29 replies to this topic

[Jikan]

I just bought a spider, it had a flame thrower on one arm and nothing on the other.
I upgraded some parts and got loads of more tonnage to work with so I changed the flamer to a pulse laser, saw I had more room so I thought it'd be nice to have another one on the other arm.
But nope.
How come I can change the armor plating and structural support, even change a flamethrower that uses fuel to a laser on one arm. But having one laser on each arm is impossible.
What gives?
I thought the ton limit and slots already regulate mechs, I haven't seen this in other mechwarrior games. Granted I mostly played mw4. But even there I had the freedom to chose between slug throwers and pew pew guns.
Feels like a giant leap backwards, any graphical improvements aren't really good enough to tip this in favor of progress for mechwarrior games.
The absolute least you could do is have "upgrades" available to change base mech hardpoints.

[TheCaptainJZ]

There are hardpoints limiting how many weapons and at what locations you can put on. MW4 had a hardpoint system but it also had restrictions on how big of weapons you could put. Here, it's just energy/ballistic/missile hardpoints, no size limitation (other than what crit slots allow).

Please see the "Mech Details" button to find them and their locations (add 1 for any weapons equipped. The indicator shows free hardpoints only). Also, and more importantly, see http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/

[Ace Selin]

There are Energy, Ballistic and Missile hard points and you can only fit the correct type of weapon to each slot, provided you have the tonnage and space (crit slots) available. This is done for balance so that people cant boat monstrosities and its good thing. Some people think it should be even more restrictive with sized hard points.

Perhaps take a look at clan mechs as they have omnipods (think leg, arm, torso interchangeable parts) and that does allow for changes to hard points by changing the omnipod equipped.

Personally I disagree with you and do believe having hard points is a good thing for balance in this game.

[Void Angel]

Mechwarrior games not featuring Clan Omnimechs have often had a hardpoint system to balance 'mechs more closely and increase the variety available to the player. Without hardpoints, the only difference between 'mechs of a certain weight class is their in-game geometry - this would lead either to one or two chassis of a given weight being clearly more powerful, or of there being no real difference between those Battlemechs.

Edited by Void Angel, 18 February 2015 - 05:29 PM.

[Mathius Ward]

I haven't had a chance to mess around in the mechlab, as I'm still in my trial mechs, but as Captain JZ says, It seems there are only so many weapons that can be put in a given location, and some locations have nothing at all. [I believe the Centurian's left arm is like this.]

In that case, it seems the reason for that side of the mech is to have a "shield" area of sorts, [fitting in the Centurian's case.] to absorb some fire. It also works as free space for equipment such as heatsinks and the like if things work anything like mech construction rules in Table Top.

[Wintersdark]

Overall, its important. If you could mount everything everywhere as per mw2/3/4, you end up with boating balance nightmares and mechs with no individual flavour all.

It was _bad_ in prior titles, and would remain bad now. This _is_ progress. Further, there's a damned good argument that we should have sizes (s,m,l) on the hard points as well, further limiting what can go there, but that's another discussion.

[Jikan]

Wish I knew about the clan mechs before. Guess it's back to the grind.
Personally I don't see it as a huge deal to be able to change around hardpoints.
Having the ability to do so wouldn't really make all mechs the same, since weapons don't change movement. And there are jump jets and I'm sure other mech specific functions that would differentiate them.
That there is no set size limit is a bit of a half truth. I doubt you can put the largest rocket pack in a spider if you want to fit everything else you need. If you could i wound't like it, just seems absurd. Have they even modeled that option?

I just don't see how limiting my guns to one arm makes sense. The other arm is completely bare. Other versions have stuff on the left arm, but mine can't. It ***** up my symmetry.
This completely ruined the pimp my ride vibe I had going until I came across this.

[Mathius Ward]

Jikan, on 18 February 2015 - 06:17 PM, said:

Wish I knew about the clan mechs before. Guess it's back to the grind.
Personally I don't see it as a huge deal to be able to change around hardpoints.
Having the ability to do so wouldn't really make all mechs the same, since weapons don't change movement. And there are jump jets and I'm sure other mech specific functions that would differentiate them.
That there is no set size limit is a bit of a half truth. I doubt you can put the largest rocket pack in a spider if you want to fit everything else you need. If you could i wound't like it, just seems absurd. Have they even modeled that option?

I just don't see how limiting my guns to one arm makes sense. The other arm is completely bare. Other versions have stuff on the left arm, but mine can't. It ***** up my symmetry.
This completely ruined the pimp my ride vibe I had going until I came across this.

I don't know how you played most of the other games, but most people in the old games loaded up on pulse lasers. and shot for legs. Thankfully lasers are DoT in MWO so far. But the concept is still the same, lots of small weapons for high damage potential and low heat. You just boat as many as you can while keeping cool. [which frankly, seems like what the Firestarters are doing in MWO]

Unlimited customization is bad, it allows for huge imbalance. This system seems good so far, not perfect, but good.

[Deckard Caine Sender]

Can you put the steering wheel in your car on the other side? In the back seat? Think of the hardpoints as being where there is power and control circuits for a type of weapon.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Well, welcome.

Lets see what we can do!

The SDR-5D is actually an okay mech to begin with from the available Inner Sphere Light mechs. ECM is good to get for it.

Here's a build you can try that keeps the standard engine with the big expense being the DHS upgrade (tax). And it is a tough little critter that can survive losing a torso.

Eventually if you like running the 5D, consider trying three MPLs with an XL engine, often the XL 255 is recommended since it has its 10 DHS inside the engine at full strength, since external DHS like in the build I linked are weaker in MWO.

I can explain more later, just ask us what you want to learn about first.

[TheCaptainJZ]

OP, you should know that even though there are no hardpoints on that second arm, there is another hardpoint on that mech somewhere. It sounds like you have the 5D variant. There are 2 energy hardpoints in the right arm and one in the center torso. See http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/ for all mech hardpoints and much more.

You should also notice that each variant within a chassis has a different configuration of hardpoints. The intent was to make each variant not just each chassis unique in some way. Recent quirk additions have increased this diversity quite a bit.

This ties back into the mech xp and leveling (skill unlocking) system. You have to level 3 different variants of one chassis through the different skills to be able to unlock the higher tiers of skills.

[Rogue Jedi]

Jikan, on 18 February 2015 - 05:07 PM, said:

I just bought a spider, it had a flame thrower on one arm and nothing on the other.
I upgraded some parts and got loads of more tonnage to work with so I changed the flamer to a pulse laser, saw I had more room so I thought it'd be nice to have another one on the other arm.
But nope.
How come I can change the armor plating and structural support, even change a flamethrower that uses fuel to a laser on one arm. But having one laser on each arm is impossible.
What gives?
I thought the ton limit and slots already regulate mechs, I haven't seen this in other mechwarrior games. Granted I mostly played mw4. But even there I had the freedom to chose between slug throwers and pew pew guns.
Feels like a giant leap backwards, any graphical improvements aren't really good enough to tip this in favor of progress for mechwarrior games.
The absolute least you could do is have "upgrades" available to change base mech hardpoints.

your SDR-5D (and it must be the 5d with energy on only 1 arm) has a total of 3 energy hardpoints, 2 on the Right Arm and 1 in the Center Torso, there are another 3 Spiders,

the SDR-5K has 2 ballistic hardpoints in each arm and 1 energy in the center torso, it works great with 4 Machine Guns and an ER Large Laser

the SDR-5V has only 2 energy hardpoints in the center torso but can carry more jumpjets than any other Mech and has a high engine cap which I think makes it as fast as any other Mech in the game

the SDR-A Hero Mech (can only be purchased with MC which you buy with real money) has 1 ballistic and 1 energy hardpoint in each arm, as well as a missile hardpoint in the center torso

[JC Daxion]

Jikan, on 18 February 2015 - 06:17 PM, said:

Wish I knew about the clan mechs before. Guess it's back to the grind.

i would not start with clan mechs... They end up costing you tons more than the IS mechs. As for your spider, there are only 4 variants, that are kinda limited, many other mechs have much more variety in what you can mount and were,

check out the smurfy link someone posted for an easy to read guide about what mechs have weapons you can mount and where.. But if you want to use a pair of pulse lasers, there is one spider that you can do that with, but they are in the center torso.

Another option would be to move up to the 35 ton mechs, which are more flexible. I personally love my ravens, but fire starters and jenners are good mechs too. Another option is to move up to mediums, and try out cicada's, cents, or even HBK's the latter two are very flexible. The cicada is more of a light mech, and semi limited for the most part but great fun.

[Tarogato]

Deckard Caine, on 18 February 2015 - 07:22 PM, said:

Can you put the steering wheel in your car on the other side? In the back seat? Think of the hardpoints as being where there is power and control circuits for a type of weapon.

[Lily from animove]

Jikan, on 18 February 2015 - 05:07 PM, said:

I just bought a spider, it had a flame thrower on one arm and nothing on the other.
I upgraded some parts and got loads of more tonnage to work with so I changed the flamer to a pulse laser, saw I had more room so I thought it'd be nice to have another one on the other arm.
But nope.
How come I can change the armor plating and structural support, even change a flamethrower that uses fuel to a laser on one arm. But having one laser on each arm is impossible.
What gives?
I thought the ton limit and slots already regulate mechs, I haven't seen this in other mechwarrior games. Granted I mostly played mw4. But even there I had the freedom to chose between slug throwers and pew pew guns.
Feels like a giant leap backwards, any graphical improvements aren't really good enough to tip this in favor of progress for mechwarrior games.
The absolute least you could do is have "upgrades" available to change base mech hardpoints.

because this is MWO, and its a bit different than some of the older MW games which allowed you total free mech customisation. They stick more closer to the lore rules of construction.

[SnagaDance]

Lily from animove, on 19 February 2015 - 05:14 AM, said:

because this is MWO, and its a bit different than some of the older MW games which allowed you total free mech customisation. They stick more closer to the lore rules of construction.

Only a bit closer to lore really. Any serious BattleTech customization would require a team of tech wizards to do the work for you, with even going for a same type of weapon (energy/ballistic/missile) you had a hard and expensive time trying to put something in that was bigger than the thing it replaced (and none of these extra weapon type slots either). And changing an engine could only be done at a factory that actually produces the mech (which could very well be in enemy hands), oh and of course you could only use engine ratings that could be divided by your mech tonnage by a whole number.

[Insects]

Jikan, on 18 February 2015 - 06:17 PM, said:

Wish I knew about the clan mechs before. Guess it's back to the grind.

Clans still have limited hardpoints, you can just swap bits with other variants to achieve a lot more flexibility.
But there is a catch, their engine is not changable and some have weapons (like useless flamer) locked into hardpoints.
In some ways they are more configurable, in other ways less.

Hardpoints is a big thing in the game, its what makes all those versions of the same mech different.

Lights are pretty limited since the heavy stuff wont fit either way.
Spider is known for being very limited in its hardpoints, it is still fun because very agile and quick.
The Firestarters let you stick lasers everywhere, some machineguns in the middle but not much else ballistics really fit there.
Larger Mediums open up a lot more options. Hunchbacks are a common start, between its 5 variants you can fit a lot.
Assaults can fit all the big heavy weapons.

Also an important note: The games levelup system makes you buy 3 types of each mech to unlock all of its upgrades (like 20% less heat, 10% fire rate and speed etc). You could only basic them, but most people will take the 3 variant mastery path.

This, most valuable link makes things a lot clearer.
E Energy, B Balistics, M Misile.
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/

[YCSLiesmith]

JC Daxion, on 19 February 2015 - 03:42 AM, said:

i would not start with clan mechs... They end up costing you tons more than the IS mechs.

Whaaaa? That's wrong. They come with all the upgrades built in, they cost way less in terms of optimizing than the IS mechs. all you need is a good engine (many come with good engines) and your guns, which will not set you back at all. Clan mechs DO cost a lot but you get a lot more built in.

[Lily from animove]

SnagaDance, on 19 February 2015 - 06:29 AM, said:

Only a bit closer to lore really. Any serious BattleTech customization would require a team of tech wizards to do the work for you, with even going for a same type of weapon (energy/ballistic/missile) you had a hard and expensive time trying to put something in that was bigger than the thing it replaced (and none of these extra weapon type slots either). And changing an engine could only be done at a factory that actually produces the mech (which could very well be in enemy hands), oh and of course you could only use engine ratings that could be divided by your mech tonnage by a whole number.

Thats a load closer to lore than MW3, there any engine went in any mech (and you seeemed to have every engine at least 4x with your MFB), and any weapon could be anywhere, refitted right between the missions in zero time by your 3 MFB's and all FOR FREE, tech wizards did not even charged money. Good times xD

And Op probably comes from those games if he is sking those questions.

Edited by Lily from animove, 19 February 2015 - 07:27 AM.

[Voivode]

To the OP, as most everyone has explained, the hardpoint system is integral to balance in the game and is closely tied to the table top game (Battletech) that Mechwarrior stems from. Personally, some of the most fun I've had playing this game has come from buying a mech with odd hardpoints and figuring out how to make it work.

As for clan mechs, they are somewhat the opposite of IS mechs. Clan mechs can change out "Omnipods" which allow for customization of hard points (to a certain extent), but Clan mechs cannot change engines or things like armor type and internal structure. Both sets of mechs are customizable but in different ways.

It sounds like what you purchased was the Spider 5D, which is a pretty good mech. Here's the build I usually keep on mine, though sometimes I like to change it up for flavor. Some things to note are that it has double heat sinks (a MUST on most mechs) and ECM. If a mech can equip ECM you absolutely should equip it as ECM is a fantastic piece of equipment in this game. Additionally, all IS light mechs should be equipped with an XL engine, kind of expensive but it makes a drastic difference for the mech.

Now, there's an XP system with mechs and unlocking the top tier bonuses for a mech requires first unlocking the bottom tier on three variants of that mech. I'd suggest picking up the Spider 5K (one of the few mechs that can get away with Single Heat Sinks) for sure.

For the third Spider variant, you have a choice. The Spider 5V is available for in game currency but is not a great mech by any stretch. Also available is the hero version, the Anansi, but you can only get this one with real world money. What you get for that money is a 30% boost to all CBill and XP earnings on drops using that mech.

EDIT: The Anansi is regularly priced at 2250 MC, meaning you would spend about $13 on it normally. PGI does sales on hero mechs very often, so if you wait until it goes on sale you might be able to get it for about $7, depending on the sale.

Edited by Voivode, 19 February 2015 - 07:54 AM.