314 replies to this topic

[Ace Selin]

3xLL heat penalty removed should help some against the Clan ERML which is kinda its equivalent

Edited by Ace Selin, 07 March 2015 - 07:20 PM.

[Fiona Marshe]

Also, the LL changes are server-side only, so don't show in the Testing Grounds.

[Insects]

I know, but you can see in the movie that its a real game.

[Nightshade24]

I'm still waiting for the ER large laser ghost heat to be removed for groups of 3...

Or at least to break up the linked ghost heat for the small and medium lasers and pulse variants...

or at least remove ghost heat from pulse lasers in general...


so much ghost heat...

[Kiiyor]

Nightshade24, on 09 March 2015 - 01:38 AM, said:

I'm still waiting for the ER large laser ghost heat to be removed for groups of 3...

Or at least to break up the linked ghost heat for the small and medium lasers and pulse variants...

or at least remove ghost heat from pulse lasers in general...


so much ghost heat...

I thought the ER large ghost heat was set at three like the LL now? At least it seems that way to me, i've got three of each in my Stalker...

[kosmos1214]

well it is the same weapon group

[Kiiyor]

Ozealot, on 12 March 2015 - 05:10 PM, said:

You can check here http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/equipment (scroll down to heat penalties) for the values*. Currently IS LLs shouldn't have GH until you fire more than three. As for your question: Large Laser includes LL, ERLL and LPL.

*the current "test" isn't reflected here so don't get confused

Yeah, I thought the poster I replied to was insinuating that ERLL wasn't included on the three bump. I've tested mine at any rate, and all is shiny.

[Nightshade24]

Kiiyor, on 12 March 2015 - 01:08 PM, said:

I thought the ER large ghost heat was set at three like the LL now? At least it seems that way to me, i've got three of each in my Stalker...

As earlier comments. I am mainly targeting the Clan weapons.

Hence why I said the ER medium lasers, Medium pulse lasers, ER small lasers, and Small pulse lasers all have linked ghost heat.

[Widowmaker1981]

Nightshade24, on 12 March 2015 - 09:11 PM, said:

As earlier comments. I am mainly targeting the Clan weapons.

Hence why I said the ER medium lasers, Medium pulse lasers, ER small lasers, and Small pulse lasers all have linked ghost heat.

Yeah i hate that too - but clans have mechs capable of running 14E hardpoints and 2 slot DHS, so i think it has to stay that way, or the 14MPL Direwolf/Gladiator is coming to remove your side torsi in one pinpoint hitscan shot.

[Nightshade24]

Widowmaker1981, on 13 March 2015 - 07:55 AM, said:

Yeah i hate that too - but clans have mechs capable of running 14E hardpoints and 2 slot DHS, so i think it has to stay that way, or the 14MPL Direwolf/Gladiator is coming to remove your side torsi in one pinpoint hitscan shot.

14 MPL direwolf? A mech barely going 50 kph with a max eff range 330 meters...
That is very short range and the mech is very slow.

Let's go pretend if it ever gets in range... well even then it's quite underwelming. With elite quirks it has 5 seconds till it over heats so it can't even sustain a normal fight... This is WITHOUT ghost heat and max possible DHS.

152.40 heat for firing 12 med pulse lasers due to ghost heat

Ontop of those many problems the direwolf still has lots of tons left after this build...

This build is quite bad, but even if it works (lets say 50% reduced heat for med pulse lasers?) It is the dire wolf... the Daishi.
It is iconic for having the most firepower of any mech so this example you had is not that good.

It's like crying why do stalkers have so many LRM's, why doesn't Banshee have that many?


On situation with Executioner. It can't be that cold either with any pulse builds but MASC does help quite a bit...

[Lightfoot]

So why aren't Clan ER Large included? They are about the same as Inner Sphere ER large except hotter, longer duration. 2 points more damage, but 2 more heat which is a much greater hindrance than IS ERL's weighing one extra ton.

I think you are over-nerfing Clan tech due to the Closed Mechlab. I can go along with the locked Engine, but that is all at this point. IS ERL's with no Ghost Heat for three when they are actually better than Clan ERL's once DHS 1.4's poor cooling is figured in just made me realize it. I think you are trying to balance Clan Tech on the Mad Cat and Dire Wolf's abilities. If so allow more equipment changes in the Clan Mechlab so the other Clan Mechs can have those modifications as well.

One overlooked fact is that omnipod changes are actually field modifications that do not require Mechlab. Mechlab is a device created in each MechWarrior game that allows equipment changes (and weapon changes for non-omnimechs). There is no Mechlab in Battle Tech. So you can't say these changes are not canon for Clan mechs when the standard mech changes in Mechlab are also not canon to the same degree.

That's all, but I think at some point all the Clan mechs should be able to use the modifications of the Timber Wolf and Dire Wolf since that seems to be the point of Clan vs Inner Sphere balance. I don't intend to always play Clan in CW either. This is just a personal beta test for me and some of these Clan mechs are, well really bad. No apparent balancing at all.



.

Edited by Lightfoot, 16 March 2015 - 03:21 AM.

[ShinVector]

Lightfoot, on 15 March 2015 - 09:30 PM, said:

So why aren't Clan ER Large included? They are about the same as Inner Sphere ER large except hotter, longer duration. 1 point more damage, but 3 more heat which is a much greater hindrance than IS ERL's weighing one extra ton.

Can't because clanners aren't aware their Clan ERs do 11 damage not 10 ?

[Lightfoot]

ShinVector, on 15 March 2015 - 10:36 PM, said:

Can't because clanners aren't aware their Clan ERs do 11 damage not 10 ?

Good point because with DHS 1.4 the drawback of the extra 2 points of heat outweighs the extra 2 points of damage with a 0.25 longer duration/recharge.

DHS 1.4 means you reach a physical heat cap very fast in MWO. Like you can run 4x ER Mediums with 12-14 DHS with minor cooldowns, but add 2 more and you will overheat quickly with 24 DHS. It's MWO's solution to boating Energy weapons, but it means IS ER Large are actually a lot more efficient and accurate. If we had DHS 2.0's you would be correct.

It also calls the Clan Mechlab restrictions into question which are totally unbalancing since the game is being balanced on what the Mad Cat and Dire Wolf can do, not on what the Thor can do. The Thor could be a good 70 ton mech without fixed jump-jets and then add Endo Steel internals. Jump-jets don't offer 70 ton mechs any evasiveness in MWO due to pop-tart nerfs anyway. You will never achieve any balance whatsoever between the Clan mechs with such huge differences in payload.

On a side note, a Thor with 3xER Large and no Ghost Heat might be a marginally good mech in certain configurations.

Just giving some feedback. The 3x Large Laser thing seems correct for gameplay.

[ShinVector]

Ok.... Won't reply any more because it would be waste of time.

[KHAN ATTAKHAN]

Terciel1976, on 13 February 2015 - 06:47 PM, said:

Boom. Shaka. Lakka.

Bout time.

Edited by KHAN ATTAKHAN666, 22 February 2016 - 01:27 AM.

[Insects]

Lightfoot, on 15 March 2015 - 09:30 PM, said:

So why aren't Clan ER Large included? They are about the same as Inner Sphere ER large except hotter, longer duration. 2 points more damage, but 2 more heat which is a much greater hindrance than IS ERL's weighing one extra ton.

Because clan range is considered OP already.
Personally I dont know if it is, but many say so and complain that imbalanced (clan mechs are supposed to be more powerful afterall, they were superior technology invaders) so clans kept nerfed at this stage.
Perhaps as other balances are improved and people are happy things are even their ghost heat will be wound back too.

[quantaca]

Well i feel there are some flaws in both the ghost heat and quirk systems, most battles get resolved around the optimal range for clan mediums, why ? Because you can easily see and hit your opponent without spreading your dmg all over (most people dont have near perfect aim) so IS meds are somewhat at an disadvantage now instead of all the different quirks why not just wave the magic wand and give them some extra range (Call them ER if you have to) say 50M to make it a nice round number, makes it 270 for pulse 330 for reg ones still less dmg and less heat to make up for range difference, alternatively they could have reduced clan meds with that 50M, might make it so time to kill gets reduced a bit. (Game gets a bit noob friendlier)

Now ghost heat is tricky we all like to deal high alphas but dont want to get hit by them so not a bad idea but the execution is flawed, heat is supposed to reflect the capacity of our reactor (engine) so stressing that reactor with a high alpha results in higher heat generated nothing wrong with that but the fact that you can mix up weapons and ask your reactor to deliver the same or even higher performance but without penalties does not make sense (not looking from a gaming perspective here mind you) so ghost heat should actually occur when you ask your reactor perform above a certain limit regardless of weapons used, now you can even factor in engine size a bigger engine should be able to deliver more power, so you could cap heat at engine size /10 (10 is just a random number i didnt check to see how that relates in game, i dont know all the heat stats for every single weapon but i suspect that its going to be to high) now while the heat system itself wouldnt be noob friendly (prob not even casual friendly) to understand it might decrease high alphas and increase time to kill.

On that same time to kill note i wouldnt mind if IS XL engines got a slight boost in survivability say blowing out a side torso doesnt instakill but does massive internal dmg so it might still explode if the other parts already took dmg but thats actually a totally different topic with huge ballance impact so ill leave it at that

So ideas? remarks ? do keep in mind that all numbers are rather random, maths and testing were not part of my thinking process

[Punk Oblivion]

^ Wouldn't be a bad idea, each weapon gets a point value, with bigger weapons having more points, and the engines can only handle X points per .5-1 seconds.

Bigger engines could also have more points available per "alpha". So something like an assault gets to fire more/bigger weapons at once.

[Nightshade24]

Lightfoot, on 15 March 2015 - 09:30 PM, said:

So why aren't Clan ER Large included? They are about the same as Inner Sphere ER large except hotter, longer duration. 2 points more damage, but 2 more heat which is a much greater hindrance than IS ERL's weighing one extra ton.

I think you are over-nerfing Clan tech due to the Closed Mechlab. I can go along with the locked Engine, but that is all at this point. IS ERL's with no Ghost Heat for three when they are actually better than Clan ERL's once DHS 1.4's poor cooling is figured in just made me realize it. I think you are trying to balance Clan Tech on the Mad Cat and Dire Wolf's abilities. If so allow more equipment changes in the Clan Mechlab so the other Clan Mechs can have those modifications as well.

One overlooked fact is that omnipod changes are actually field modifications that do not require Mechlab. Mechlab is a device created in each MechWarrior game that allows equipment changes (and weapon changes for non-omnimechs). There is no Mechlab in Battle Tech. So you can't say these changes are not canon for Clan mechs when the standard mech changes in Mechlab are also not canon to the same degree.

That's all, but I think at some point all the Clan mechs should be able to use the modifications of the Timber Wolf and Dire Wolf since that seems to be the point of Clan vs Inner Sphere balance. I don't intend to always play Clan in CW either. This is just a personal beta test for me and some of these Clan mechs are, well really bad. No apparent balancing at all.



.

mechlab changes are cannon.

but it's like 10 million c-bills to make ... say... a centurion to lose a LRM 10 for an SRM 6.

[Matthew Ace]

IS Large lasers of all types was mentioned to have GH change made permanent coming on the March 17th patch but nothing was mentioned in patch notes nor announced.

Can anyone from PGI confirm?