76 replies to this topic

[Ace Selin]

Since 80% of CW clan mechs I see are one of Timberwolf, Stormcrow & Hellbringer, and if attacking, field mostly long range weapons which decidedly favour clans (when defending ok crows will have streaks to tear the lights but rest will have long range weapons again), we need to bring these mechs back to the field (i.e. nerf them) or we reduce range or some other facet of clan weapons that give them a clear edge in CW?

When will there be closer parity?

[Bregor Edain]

You see those mechs because the rest is not nearly as good and the pool is a lot smaller than IS. Most people that want to succeed in CW bring the best mechs and they do it in a team. Sure there are some that may be doing well in lesser mechs but they would do better in a better mech.

As for how to counter long range weaponry? You could try not not trade shots at less than optimal range and there is enough cover. When inside the base the range advantage is not really that big of an advantage anymore.

[Khobai]

Quote

When will there be closer parity?

the situation should remedy itself somewhat when clan quirks are added. when the madcat has 0-1 quirks and the gargoyle has 4-5 quirks, like it should be, then youll likely see some parity.

IS mechs were really no different before PPC/JJ balances and quirks. All you saw were cataphracts, victors, and highlanders for a long time. Because poptarting was the meta and those mechs were the best at it.

Edited by Khobai, 19 February 2015 - 01:31 AM.

[Ace Selin]

So the Clan quirks are going to nerf the Timberwolf, Stormcrow, Dire Wolf and Helbringer (negative quirks) and rest of clan mechs will get improvements. Sounds right to me.

[Khobai]

Quote

So the Clan quirks are going to nerf the Timberwolf, Stormcrow, Dire Wolf and Helbringer (negative quirks) and rest of clan mechs will get improvements. Sounds right to me.

doubtful that any of the quirks will be negative. the quirks will likely just make the lesser used clan mechs more appealing.

However I do believe some of the clan energy weapons, specifically the CERML, need to be looked at more closely. IMO there is something very wrong with a 1 ton weapon that does 7 damage. There is a reason every clan mech is boating 4+ CERMLs because the tonnage:damage ratio is absurd compared to every other weapon in the game.

Edited by Khobai, 19 February 2015 - 01:52 AM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

TBR/SCR might need some mobility nerfs, but past that, Idk...

Hellbringer doesnt really need any, its just a decent Clan mech

The rest need to be buffed up some and you will see less TBR/SCR/DWF spam....and DWF are actually kinda rare in CW.

[Keira RAVEN McKenna]

besides... the Crow and the wolf are silly easy to headshot, ESPECIALLY in CW where they mostly stand still and you hit them with your IS ERPPC and Gauss rds. They fall down just fine without cockpits then.

[Jakob Knight]

Bregor Edain, on 18 February 2015 - 11:52 PM, said:

You see those mechs because the rest is not nearly as good and the pool is a lot smaller than IS. Most people that want to succeed in CW bring the best mechs and they do it in a team. Sure there are some that may be doing well in lesser mechs but they would do better in a better mech.

As for how to counter long range weaponry? You could try not not trade shots at less than optimal range and there is enough cover. When inside the base the range advantage is not really that big of an advantage anymore.

The TDR-9S was just nerfed for the exact same reasons, with all the same points raised. That seems to indicate the Clan mechs (at least the ones specifically named here) will need to also be nerfed very soon to bring them down to the same performance levels as an Inner Sphere mech of their tonnage with the same speed, or there will be justified questions as to why Clan mechs can be granted a pass on overperformance when Inner Sphere mechs are not.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 19 February 2015 - 03:27 AM.

[N0MAD]

Ace Selin, on 18 February 2015 - 11:19 PM, said:

Since 80% of CW clan mechs I see are one of Timberwolf, Stormcrow & Hellbringer, and if attacking, field mostly long range weapons which decidedly favour clans

You obviously have no clue..
go and have a look at the amount of IS mechs with +Energy range + specific Laser range Magic Quirks and you will see many, many IS mechs out range clans, not to mention the +range on LRM/SRM/Ballistic magic quirks, if you had done that you wouldnt make the silly comment that Clans out range IS.

[AmunRamen]

N0MAD, on 19 February 2015 - 03:36 AM, said:

You obviously have no clue..
go and have a look at the amount of IS mechs with +Energy range + specific Laser range Magic Quirks and you will see many, many IS mechs out range clans, not to mention the +range on LRM/SRM/Ballistic magic quirks, if you had done that you wouldnt make the silly comment that Clans out range IS.

Nomad makes a good point; playing to your 'Mech's strengths (quirks) you can at least match the clanners.

However, I'm not going to deny that at their basic level - e.g. no quirks, no modules - clan 'Mechs outrange IS Mechs by a lot.

[Clownwarlord]

AGREE, damn straight clanners need to be nerfed into the ground all you get is ECM heavy, or they get the meta mech of the game with the timber wolf. If it isn't one of those then you get the best medium mech to go against as in the storm crow.

[charov]

Have you ever considered the skill difference between a common IS and Clan player? Clan mechs are not very easy to play for a newbie: they're damn hot, they have more firepower but splash it on the target due to the longer beam duration and the different autocannons. However, you see the worst of the IS when you drop in CW: you have no idea how many trial mechs or terrible builds (plenty of Atlases with gauss and full LRM ) you see there. A couple of days ago I saw a King Crab con 2 ppc (or ER LL I don't remember), 2x LRM15 and 6 machineguns!
Probably it depends on the cost: a terrible Clan mech like the Ice Ferret costs like an IS assault mech, that's why lots of newbies/low skilled players are stucked with the IS. They just can't afford Clan mechs.

You have the demostration of how good are IS mechs when a good player handles them (Colburn doing 30kills and 5000+dmg?). Btw, shall we talk about the IS light rush that exploits the bad hitreg? Or about the hordes of ERPPC Tbolts pre quirk changes?

I would pay to see the average ELO of any player in a CW match, really.

Btw, I agree only on one point of the rants against the TW: it tanks too well. PGI should make the CT a bit wider by a 5% or more and see what happens. The stormcrow is not a problem instead, just aim at its weakspots.

Final note: I find the rants against the ECM quite pathetic. The ECM is an hard counter to LRM and a good tool for a minimum of information warfare and can be stopped by a TAG, a PPC or a BAP. It can be definitely annoying but still does not stop your lasers not it stops your autocannons. If you have a problem with the ECM you should really reconsider what you know about this game and how you play it.

[Livewyr]

You don't see my Nova.. because by the time you know about it, you're back in the Dropshop looking at the countdown timer. (Or spectating)

[Gordon Gecko]

Ace Selin, on 18 February 2015 - 11:19 PM, said:

Since 80% of CW clan mechs I see are one of Timberwolf, Stormcrow & Hellbringer, and if attacking, field mostly long range weapons which decidedly favour clans (when defending ok crows will have streaks to tear the lights but rest will have long range weapons again), we need to bring these mechs back to the field (i.e. nerf them) or we reduce range or some other facet of clan weapons that give them a clear edge in CW?

When will there be closer parity?

You are right, clan mechs do have a range advantage. They are at a disadvantage up close in a brawl so push it good. Direct some of your frustration at the nerfing of the TDR-9S. The only really great long range IS mech to beat down clan mechs.

Not a lot of clan mechs out there are good for CW, hence limited Drop Decks. IS has the variety advantage.

My unit switches Clan/IS contracts and we are always able to beat clan groups. Its not the mechs bro.

clownwarlord, on 19 February 2015 - 04:15 AM, said:

AGREE, damn straight clanners need to be nerfed into the ground all you get is ECM heavy, or they get the meta mech of the game with the timber wolf. If it isn't one of those then you get the best medium mech to go against as in the storm crow.

Worry more about PGI unquirking your good IS mechs. RIP TDR-9S

[Bregor Edain]

Jakob Knight, on 19 February 2015 - 03:26 AM, said:

The TDR-9S was just nerfed for the exact same reasons, with all the same points raised. That seems to indicate the Clan mechs (at least the ones specifically named here) will need to also be nerfed very soon to bring them down to the same performance levels as an Inner Sphere mech of their tonnage with the same speed, or there will be justified questions as to why Clan mechs can be granted a pass on overperformance when Inner Sphere mechs are not.

The T-bolt was able to spam 3 PPC's (not per see apha'd) all day long on most maps in CW, you will not see a Clan mech do the same with simular loadout due to heat. Inner Sphere mechs still hold the advantage within 3-400 meter where most fights revolve around. If they where to nerf Clan weapons range wise they would need to reduce heat generated.

[CrushLibs]

For one thing a DW is hardly ever used since its slow , huge CT , and you end up putting two crappy lights on your drop list to meet the 240 ton requirement.

TW was nerfed and most run pretty damn hot , 4 med pulse pushes heat to 40%+ on the S. Loosing 5 tons of DHS/ammo via fixed JJs nerfed the TW plenty.

Streaks are worthless against anything but lights and have a short range. SC is the only mech that's viable that can do decent speed for its size,, the Adder runs extremely hot , KF is decent but has paper armor and both are SLOW at 107 kph.

Come on IS whiners the Dragon 1N is a 107 kph heavy with a AC5 machine gun dealing out 10 dmg every 1/2 sec. and never overheats. IS has 3 times the mechs to choose from , has MUCHO speed advantage due to unfixed engines , endo , and armor.

I don't run alot of laser vomit but I would bet Clanners would love to have less heat , shorter burn times and be able to shoot 3 large lasers at a time with no ghost heat for a small reduction in range. If that happens I will rebuild my 8 ERL DW that was nerfed out of existence and listen to the crys of IS mechs as I leg them at distance.

Edited by CrushLibs, 19 February 2015 - 06:05 AM.

[Strykewolf]

Am, nearly exclusively, an IS player. I drop solo in CW, and, with 12-mans.

I run a Battlemaster, 2 Quickdraws, 1 Firestarter...most of the time.

Pug n pug...clanners die just fine, team on team...clanners die just fine. Pug on team, pug has the short end of the stick most times. Has more to do with effective command and control, coordinated fire and, being used to working with each other than it does with the mechs.

Considering the costs of the various clan mechs, many of the players that have them have played for some time.

[Basilisk222]

Ace Selin, on 18 February 2015 - 11:19 PM, said:

Since 80% of CW clan mechs I see are one of Timberwolf, Stormcrow & Hellbringer, and if attacking, field mostly long range weapons which decidedly favour clans (when defending ok crows will have streaks to tear the lights but rest will have long range weapons again), we need to bring these mechs back to the field (i.e. nerf them) or we reduce range or some other facet of clan weapons that give them a clear edge in CW?

When will there be closer parity?

We'd like to stop using the same 3 mechs too. There's not a lot of choice though.

I'd like to stop seeing the firestarter, the King Crab and the Thunderbolt in 70% of players' dropdecks.

People use they best they got for CW, There's no question the TBR and the hellbringer are great choices, the stormcrow is better hitboxed and kitted than the Ice Ferret, and more versatile than the Nova.

What in the pup do you want us to pick? If we could run IS mechs, I think some of us would actually. But we can't. You can't expect diversity with a tiny roster.

(I run an Adder, a Timberwolf, a Maddog and a Mist Lynx and I'm likely to swap one of them for a Hellbringer.)

Edited by Kilgorin Strom, 19 February 2015 - 06:12 AM.

[Necromantion]

Im going to use a post here from another one of the "qq clans are so op" threads that came up yesterday.

The only reason clans have had the success that they have experienced is due to the majority of the comp teams spending the most of their time as clans. Mass gains on the clan fronts have for the majority been made when large Merc alliances swap to their clan time periods throwing their weight there. It has NOTHING to do with clan tech being vastly superior, the only time that clan tech was vastly superior was the first few weeks of its inception prior to tweaking that nerfed it to a more reasonable level that was then matched by IS quirks.

Now regarding your OP, how about the 3 Thunderbolt 1 Firestarter decks that dominated for weeks and probably still will even post 9S nerf? I have played what I would consider to be a fairly modest amount of CW matches on both factions (50/50 IS/Clan from the beginning of CW) and all I see from IS matches are Thunderbolts, Jagermechs, Firestarters for the most part with a smattering of ravens, stalkers, jenners and the occasional atlas, catapult, cataphract, banshee or battlemaster.

On the flipside for clans you mostly see Stormcrows, Timberwolves with a smattering of Hellbringers, Mist lynx/Ice ferrets (to balance deck weights) and the occasional Direwolf, Warhawk or Mad dog.

Proportionally the representation of other Clan mechs are lower than Stormcrows and Timberwolves because things like the Summoner, Ice ferret, Adder, Nova, Kit fox and the like are all vastly inferior to the majority if IS and Clan mechs.

Yes stromcrows have a nice geometry indeed that with torso twisting can spread a LOT of damage out, however its CT is extremely vulnerable and when they start to peek over terrain their CT is exposed before the pilot can see due to the cockpit location, the same can be said for the side torsos of the Timberwolf.

Once again there are advantages to each faction and I really dont feel like listing them all but clans do not get full marks for every weapon or chassis by a good margin. IS quirks have facilitated IS mechs to reach out to the same or close to the same ranges. Also so what if a Clan ERLLas can touch you at 1400m? It is doing nearly no damage, the strong Clan weapons are beam weapons which requires them to stay exposed to use them until the beam duration is done and have no beam quirks. On the flipside IS reduced beam time, single round AC weapons and the like allow you to use cover more effectively. So my suggestion would be to make use of cover better and learn to trade better with the little to no burn time IS weapons.

Unless youve played a good amount of time on both faction in CW then I am more than skeptical of anyone's post claiming IS or Clan are better.

Frankly this is just another whining post from a player who doesn't know how to optimize builds and alter playstyle to make the most use of the quirks, weapons and hardpoints on their chassis' or who just refuses to and wants the game to conform to them.

Edited by Necromantion, 19 February 2015 - 08:09 AM.

[HARDKOR]

Biggest inherent clan advantage, IMHO, is that they don't have a lot of viable mechs, and the ones that are viable all run the same config and run at the same speed +/- 10 kph. This means that any group you put together is already optimized to some extent, where the IS groups actually need coordination to make a cohesive team. Teamwork is OP and the first step of teamwork has already been done for the clan mechs. A team with mechs ranging from 170-60 kph is tough to manage and requires real teamwork, whereas a team running 90-109 is going to form a near deathball with no leadership.