123 replies to this topic

[CyclonerM]

CoffiNail, on 28 February 2015 - 08:20 AM, said:

IIRC it is also, stay in YOUR weapon range and not the enemies... or a lot of Viper-B pilots would be dezgra by now.

So basically, it would just mean "do not run away from the fight", quiaff?

[CoffiNail]

CyclonerM, on 01 March 2015 - 02:10 AM, said:

So basically, it would just mean "do not run away from the fight", quiaff?

Well, to be honest. Zellbrigen is basically and simply a duel between two warrior to decide who is the better skilled.

The whole reason of Zellbrigen was because Audrey Kerensky was killed due to him getting jumped. Nicholas knew if he had to fight those who jumped his brother one on one, Audrey would have won. With Zellbrigen being in the mold of Clan Warriors Nicholas hoped that it would mean no great warrior would have to die to dishonourable ways..

I also like to think of it on those moments you find a lone opponent on a map away from other team members and you start slugging it out. You have had a good 1 or 2 minutes of fighting, slowly wearing each other down... then someone else romps in to the fray and either takes your target or worse, new opponent takes you out.

[CyclonerM]

CoffiNail, on 01 March 2015 - 07:09 AM, said:

I also like to think of it on those moments you find a lone opponent on a map away from other team members and you start slugging it out. You have had a good 1 or 2 minutes of fighting, slowly wearing each other down... then someone else romps in to the fray and either takes your target or worse, new opponent takes you out.

Absolutely

A while ago i did my first test drop with a modified Ice Ferret; there were a Cicada and a Panther sniping at our backs (espeicially mine ) so i decided to turn around and engage them. While the rest of the team was getting slaughtered, i had a nice fight against them (they were not always togheter, so i was able to engage them one vs one for a while). I managed to kill them though My best match in an Ice Ferret, and i never managed to do it again

[Jaroth Corbett]

Who is Audrey? It is Andery.

[CoffiNail]

Jaroth Corbett, on 01 March 2015 - 08:55 AM, said:

Who is Audrey? It is Andery.

Always getting that name confused

[Jaroth Corbett]

We are only human, even if we are of superior stock.

Edited by Jaroth Corbett, 02 March 2015 - 10:52 PM.

[RedDevil]

I have a question about CJF. What was the deal behind the Mongol doctrine? I guess I should read the books, but what was the perceived benefit of going so extreme?

[Deadfire]

reddevil, on 01 March 2015 - 09:43 PM, said:

I have a question about CJF. What was the deal behind the Mongol doctrine? I guess I should read the books, but what was the perceived benefit of going so extreme?

Historically it was a doctrine the Mongols used due to them not having the military might other forces, like the Romans at the time. Mongols themselves were nomadic and tribal, whose warfare was limited almost to small scale engagements like skirmishes and raids. So the doctrine made them take the path of least resistance and preserve as many troops as possible. This meant resorting to terror tactics like showing up to a city and slaughtering almost everyone. Then they allow the tale of the slaughter to spread and when they show up somewhere, allow the city to surrender before the fighting even began.

Back to BT, while this isn't exactly what Malvina does, it's close enough. If you can't destroy an army on the field, you destroy their will to fight. How it is protrayed however has been largely dependant of who the author of the story is. Ultimately, Malvina wants to scour the galaxy of all human life, this includes everyone that follows her and herself.

[Raveniel]

reddevil, on 01 March 2015 - 09:43 PM, said:

I have a question about CJF. What was the deal behind the Mongol doctrine? I guess I should read the books, but what was the perceived benefit of going so extreme?

It started because Jana Pryde and Beckett Malthus encouraged strife between two philosophies. Basically they both wanted to renew conflict with the Inner Sphere and go back to taking planets, but one side believed they should build up and go about it in a more cautious manner, and the other felt they should just go for it since they were Clan Jade Falcon, and who could stand before their might?

The Mongol Doctrine came from within the more aggressive faction, adopting some elements of the Horses version, but looking to the more brutal aspects of subjugation that the actual Mongols had. Parts of it flow with the Clan ideal of limited warfare in a twisted way, since if you are so brutal to your enemies, that others immediately surrender their worlds to you, then you've achieved more with less civilian and warrior death.

[Seth]

We can plainly see the advantages of having a 'Mech that can torso twist vs one that cannot from games like MW3 and MW4. MWO has simply redesigned 'Mechs like the Adder, Nova, and Cauldron Born to be able to torso twist. What canonical advantage/disadvantage was their for not being able to torso twist, if any.

[RedDevil]

Still on the Mongol doctrine, did CJF have a small standing army at that time similar to the Mongols of old? Also, for what reason would the writers make Malvina want to kill all humans? Was that actually made cannon or is that just hyperbole among us BT fans?

[pbiggz]

Question: is there data on the clan mongoose touman outside of the few camo schemes available in megamek? If so can you point me to it?

[QueenBlade]

pbiggz, on 02 March 2015 - 01:11 PM, said:

Question: is there data on the clan mongoose touman outside of the few camo schemes available in megamek? If so can you point me to it?

http://web.archive.o...h/clans/cm.html

I'll see what else I can find

Found it:
http://gaudring.trip.../home/id12.html

Edited by QueenBlade, 02 March 2015 - 01:21 PM.

[Gremlich Johns]

CoffiNail, on 01 March 2015 - 07:09 AM, said:

I also like to think of it on those moments you find a lone opponent on a map away from other team members and you start slugging it out. You have had a good 1 or 2 minutes of fighting, slowly wearing each other down...

I did this against a guy identified, I kid you not, as "Khan Clan Nova Cat".

He was in a Cicada and I was in a Scrow-D. We were dancing around near another of his teammates on HPG (a DIRE, who I killed) and then he scampers away (luring me I think, so he could get the kill) to one of the wall's gates outside. He ran out then turns around as soon as I exit and begins to engage me again. We danced some more, but I prevailed, finishing him off with 4xsmpls. That was, I think, an unintentional Zell.

[LastKhan]

Gremlich Johns, on 02 March 2015 - 01:52 PM, said:

I did this against a guy identified, I kid you not, as "Khan Clan Nova Cat".

ಠ_ಠ

[_Comrade_]

reddevil, on 02 March 2015 - 12:58 PM, said:

Still on the Mongol doctrine, did CJF have a small standing army at that time similar to the Mongols of old? Also, for what reason would the writers make Malvina want to kill all humans? Was that actually made cannon or is that just hyperbole among us BT fans?

because Malvina is crazy, and yes it is canon to quote Alfred from the Dark Knight "some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn" (or woman in this case)

Edited by Grimwill, 02 March 2015 - 03:52 PM.

[Jaroth Corbett]

reddevil, on 01 March 2015 - 09:43 PM, said:

I have a question about CJF. What was the deal behind the Mongol doctrine? I guess I should read the books, but what was the perceived benefit of going so extreme?

Raveniel, on 01 March 2015 - 11:19 PM, said:

It started because Jana Pryde and Beckett Malthus encouraged strife between two philosophies. Basically they both wanted to renew conflict with the Inner Sphere and go back to taking planets, but one side believed they should build up and go about it in a more cautious manner, and the other felt they should just go for it since they were Clan Jade Falcon, and who could stand before their might?

The Mongol Doctrine came from within the more aggressive faction, adopting some elements of the Horses version, but looking to the more brutal aspects of subjugation that the actual Mongols had. Parts of it flow with the Clan ideal of limited warfare in a twisted way, since if you are so brutal to your enemies, that others immediately surrender their worlds to you, then you've achieved more with less civilian and warrior death.

Actually it started after Malvina's brother Alexander got killed. On her sick bed she told Beckett Malthus that she rejected the Clan way of doing things. That is where it started. The novel was Flight of the Falcons IIRC. At work now, so i cannot confirm. Will do so when I get home.

Edited by Jaroth Corbett, 02 March 2015 - 10:52 PM.

[Deadfire]

Gremlich Johns, on 02 March 2015 - 01:52 PM, said:

I did this against a guy identified, I kid you not, as "Khan Clan Nova Cat".

He was in a Cicada and I was in a Scrow-D. We were dancing around near another of his teammates on HPG (a DIRE, who I killed) and then he scampers away (luring me I think, so he could get the kill) to one of the wall's gates outside. He ran out then turns around as soon as I exit and begins to engage me again. We danced some more, but I prevailed, finishing him off with 4xsmpls. That was, I think, an unintentional Zell.

Incorrect, Zell would mean you engaged with Warriors not losing sight of each other.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Seth, on 02 March 2015 - 10:45 AM, said:

We can plainly see the advantages of having a 'Mech that can torso twist vs one that cannot from games like MW3 and MW4. MWO has simply redesigned 'Mechs like the Adder, Nova, and Cauldron Born to be able to torso twist. What canonical advantage/disadvantage was their for not being able to torso twist, if any.

Not wanting this question to get lost - so I am quoting it.

[Jaroth Corbett]

I am not sure what he means though. I played both MW3 & MW4 & you could torso twist in those games. In fact in MW4 the Mad Dog could twist 360 degrees & the Summoner could twist 180 degrees.

Edited by Jaroth Corbett, 02 March 2015 - 10:52 PM.