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So Many Factions Depending On Bribery.


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#21 C E Dwyer

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 07:04 AM

View PostKjudoon, on 16 February 2015 - 03:08 AM, said:

Right now LP rewards are goodies that are open to all, encourage faction flipping in a scavenger hunt format and try to get players to play as much as possible to grind and get data.

Well played PGI... well played.


Yes this was so dumb and was so obviously a crap way of doing things, you should get better rewards for staying with a house, not flipping, to gain Lp in all the factions, there should have been special rewards much better than standard, that only loyalists, (regular units can get) and a slight step down for mercs that are on perm contract.

But as usual PGI missed the bus.

#22 C E Dwyer

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 07:08 AM

View PostKjudoon, on 15 February 2015 - 11:38 PM, said:

Its the way the world goes round since loyalists aren't the heart of this game.

but they should be

#23 CyclonerM

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 07:09 AM

Loyalty rewards discouraging loyalty.. LOL. GG PGI

View PostCathy, on 16 February 2015 - 07:08 AM, said:

but they should be

Indeed.

#24 J0anna

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 08:27 AM

View PostAlmond Brown, on 16 February 2015 - 06:57 AM, said:



Again, PGI wanted to have longer Contracts (initial numbers were way longer) but the Community "booo'd" that idea out of existence. So, PGI does what the Community wants and takes BS heat after. You want Merc's to stay with faction longer, promote locking them into longer term contracts and see how that goes.
Gotta be tough when PGI gives the Community what it wants and then gets ragged on... Typical I guess. No way to placate a spoiled child.


Why don't you read what I wrote instead of what you think I wrote. Bottom line, I'm fine with shorter contracts, but there are downsides to it - you don't get the better LP rewards. Make higher LP rewards much better, and make killing the enemy much harsher.

In my example, lets say I'm level 6 with Kurita, but then I join CSJ and kill 20 snakes in the week, along with 20 turrets and have 10 wins. If I rejoin Kurita, I would still be level 6, but would have to overcome -7000 LP's (in addition to the normal number of LP's required) before I could advance to level 7 ((20x150) + (20x50) + (10x300)). Bottom line, you could switch as much as you want, but you would never gain high rank (and get the improved rewards I suggest for higher ranks). Don't punish the mercs that switch around, but don't reward them either.

#25 PappySmurf

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 08:51 AM

I tell you CW Faction warfare is not good came back to do the challenge for the mech bay etc.it took forever because BAD HSR & servers.So I try CW took me like 15+ minutes to find a match picking a defend pop up button then when I get into the match it lasts like all of 5 minutes and I made like 70k Cbills nothing XP or GXP or loyalty points really so I just wasted 40 minutes of time for nothing.

If I wanted to waste 40+ minutes of my time I would do it in SOLO pug MM only avg 60k a battle every 5-10 minutes. So basicly in 40 min I would get 4 games at 240k+ Cbills + XP+GXP. So why waste my time on CW? for nothing? If I would have made like 300K+ Cbills+XP=GXP+Some loyalty points that were worth something maybe it would be worth the wait + some dam fun.

The whole stupid match was 1 12 man Clan team running up the same gate and killing all of us in like 1-2 minutes and the game over in 5 minutes tops where is the fun in that? PGI needs to rethink CW and what it means to play a faction and have some fun in there game overall and faction warfare.

#1 make the matches longer by beefing up defenses.
#2 make the games longer solo-CW by making the mechs tougher.
#3 make the earning Cbills-XP-GXP-Loyalty points better 50-80%
#4 Optimize your game it is so bad.
#5 get better servers so much lag and inconsistency in solo and CW matches.
#6 place a chat lobby for CW recruiting and new player help in the front of your UI2.0
#7 free mech bays let players pay for bling items and mechs etc. limits what my drop deck in CW could be and trials suck.
#8 trial/stock Vs trial/stock mode for CW and solo mm battles.

I have to say I Miss the MSN GAMMING ZONE and the LEAGUES for Solaris 1v1-12v12 and stock matches and planetary leagues.MWO needs to go back to its roots back to a MechWarrior-BattleTech game that was fun not some grind to nowhere that is not rewarding for old or new players where all it does is drive more players to other games.

#26 MischiefSC

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 09:47 AM

The 50k cbill bonus is largely insignificant. Don't deploy 1 UAV. There you go.

I get that it's beta but the problem is if you play like it doesn't matter you destroy the value of testing and feedback.

You want CW to turn out well, play the beta like you would live and give feedback accordingly. Otherwise live will happen, tons of stuff will not be correct and you'll be dealing with it then instead of now.

#27 Felio

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 03:01 PM

And yet people complain we are allowed to switch factions all willy-nilly. And I even think I read that changing that is something on the table. I hate to think what would happen to queues.

Really we need to do more. Advertise these bribes in-game and show a "for shorter queues pick ____ faction" like we do for weight classes in the other queues. I mean, it might well be a lie because choosing an unpopular faction may mean never finding a match, but it's worth a try.

#28 Kjudoon

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 05:50 PM

View PostCathy, on 16 February 2015 - 07:08 AM, said:

but they should be

I never believed that it shouldn't be. But to do that, the entire loyalty system as is would have to be dumped, a new dynamic system created and a secondary economy based on deeds and player behavior would have to be installed on the moral codes of soldiery where the loyal and effective are rewarded one way, the mercs and... well... transient thugs of war get rewarded another.

A Loyalist should never have to worry about silly things like repairing and rearming his mech. Of course, he also is paid garbage. His loyalty and aligned philosophy and the satisfaction gained from pushing his master's, not employer's, agenda should form a large part of his reward. They also get the glamorous work and the easy work.

A Merc gets money, the dirty jobs and the quiet jobs that can be blamed on them because they are politically sensitive if not destructive to be done by someone with a reputation. See that's the key word. Mercs can have loyalty, but not a good reputation compared to loyalist troups. You can't send the 101st Airborne in to a politically dirty situation. You CAN send in a bunch of mercs to do black ops that can't be traced back to you.

The missions differ.
The pay differs
The roles differ.

You want to be a hero for a cause, go Loyalist. Get paid in celebratory adulation and crumbs from your master's table. Maybe some day after being a loyal retainer, you can sit at that same table.

Be a merc, and you will never be sung about, never get the easy jobs but always will be paid well because your love is for the money, not a cause. You will never sit in the hall of a king or queen but you will never be ruled by one either.

The problem is that this game, and PGI's thinking that we know of has been based around the all-mighty C-Bill. Nothing more. We have hints they're thinking bigger, a third currency known as Loyalty Points. But it's been set up wrong here. Now it's a contest to see how far you're willing to push a ball with your nose or how many pies you can eat. There is no going backwards, only fame, no infamy. Only rewards, no penalties. Just endless carrots that quickly lose their meaning and taste beyond what they may have in real monetary value or access to more CBills for in game toys.

No. This isn't how it should work if you want to create a dynamic, ever present incentive for both the loyalist and merc. A merc must receive the bulk of his rewards in CBills... UNTIL SUCH TIME.... as they prove a worthy and loyal retainer that can be trusted by time of service and effectiveness under command of a single faction, aka a 'de facto loyalist'.

Consider it like an Owner Operator for a trucker (something I know more than a fair bit about). They get paid more. They drive how they want to drive, and where they want to go. BUT... they also have full responsibility for keeping their operation running. You don't take jobs or don't do them well, you're done. Out of business. I work with a few drivers who used to be O/Os who had life deal them harsh breaks. Now they drive for a company doing shuttle work, building themselves back up to be an O/O again, or leave after a time to join a company as a company driver. All of them who enjoyed doing the O/O route will return to it at some point. The freedom and control is the thing.

That is a solid basis for what PGI needs to do with mercs. You fail and go broke, you find a faction to hire you on as a loyalist and allow you to fill up your coffers again till you can go O/O as a unit. That ability to fail, then pick yourself up again is critical for this whole system working.

On the other hand, you job flip and tick off all 10 employers out there... guess what? You're now a pirate. The ultimate freedom, and probably not doing the honest day's work to keep yourself fed and in Autocannon shells. This needs to be added for those players who want total freedom and have no problem with infamy and being hunted.

Oh but I could ramble on for so long on this.

The TL:DR of it all.

1. Fixed, un-losable loyalty points kill a whole third economy necessary for a true loyalty system that rewards honorable servitude. Gains for one faction should include losses from another. These LP rewards should be nearly unattainable by those who switch factions, have access to things made unpurchasable any other way.

2. Consider a trucker Owner/Operator form of risk/reward

3. There are three levels of loyalty and game style: Loyalist, Merc and Pirate. We need the factionless, deniable, always hunted criminal pirates to complete this system.

Edited by Kjudoon, 16 February 2015 - 05:51 PM.


#29 Triordinant

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 09:40 PM

View PostDamon Mattlov, on 15 February 2015 - 11:35 PM, said:

It seems crazy.

It's crazier than you think. To see the root of the problem, there is some history. A couple of years ago, IGP (PGI's former publisher) decided to increase revenues by letting players play the Clans and selling them Clan 'mechs. Because of that, most MWO players now have both IS and Clan 'mechs and many of them paid real world cash (just like IGP wanted) to get them. In order to let those players use the IS and Clan 'mechs they bought, PGI had to let them switch factions at will. That's pretty much why we have an alternate BattleTech Universe in CW where Mercs far outnumber House units -which is the opposite of the "real" BattleTech Universe. What's really crazy is those Mercs are richer than Blake because they can switch from IS 'mechs to Clan 'mechs and back at will. :lol:

Could it have been done better? What if CW started a year and a half ago, but it was set some time in the 3025 to 3049 era? It would have the original 5 great Houses of the Inner Sphere as factions. There would be repair and rearm, but only for Mercs. All new players would start in House units of their choice. Once a player gets a high enough Rank in his House unit, he has the option of joining a Merc unit and/or competing in Solaris.

To pay for repair and rearm, Mercs would have to negotiate contracts with the Houses and the best Merc units would get the best pay, just like in the "real" BattleTech Universe. Being the best requires organization and training, which is something today's top comp teams are already doing. As an added incentive, Mercs would get first dibs to Lostech (DHS, Endo, Gauss, Pulse, etc.) as it slowly gets added to the game because in the Houses such tech usually goes to the nobles first (who are NPCs). The end result would be House units slugging it out like in the Succession Wars, but using elite Mercs for the really important (and high-paying) battles -again, just like in the "real" BattleTech Universe.

At some point, all the IS 'mechs and weapons would be balanced with each other. Suddenly, the Clan Invasion takes place via co-op PvE scenarios. Eventually, players would get to use captured Clan tech and Clan 'mechs -but only against the invaders. A "Warden vs. Crusader" PvP campaign could also be set up for Clan vs. Clan player battles. Meanwhile, IS vs IS PvP and Solaris continues alongside IS vs Clan PvE. There would be no need to nerf Clan 'mechs as severely as they are now because player-piloted Clan 'mechs will only ever face other Clan 'mechs whether it's PvE or PvP.

Edited by Triordinant, 16 February 2015 - 10:05 PM.


#30 wanderer

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 11:14 PM

Loyalty- whether a "House" or a "Merc" unit needs to increase rewards.

Yeah, a base contract reward is nice. House rank should act as a C-bill multiplier for wins or losses, and go bye-bye if you switch factions. This would also mean sticking with a faction in trouble leads to increasing rewards as not only is the base contract reward higher, but loyalty multipliers would make that reward even sweeter.

A faction needs a foundation. Loyalty should be rewarded in more than a simple, brief reward with each rankup.

#31 Almond Brown

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 09:57 AM

View PostMoenrg, on 16 February 2015 - 08:27 AM, said:

Why don't you read what I wrote instead of what you think I wrote. Bottom line, I'm fine with shorter contracts, but there are downsides to it - you don't get the better LP rewards. Make higher LP rewards much better, and make killing the enemy much harsher.

In my example, lets say I'm level 6 with Kurita, but then I join CSJ and kill 20 snakes in the week, along with 20 turrets and have 10 wins. If I rejoin Kurita, I would still be level 6, but would have to overcome -7000 LP's (in addition to the normal number of LP's required) before I could advance to level 7 ((20x150) + (20x50) + (10x300)). Bottom line, you could switch as much as you want, but you would never gain high rank (and get the improved rewards I suggest for higher ranks). Don't punish the mercs that switch around, but don't reward them either.


I read it, was just stating fact. A longer Contract minimum would provide players with better Ranks by default. Penalties are all well and good until someone finds they want to move (reasons - no of which PGI can control) but need to take a hard hit to hard earned LP.

It is a game and is supposed to be FUN. Losing LP or getting locked in for extended periods is neither, despite what the Loyalist may think is best for the game.

Edited by Almond Brown, 17 February 2015 - 09:57 AM.


#32 Necromantion

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 08:08 AM

View PostNecromantion, on 18 February 2015 - 08:06 AM, said:

NEWS FLASH:
This is an FPS game, not an RPG.
Posted Image

Now that that is out and in the clear, every single lore-thumper really needs to get over the "BUT THIS DIDNT HAPPEN IN TABLE TOP/BOOKS" and look at them attempting to balance around this being a PvP game, and online multiplayer FPS game. The majority of whining about this game that I see on the forums revolves around this exact scenario and people not being able to wrap their heads around it.

Once you people start looking at things in light of this and cede to admit to yourself that this is actually the case and were not in some linear RPG game where everything is determined by lore you may just want to... you know... play the game and have fun?

If the sole way for you to derive fun from the game is roleplaying and RP martyring for your faction rather than approaching this like an FPS game, joining up with a unit that you have fun with and enjoy playing with and just play the game you will maybe see that things aren't so bad.



Also, this is Beta still.
Posted Image

Things are going to be changing and in flux until PGI feels that they are balanced around a good FPS experience, hence the word Beta.

The way things are currently set up does not have enough incentive to be loyalists indeed, especially with things capping out at level 20 rewards and the fact that you can swap to a new faction and start the grind for all kinds of nice goodies like MC/Cockpit items/Cbills/Mechbays/GXP and the like.

Did you ever think that that is perhaps what PGI wanted? Maybe because its an FPS game and not an RPG?

So please, please consider this when posting. The whole "but thats not canon, thats not how it happened in the books, etc" arguments are quite invalid.

This is not an RPG.


For all the lore/RP mongers on this thread so far.

Edited by Necromantion, 18 February 2015 - 08:09 AM.


#33 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 05:50 AM

View PostDamon Mattlov, on 15 February 2015 - 11:35 PM, said:

Do people really need to be paid double to actually show up and fight for Liao/Kurita/FRR?

It seems crazy.

It seems par for the Course when you are dealing with Mercs. ;)

#34 Apnu

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Posted 15 May 2015 - 08:37 AM

View PostTriordinant, on 16 February 2015 - 09:40 PM, said:

It's crazier than you think. To see the root of the problem, there is some history. A couple of years ago, IGP (PGI's former publisher) decided to increase revenues by letting players play the Clans and selling them Clan 'mechs. Because of that, most MWO players now have both IS and Clan 'mechs and many of them paid real world cash (just like IGP wanted) to get them. In order to let those players use the IS and Clan 'mechs they bought, PGI had to let them switch factions at will. That's pretty much why we have an alternate BattleTech Universe in CW where Mercs far outnumber House units -which is the opposite of the "real" BattleTech Universe. What's really crazy is those Mercs are richer than Blake because they can switch from IS 'mechs to Clan 'mechs and back at will. :lol:

Could it have been done better? What if CW started a year and a half ago, but it was set some time in the 3025 to 3049 era? It would have the original 5 great Houses of the Inner Sphere as factions. There would be repair and rearm, but only for Mercs. All new players would start in House units of their choice. Once a player gets a high enough Rank in his House unit, he has the option of joining a Merc unit and/or competing in Solaris.

To pay for repair and rearm, Mercs would have to negotiate contracts with the Houses and the best Merc units would get the best pay, just like in the "real" BattleTech Universe. Being the best requires organization and training, which is something today's top comp teams are already doing. As an added incentive, Mercs would get first dibs to Lostech (DHS, Endo, Gauss, Pulse, etc.) as it slowly gets added to the game because in the Houses such tech usually goes to the nobles first (who are NPCs). The end result would be House units slugging it out like in the Succession Wars, but using elite Mercs for the really important (and high-paying) battles -again, just like in the "real" BattleTech Universe.

At some point, all the IS 'mechs and weapons would be balanced with each other. Suddenly, the Clan Invasion takes place via co-op PvE scenarios. Eventually, players would get to use captured Clan tech and Clan 'mechs -but only against the invaders. A "Warden vs. Crusader" PvP campaign could also be set up for Clan vs. Clan player battles. Meanwhile, IS vs IS PvP and Solaris continues alongside IS vs Clan PvE. There would be no need to nerf Clan 'mechs as severely as they are now because player-piloted Clan 'mechs will only ever face other Clan 'mechs whether it's PvE or PvP.


Somebody linked this in another thread on 5/15/15, but I'm kicking this because its awesome.

This is, basically how I hoped MWO would have gone. I think the community would forgive PGI if they decided to do this today. I few things would have to change, but not much. Namely every player would have to have two "pilots" one with IS tech, one with clan tech to make this happen.





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