70 replies to this topic

[CDLord HHGD]

Only way to fix this is to remove all quirks and enforce stock build. Remove the mechlab completely.

[Apnu]

Metus regem, on 13 February 2015 - 11:07 AM, said:

There is a fine ballance point between ballanced, is over board. the 7.5 heat ERPPC's were on the over-board side. I mean the 9S made a better Awesome or Warhawk, than the Awesome or Warhawk for crying outloud! If you cannot see why they was wrong, I don't know how better to get through to you.

As for the Storm Crow, yes it does need to have it's hit boxes looked at (though mine come apart, like they are made of tissue paper...), As for the TImber Wolf, she needs a slight agility hit, say 5-10% reduction in twisting and turning speed.

As for the Clan XL engine, you do know that is the only engine that Clan mechs get right? You do know that they cannot change their engine sizes right? And before you say "make it work like IS XL engines!" You do know that would render all but the Storm Crow, Timber Wolf and Dire Wolf to the scrap bin right? (even those three would be in a really, really bad place if they did that.)

Two slot DHS.
7 Slot ES and FF
2 slot XLs
Longer range energy weapons
Less weight on most weapons
More ammo for ballistic weapons per ton
No minimum range on LRMs

Let me get the smallest violin in the world to play the saddest song for the clans.

As for the holy trinity, most clan players have already put all other clan mechs in the scrap bin.

[Mcgral18]

Apnu, on 13 February 2015 - 11:39 AM, said:

Let me get the smallest violin in the world to play the saddest song for the clans.

As for the holy trinity, most clan players have already put all other clan mechs in the scrap bin.

And if they weren't utter rubbish, you would see more than 4 robots. The blanket nerfs killed them.

Nova has to choose between 120% heat lasers, 150% heat lasers, or simply take a better robot that doesn't need to rely on exceedingly hot lasers. That other robot is also not as wide as an Awesome.

[Metus regem]

nehebkau, on 13 February 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

How the heck would you know? You've only been playing clan mechs in CW. Clan technological advantage would be fine if clan players were FORCED to:

1. Not help each other in the race for Terra. Clanners were not buddy-buddy lets all hug and work together.
2. Be FORCED to adhere to Clan traditions including -- what is it called -- zelbrigen?

After all, it is cannon -- which is what you always thow back into our faces (those of us who just want to play)

I am just a little pissed that i spent a CRAPLOAD of Cbills on mechs whose Quirk-pass 2 changes make the reason I purchased, upgraded and leveled them, no longer valid. Will I get all my tens of millions of c-bills back? What bout the GXP i used to level them?

Think how I feel then? I would love to use a Nova, but that mech has been next to useless sicne day one thanks to Ghost Heat and 1.4DHS, same for the Warhawk. After all, I spent a crap load of actual chas to use clan tech, if you want to use the fake money and xp as a point of contention.

I would be happy if I had to play with Clan Zelbringen, if I had true clan tech advantage, but that advantage would be so over board, it wouldn't be funny. I also hardly ever play CW, I think I've done less than 10 drops for CW, mostly due to the fact that I'm a husband and father to a two year old, and I don't have the time to sit and wait for a CW match.

That being said, I am on board with a slight hit to the TImber Wolf's agility, a pass on the Storm Crow's questionable hit boxes. It is wrong how ever to think that making the hottest weapon in the game, into one of the coldest was a good and smart thing to do. What has happened is people got used to playing with something that was broken, and are now upset, that it is being fixed.

[Bishop Steiner]

nehebkau, on 13 February 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

How the heck would you know? You've only been playing clan mechs in CW. Clan technological advantage would be fine if clan players were FORCED to:

1. Not help each other in the race for Terra. Clanners were not buddy-buddy lets all hug and work together.
2. Be FORCED to adhere to Clan traditions including -- what is it called -- zelbrigen?

After all, it is cannon -- which is what you always thow back into our faces (those of us who just want to play a balanced game and don't really give a crap about a board game)

I am just a little pissed that i spent a CRAPLOAD of Cbills on mechs whose Quirk-pass 2 changes make the reason I purchased, upgraded and leveled them, no longer valid. Will I get all my tens of millions of c-bills back? (probably approaching 100-million) What bout the GXP i used to level them?



And since when is 2 ERPPCs a boat? When is 3 ERPPCs a boat? That is what 9S pilots were carrying.

3 er ppc/ppc has always been considered boating. When packing heavy weapons with long range PP-FLD you don't need 10 of them to be boating. The AWS has ALWAYS been a poster boy of an energy boat.

[Metus regem]

Apnu, on 13 February 2015 - 11:39 AM, said:

Two slot DHS.
7 Slot ES and FF
2 slot XLs
Longer range energy weapons
Less weight on most weapons
More ammo for ballistic weapons per ton
No minimum range on LRMs

Let me get the smallest violin in the world to play the saddest song for the clans.

As for the holy trinity, most clan players have already put all other clan mechs in the scrap bin.

And I'm not most, I like running my Adders, I like running my Warhawks, I just tank with clan Mediums, but I would love to use my Nova.

[Cyberiad]

The problem with nerfing clans is that you also have to nerf their cbill costs. If you nerf clans such that the mech is no longer worth 50m cbills then it shouldn't be worth 50m cbills. As long as mechs have price tags and IS mechs cost less than clan mechs, there will always be imbalance. What the IS need is a mech that costs 50m cbills that they can bring to a match of which none exist. The smart way to do it would have been would have been to allow IS mechs to equip clan engines and equipment like in previous MW games. As for people who would argue this is not canon or lore friendly, I answer with the fact that none of the old MW games were and that this is still Mechwarrior Online not Battletech Tabletop Game Online.

[Dagon Zur]

Instead of nerfing the OP clan mechs, i would unlock Endo/Ferro for less fortunate clan mechs, making them nearly all OP...
Then i would try the original idea of 12 vs 10. and make further ballances to IS from that point. But that's just me...

[Apnu]

Metus regem, on 13 February 2015 - 11:46 AM, said:

And I'm not most, I like running my Adders, I like running my Warhawks, I just tank with clan Mediums, but I would love to use my Nova.

o7
I salute you sir! I too like to run "trash" mechs. Look at my sig! That's my Elite's founders choice and still the mech I love the most.

[Apnu]

Mcgral18, on 13 February 2015 - 11:43 AM, said:

And if they weren't utter rubbish, you would see more than 4 robots. The blanket nerfs killed them.

Nova has to choose between 120% heat lasers, 150% heat lasers, or simply take a better robot that doesn't need to rely on exceedingly hot lasers. That other robot is also not as wide as an Awesome.

That's more about ghost heat than anything else. And if we didn't have ghost heat, clans would be even more the monster than they are now.

My point is, clans have huge advantages that many clan whiners around here over look.

But to solve the Nova's problem, that's easy, give it a quirk that removes or shifts ghost heat away when it packs cERMLs. Problem solved.

[Mcgral18]

Apnu, on 13 February 2015 - 12:39 PM, said:

That's more about ghost heat than anything else. And if we didn't have ghost heat, clans would be even more the monster than they are now.

My point is, clans have huge advantages that many clan whiners around here over look.

But to solve the Nova's problem, that's easy, give it a quirk that removes or shifts ghost heat away when it packs cERMLs. Problem solved.

No, it has nothing to do with Ghost Heat. The lasers themselves are at 150% and 120% heat. Ghost heat is easily avoided, but the Nova only has 10% heat reduction, so it's still at 110 and 140% heat for lasers it can take.

Still a net nerf. Hitboxes are the worst problem. If half the Clan mechs weren't poorly built, you'd see more.

[Andi Nagasia]

Apnu, on 13 February 2015 - 12:39 PM, said:

That's more about ghost heat than anything else. And if we didn't have ghost heat, clans would be even more the monster than they are now.

My point is, clans have huge advantages that many clan whiners around here over look.

But to solve the Nova's problem, that's easy, give it a quirk that removes or shifts ghost heat away when it packs cERMLs. Problem solved.

its not only about Ghost heat, but that does play a factor,
and Clan does have problems with its LRM/AC weapon systems,

to my experience most Clanners dont over look their benefits and only see the problems,
but then again their are IS pilots that over look their benefits and only see the problems,
its the few that complain with out constructive criticism that spoil the discussion,

i feel Quirks will really help the Lesser Clans,
but having only ER-ML quirks i dont feel is the answer,
as then everyone will run 12ER-ML Novas and the others will die out,
(personally i run my Nova with 6ER-ML / 6MPL / 4ER-LL, "Less is More" builds)
Edit- Spelling

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 13 February 2015 - 12:50 PM.

[FupDup]

cdlord, on 13 February 2015 - 11:37 AM, said:

Only way to fix this is to remove all quirks and enforce stock build. Remove the mechlab completely.

Suddenly, Stormcrow Prime. Stormcrow Primes everywhere.

[Metus regem]

Apnu, on 13 February 2015 - 12:35 PM, said:

o7
I salute you sir! I too like to run "trash" mechs. Look at my sig! That's my Elite's founders choice and still the mech I love the most.

o7
And I to you, my current ried of choice is my Locust 1V, I'm thinking about getting a Dragon 1C again for reasons being that it was the first mech I ran, when i started.

[Apnu]

Andi Nagasia, on 13 February 2015 - 12:50 PM, said:

its not only about Ghost heat, but that does play a factor,
and Clan does have problems with its LRM/AC weapon systems,

to my experience most Clanners dont over look their benefits and only see the problems,
but then again their are IS pilots that over look their benefits and only see the problems,
its the few that complain with out constructive criticism that spoil the discussion,

i feel Quirks will really help the Lesser Clans,
but having only ER-ML quirks i dont feel is the answer,
as then everyone will run 12ER-ML Novas and the others will die out,
(personally i run my Nova with 6ER-ML / 6MPL / 4ER-LL, "Less is More" builds)
Edit- Spelling

I think the quirks should be pod specific for weapons on that pod only. Who knows if that will happen. But it would be great, then Clans can mix-and-match which is the real flavor of the clans IMO.

I know IS has some advantages, we don't have trickle LRMs and bursting ACs, and frankly that's BS.

We could remove all that silliness if PGI had decided to have the clans play in stars of 5 (and 2 stars per match) and also incentivized clans to take under-weight chassis by giving them bigger c-bill bonuses if they "bid" under for a match.

[Metus regem]

Apnu, on 13 February 2015 - 12:58 PM, said:

I think the quirks should be pod specific for weapons on that pod only. Who knows if that will happen. But it would be great, then Clans can mix-and-match which is the real flavor of the clans IMO.

I know IS has some advantages, we don't have trickle LRMs and bursting ACs, and frankly that's BS.

We could remove all that silliness if PGI had decided to have the clans play in stars of 5 (and 2 stars per match) and also incentivized clans to take under-weight chassis by giving them bigger c-bill bonuses if they "bid" under for a match.

I could so get on board with these ideas if they were ever implmented.

[Johnny Z]

Apnu, on 13 February 2015 - 11:39 AM, said:

Two slot DHS.
7 Slot ES and FF
2 slot XLs
Longer range energy weapons
Less weight on most weapons
More ammo for ballistic weapons per ton
No minimum range on LRMs

Let me get the smallest violin in the world to play the saddest song for the clans.

As for the holy trinity, most clan players have already put all other clan mechs in the scrap bin.

You forgot more damage on all weapons. Why everyone forget that?

[Kristov Kerensky]

nehebkau, on 13 February 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

How the heck would you know? You've only been playing clan mechs in CW. Clan technological advantage would be fine if clan players were FORCED to:

1. Not help each other in the race for Terra. Clanners were not buddy-buddy lets all hug and work together.
2. Be FORCED to adhere to Clan traditions including -- what is it called -- zelbrigen?

After all, it is cannon -- which is what you always thow back into our faces (those of us who just want to play a balanced game and don't really give a crap about a board game)

I am just a little pissed that i spent a CRAPLOAD of Cbills on mechs whose Quirk-pass 2 changes make the reason I purchased, upgraded and leveled them, no longer valid. Will I get all my tens of millions of c-bills back? (probably approaching 100-million) What bout the GXP i used to level them?



And since when is 2 ERPPCs a boat? When is 3 ERPPCs a boat? That is what 9S pilots were carrying.

About that Clan Honor thing..yeah, see, that's not really what happened after the Clans hit the Inner Sphere. SOME of the Invading Clans did indeed offer Batchall and the Trueborn fought with Zellbrigen. That was mostly dropped by all but Wolf pretty damn quick though, since IS commanders would LIE when doing the Batchall and IS warriors had no idea what Zellbrigen is or even cared. Some of the Clans never even bothered with Zellbrigen, the IS stravags weren't worthy of such consideration ever.
So..while it is good Clan Lore and how they fought with each other, not so much when they dealt with the Inner Sphere, the novels and lore make that clear pretty quickly. For pity's sake, you expect an enemy who used orbital bombardment on a CIVILIAN target to offer you an honorable 1 on 1 combat? Read up on the actual lore of the Invasion, stop only going by the Clan Lore, BIG disconnect betwixt the two.

So sad to hear you spent a lot of ingame collected money on an ingame resource in an MMO. Obviously new to MMOs, so let me explain a things to you...
EVERYTHING gets changed, the more powerful something is, the higher the odds of it getting changed quickly as opposed to slowly, see the Thunderbolt 9S for a prime example of this in action. Go check out the forums for WoW, EQ, AoC, DAOC, etc, etc for how this functions.
NOTHING is set in stone except..nothing. Things can and will often change BECAUSE! Too many people complain about any given thing, it will be changed. No one complains about any given thing, it will be changed. The sun set, some randomly determined thing will be changed.

Oh, and being able to fire 3 ERPPCs, grouped alpha, multiple times..and you don't see what's wrong there? I mean, if it was a Warhawk, I could see it, if it was an Awesome 9M I could see it, those Mechs are DESIGNED to do that. But a Thunderbolt 9S is NOT designed to do that, not even remotely close to being able to do that, but it was given quirks which not only allowed it but actually encouraged it. You don't see the problem there?

[terrycloth]

I don't see the problem with a mech that has no other use being able to do some random thing, no. I also didn't see tbolts firing their PPCs grouped. Most were chain-firing to avoid ghost heat. Thus the informal name 'PPC machine gun'.

[Apnu]

Mcgral18, on 13 February 2015 - 12:43 PM, said:

No, it has nothing to do with Ghost Heat. The lasers themselves are at 150% and 120% heat. Ghost heat is easily avoided, but the Nova only has 10% heat reduction, so it's still at 110 and 140% heat for lasers it can take.

Still a net nerf. Hitboxes are the worst problem. If half the Clan mechs weren't poorly built, you'd see more.

You forget the clan lasers have greater range and more damage than IS counterparts. Despite the long burn time, the cerML has a better DPS than the ML.

IS medium laser:
Damage: 5.00
Heat: 4.00
Cooldown: 3.00
Range: 270
Max range: 540
Slots: 1
Tons: 1.0
Duration: 0.90
DPS: 1.28
DPH: 1.25
DPS/T: 1.28
HPS: 1.03

Clan ER Medium Lasers
Damage: 7.00
Heat: 6.00
Cooldown: 3.00
Range: 405
Max Range: 810
Slots: 1
Tons: 1.0
Duration: 1.15
DPS: 1.69
DPH: 1.17
DPS/T: 1.69
HPS: 1.45

Source: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...eam_innersphere