be more entertaining to report timewasters for non participation"

Hopefully, Support will waste even more of your time for filing false reports.

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 19 February 2015 - 05:39 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Morticia Mellian, on 12 February 2015 - 10:15 PM, said:

I just had someone saying the reported me which I am guessing referring to Non-Participation Abuse.

We were remaining 2 v 2, and my remaining teammate in a Dire Wolf was afk or dc until the last 10 seconds of the match. It happens, I know my client crashed me sometimes, forcing my mech into afk/dc.

The remaining opponents were Timber Wolf and Warhawk or Dire Wolf, against my already critical Cicada 3M. I tried doing some hit and runs, but I was critical, so I run off hiding, zig zagging, and keeping track of them from a distance when possible for possible opportunities.

Since it was a tie and for some reason they have not found the AFKed teammate's Dire Wolf, so I kept them focus on finding me to run the clock. If I am not able to effectively win, a tie is the next best thing.

I know can be boring and sucks, but the point of the matches is to win, even if it is to force a tie and stay alive. If the only way to do that is to stay alive by taking advantage of my speed and ecm, than i do so.

So I get a bit miffed when someone accuses me of abuse for aiming to win. I mainly play lights/light-medium mechs, not exactly the sort to easilly go one on one versus a heavier mech, let alone versus two or more heavier mechs. If i had my Raven 3L, would have been better able to take distant pop shots at them.

How restrictive is this Non-Participation Abuse rule?

Don't worry too much about it. We have a small but screamingly loud sliver of the community who's appointed themselves the "Non-Participation Police" and report everyone who inconveniences "their" time because they're more important than you and their time playing a game is more valuable than yours, and can't figure out how to drop match, grab another mech and re-launch.

Just make sure to screenshot and report team traitors to support@mwomercs.com with the time and map of the treason.

PS. total thumbs up for the name, 'Tish.

Edited by Kjudoon, 19 February 2015 - 05:40 AM.

[NextGame]

Fenrisulvyn, on 19 February 2015 - 05:36 AM, said:

What? You don't think the last man standing vs 10 doesn't know the match is lost? And even if he thinks he can still pull out a win, its not your place to determine the outcome of the match for him - if you didn't want to leave him standing, you shouldn't have missed him.

You shouldn't have missed him??? Are you advocating that we teamkill timewasters in advance, or what? You realise that's against the rules, right?

Quote

There are other reasons to fight than simply winning some pug match.

Yeah, such as trolling 23 other players by locking up their mechs for the duration of a match, which is both unreasonable and a problem.

Lets say that theres 5 or 6 minutes left in a game, and some squirrel runs of to play peek a boo knowing full well that a loss is a certainty. That's a combined total of 2 hours worth of playtime that the other 23 players cant take those mechs out for, and is worse for the remaining players on the other team as they are stuck in the map to ensure they get a win.

Edited by NextGame, 19 February 2015 - 05:43 AM.

[Stormyblade]

Fenrisulvyn, on 19 February 2015 - 05:30 AM, said:

"It just so happens I responded in a thread where k/dr was brought up" Well, if you didn't want to be called out for supporting the K/D nonsense you shouldn't have supported it. "It has been repeatedly been quoted what the rules are in Skirmish mode but you, along with others, just want to be able to do whatever it is your heart desires in any type of match, simply because you can get away with it because, in your mind, the rules aren't clear enough." We are following the rules for Skirmish. You guys are the ones violating them. The rules are very clear - the last man standing has a right to play out the match UNLESS he runs off to shutdown and hide for the remainder of the match, which is not what we are doing. Please, point out exactly what rule we are violating by doing that?

See, again, nowhere in either of my posts did I support or tear apart K/DR preservation. If I didn't say it specifically either way, don't make an assumption. It's called don't read anything into the response that wasn't explicitly said.

As for the rest, you are just continuing your argument in the hopes that I will be swayed by your logic to your way of thinking. I've already said that it's obvious you don't want to play the team environment in which it was intended but just push boundaries in order to satisfy your whims. The rules for Skirmish have been posted, but since you claim that you are not doing one exact thing that could be considered a violation, then everything you are doing is fine and not breaking any rule. Arguing just to argue.

[Ghogiel]

Fenrisulvyn, on 15 February 2015 - 08:10 AM, said:

Ghogiel in particular has stated that doing hit & runs on a 1 v 10 is "wasting his time" and "griefing" him, and is a reportable offense.

Maybe you should learn what your own side has been advocating before complaining that we are "sowing confusing"

lol. no.

I have only said shuttingdown/hiding/not engaging is non particpation

The ONLY time I said active participation is non participation is when a SDR tags 5 mechs with an ER and goes and hides for the rest of the match on skirmish,.

[Rushin Roulette]

Mystere, on 14 February 2015 - 09:33 AM, said:

Morticia had no way of pulling off a win no matter what, wasn't trying to get a win, and therefore was not playing in the spirit of the game for Skirmish mode ("it's Skirmish after all, kill the enemy is the objective" - your words too).

Um I seem to remember there being more than one objective for just about every game mode (The only game mode with only one objective is Attacking in CW where you need to destroy the Omega cannon)... Do you mind informing us what the complete objectives for Skirmish are?