14 replies to this topic

[Clint Steel]

I've been messing around with a lot of clan mechs lately and was wondering why they get the option to take out arm actuators and IS doesn't?

Just got my Panther and Enforcer and was playing with builds, and the Enforcer would be an interesting brawler if equipped with an AC20 but since its stuck having the (lower/upper?) arm actuator it won't fit.

Would letting IS mechs choose to have or not to have the arm actuators like the Clans can break balance? Or, is it just a Lore thing? AC20s are decent, but not the weapon they were back in beta.

[FupDup]

It's an Omnimech thing.

If we gave IS Battlemechs that choice, most people would probably rip out their hands for more critical slots when possible. Many might also remove LAA for the same reason, or at least remove 1 LAA and keep the other.

[El Bandito]

I would rip out the arm actuators of my Dragon Slayer and chuck in dual UAC5s in a heart beat. Saves me a weapon module slot.

Edited by El Bandito, 18 February 2015 - 08:28 AM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

It's not an OmniMech thing, it's a PGI thing to restrict what can be put on a Mech. OmniMechs don't usually have hand/lower actuators, it's a reflection of the Clan Warrior disdain for physical combat in a Mech carried to it's fullest extent, so the OmniMechs SOMETIMES get the option to remove/add them in MWO, not all of them do.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Clans are designed to have dozen chassis and 1,000,000 loadouts using omni-technology.
IS takes the opposite approach and has 1,000,000 chassis for a dozen builds.

[DONTOR]

Are OP and allow ACs / Gauss to track targets. Was that the right answer?

[Brody319]

remove all lower and hand acculators from centurion A1
new and better Yen-lo-wang. Has same hardpoints + missiles

Hero sales get ******.

[Clint Steel]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 18 February 2015 - 09:30 AM, said:

Clans are designed to have dozen chassis and 1,000,000 loadouts using omni-technology.
IS takes the opposite approach and has 1,000,000 chassis for a dozen builds.

That seems a bit inefficient

Brody319, on 18 February 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

remove all lower and hand acculators from centurion A1
new and better Yen-lo-wang. Has same hardpoints + missiles

Hero sales get ******.

I have a Wang, the reason I got it was because of the extra MC, that another Mech could do the same thing doesn't really bother me. The A wouldn't really be able to do more, since it you don't have the tonnage to run ac20 missiles and energy effectively, it would be versatile since it could either be built like a Wang or an AH, but quirks could even that out, or even torso twist speed/limits.

It seems the only mechs that really are effected by this are suboptimal mechs anyway, and this could be a little buff to them.

Though in like of the de-quirkening, PGI doesn't seem to want Mech to all be competitive to the same level.

[SpiralFace]

Kristov Kerensky, on 18 February 2015 - 08:29 AM, said:

It's not an OmniMech thing, it's a PGI thing to restrict what can be put on a Mech. OmniMechs don't usually have hand/lower actuators, it's a reflection of the Clan Warrior disdain for physical combat in a Mech carried to it's fullest extent, so the OmniMechs SOMETIMES get the option to remove/add them in MWO, not all of them do.

Nope.

It is a standard construction rule that is a core part of traditional BT that Omni's lower and hand actuators are pod mounted. But due to this, Autocannons, PPC's, and Gauss riles must mount themselves to the lower actuator slot preventing them from taking lower or hand actuators. (Which puts them at a CLEAR disadvantage in Melee within Battletech proper.)

PGI adapted the pure construction rules present for omnimechs. Look it up in the tech manual. All the rules and restrictions PGI presents are the "purest" interpretation of the battletech construction rules out of any Mechwarrior title. (no engine modifications, locked equipment, etc. With only the armor rules "fudged" for their own gameplay.)

IS will eventually get their own Omnimechs that will have similar rule-sets. Although it remains to be seen how hard limited their fixed equipment will be. (The first batch of IS omni's had hard wired "standard" heat sinks.)

*Edit*

Clan's "dislike" close combat. They frown upon it, but don't outright shun it. And they are far from bellow using it when it suits them though. Natasha Kerensky was killed in "honorable combat" by a swift kick to the face of her Direwolf followed by a JJ blast, the Jade phoenix trilogy has Aidan and co. using close combat (especially DFA's) whenever it suited their need. Vlad has been described as using his legs to trip up mechs before blasting them in the face with his T-wolf, and the Jags have been known for their "berzerker rage" that sees them rip mechs apart in melee when they feel their opponents are beneath them and not worthy of combat as equals. (which is quite a lot.)

Its totally false that Omni's don't use double arm and hand actuators when they wish to. (Prime Stormcrows and Nova's would like to have a word with you.) And while the clans claim that its beneath them, anyone that is familiar with the fiction knows that this is something that they contradict themselves on QUITE often. So its more like a general disdain then an outright abandonment of the practice.

Edited by SpiralFace, 18 February 2015 - 11:11 AM.

[Deathlike]

All I can say this it having it changeable would be akin to allowing AC20s on any mech with ballistic arms.

I'm not sure if you like that kind of powercreep, but it will be the most likely result.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

I would go with rise arm ability instead, if you got actuators of course.

[Almond Brown]

The Awesome Chassis would also benefit from the ability to remove AA's. I think it would allow 2 more DHS on some builds, which would be a boon to HE on already overly hot designs.

[MauttyKoray]

Think of it this way, the connection in the Omnimechs is like a USB device. You're meant to plug and play, allowing things to basically be hot swapped: actuators, weapons, hands, etc.

A Battlemech was designed as a solid piece. Think of it like older cars, or many electronics made today. They're a solid piece that is hardwired to its components and any changes will take much work and effort, some pieces would require massive overhauls even.

[Alexandrix]

MauttyKoray, on 18 February 2015 - 12:13 PM, said:

Think of it this way, the connection in the Omnimechs is like a USB device. You're meant to plug and play, allowing things to basically be hot swapped: actuators, weapons, hands, etc.

A Battlemech was designed as a solid piece. Think of it like older cars, or many electronics made today. They're a solid piece that is hardwired to its components and any changes will take much work and effort, some pieces would require massive overhauls even.

Funny how it's easier to swap out the engine or the ENTIRE FREAKIN SKELETAL STRUCTURE than it is to add/remove an arm actuator(for is mechs) in this game

Edited by Alexandrix, 18 February 2015 - 01:58 PM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Spiral, I know the construction rules, but the fluff for the general lack of hand/la actuators on Omni's was the disdain Clan Trueborn have for physical combat in a Mech, it's almost vulgar to them, as a general rule. The novels are obviously full of contradictions when it comes to anything about BTech, usually polar opposites with the FASA lore from the TROs, nothing new there.

Cockpits are described as cramped and close, unless the plot had need of a passenger in that cockpit for whatever reason, then suddenly, there's enough room for extra people! And lest we forget, the purposeful setting of a fusion reactor to overload and blow up to set off charges in a valley, despite lore and fluff stating repeatedly, fusion reactors don't blow up