Zalman... that's a name I haven't heard in a long long time. Is it one of the gigantic nearly all-copper ones? Or one of the smaller copper+aluminum ones? I'm assuming dust-free and with a perfectly working fan? Still, I'm not sure if it's really capable of properly dissipating the heat from a Haswell chip that is being OCed. 1.26v sounds fine. My 5820K is set at like 1.275v or 1.28v for 4.5GhZ. Might want to check out a few 4790K reviews to see what voltages they were using to achieve their clocks, I'm not sure how Haswell might be different from Haswell-E in that regard.
4
I Finally Pulled The Trigger On The New Intel Z97 Build With A I7 4790K Processor Guys.
Started by Bill Lumbar, Feb 19 2015 01:51 PM
141 replies to this topic
#42
Posted 22 February 2015 - 11:11 AM
I will upload some pics.... it is a 6 copper pipe, aluminum fins, copper base, and the revised one with a solid copper base, not the one with the pipes exposed and leaving gaps. Its not the best Air cooler....but I have ran it on my Q9550, and my FX-8350 and a Phenom II 960T and it has performed well with all of them, including the Q9550 OC at 3.8ghz. Working on uploading pics now.... I picked the cooler up at Micro Center about a year ago.
I have looked at the reviews on on toms, and many are saying with out a bios update their 4790K's was defaulting to 1.3 volts and is to much. Many are also saying that even thought the new K's series was designed to drop some heat off the chip, better temps, that most all Haswell's just run hotter then they should.
Cover is off in the last pic.... first page has what it looks like with front cover on the case. This was a rush job for a case mod to get me up and running when I built my new desk onto my wall...the case is getting tore out once my wall mount case is finished. Still waiting on parts, the bad weather here is not helping....
I have looked at the reviews on on toms, and many are saying with out a bios update their 4790K's was defaulting to 1.3 volts and is to much. Many are also saying that even thought the new K's series was designed to drop some heat off the chip, better temps, that most all Haswell's just run hotter then they should.
Cover is off in the last pic.... first page has what it looks like with front cover on the case. This was a rush job for a case mod to get me up and running when I built my new desk onto my wall...the case is getting tore out once my wall mount case is finished. Still waiting on parts, the bad weather here is not helping....
Edited by Bill Lumbar, 22 February 2015 - 11:19 AM.
#43
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Posted 22 February 2015 - 11:19 AM
Some haswell chips just get hot, doesn't mean there's something wrong with the cooling.
#44
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Posted 22 February 2015 - 11:22 AM
Haswell (and actually pretty much every Intel CPU from Nehalem up) has been designed in a way that makes it run warmer, so I'm not sure how well comparing the heatsink's performance with those CPUs will fit. It will probably not allow much headroom. Haswell's max therms are in the 90s as far as I know, so if you're hitting 80s while gaming you're probably fine. I just wouldn't push it any farther until you get your loop built.
#45
Posted 22 February 2015 - 11:42 AM
I am floating in the 50C-70ish-very low 80's right now while playing MWO. Obviously as you can see in the pics with the air flow in my modded case its not what I normally go with for cooling and air flow. The stock cooler was really gimped from the start given the air flow in the case...or lack of it from what I normally like to have in a case I build or use. I am gonna hold off on OC the chip till all the loop parts come in. So with my Settings in game I posted, and with some of the numbers from fraps bench mark..... what do you guys think about them?
I have numbers from my FX-build posted in the thread, "lets talk CPU's" and I don't have my SSD hooked up to pull and paste on here right now, but from what I can remember.... yes min numbers are up from the Amd system, I am seeing around a 10 FPS increase on the min's..... but a couple of those fraps runs are into the 30's, which I was hoping I wouldn't see less than 40's or 50's with the new Intel system. Like I said, as for the "smoothness" with the I7 setup vs. the FX-8350, I will wait to give my thoughts on it. First impressions are yes, it is a little "smoother", but at what cost, and is it really worth it, or needed to play MWO? I really haven't ever noticed my FX-8350 killing my game play or making it hard to play the game because of stutters or dips....other then the "normal" dips we all get, but at first glance the I7 does seem to feel a bit smoother in game play.
I have numbers from my FX-build posted in the thread, "lets talk CPU's" and I don't have my SSD hooked up to pull and paste on here right now, but from what I can remember.... yes min numbers are up from the Amd system, I am seeing around a 10 FPS increase on the min's..... but a couple of those fraps runs are into the 30's, which I was hoping I wouldn't see less than 40's or 50's with the new Intel system. Like I said, as for the "smoothness" with the I7 setup vs. the FX-8350, I will wait to give my thoughts on it. First impressions are yes, it is a little "smoother", but at what cost, and is it really worth it, or needed to play MWO? I really haven't ever noticed my FX-8350 killing my game play or making it hard to play the game because of stutters or dips....other then the "normal" dips we all get, but at first glance the I7 does seem to feel a bit smoother in game play.
Edited by Bill Lumbar, 22 February 2015 - 11:43 AM.
#46
Posted 22 February 2015 - 12:27 PM
guys... I just installed Gigabytes easy tuner and ran their tuning software.... I am sitting at 4.7 ghz now, only 1.25 volts and it seems to idle down now with stepping I guess? Turbo core is working and it down clocks to 4.4 when not needing the extra power. My temps look better.. or the same right now.... haven't played any MWO yet...getting ready to at 4.7 ghz and on air. Wish me luck and I hope the CPU doesn't explode or start a fire... 
With the game open and coming back to windows I am at a Idle of only 35-40C vs 45-55C before I ran the tuning software. This looks promising
First game run with the OC.... stayed around 56C-70C, and ranged from 4.5 ghz to 4.7ghz OC with easy tune.
2015-02-22 15:34:42 - MWOClient
Frames: 10074 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 55.967 - Min: 35 - Max: 75 forest snow 4.5-4.7 ghz OC turbo core on?
This is rather odd.... Easy tune has down clocked my ram to 1333 changed the timings to 9-9-9-24 107 clocks trfc and 1T timing... and a 1:5 ratio? wtf?
Ok... so I went into easy tune software, manually set my XMP profile back to 1600mhz, applied it, then rebooted. CPU-Z was showing my processor at 1.25 volts before I made the change back to the ram's default XMP profile. After the reboot the OC still stayed the same on the CPU, 4.5-4.7ghz with turbo core on, but the Cpu volts changed to 1.358? Holly hell man, isn't that way to high? Temps where higher but didn't go crazy.
So I went back into easytune and dialed back the V.Core volts to 1.25 and rebooted again. After getting into windows CPU-z showed the Core voltage was still 1.35 for a brief second, then switched to 1.25 and has stayed there so far. My ram is now at the current timings...
Dram Frequency....799.9 mhz
ratio: FSB: DRAM.... 1:6
9-9-9-27 tRFC at 128 clocks and 1T command rate. This sound about right, or is something off? I re did Windows system score and ram came back up to a 7.9 with these settings, vs. the 7.8 they was before. CPU is still at 7.8 even with the OC to 4.5-4.7ghz on the 4790K. Temps seem good and so far no blue screens.
With the game open and coming back to windows I am at a Idle of only 35-40C vs 45-55C before I ran the tuning software. This looks promising
First game run with the OC.... stayed around 56C-70C, and ranged from 4.5 ghz to 4.7ghz OC with easy tune.
2015-02-22 15:34:42 - MWOClient
Frames: 10074 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 55.967 - Min: 35 - Max: 75 forest snow 4.5-4.7 ghz OC turbo core on?
This is rather odd.... Easy tune has down clocked my ram to 1333 changed the timings to 9-9-9-24 107 clocks trfc and 1T timing... and a 1:5 ratio? wtf?
Ok... so I went into easy tune software, manually set my XMP profile back to 1600mhz, applied it, then rebooted. CPU-Z was showing my processor at 1.25 volts before I made the change back to the ram's default XMP profile. After the reboot the OC still stayed the same on the CPU, 4.5-4.7ghz with turbo core on, but the Cpu volts changed to 1.358? Holly hell man, isn't that way to high? Temps where higher but didn't go crazy.
So I went back into easytune and dialed back the V.Core volts to 1.25 and rebooted again. After getting into windows CPU-z showed the Core voltage was still 1.35 for a brief second, then switched to 1.25 and has stayed there so far. My ram is now at the current timings...
Dram Frequency....799.9 mhz
ratio: FSB: DRAM.... 1:6
9-9-9-27 tRFC at 128 clocks and 1T command rate. This sound about right, or is something off? I re did Windows system score and ram came back up to a 7.9 with these settings, vs. the 7.8 they was before. CPU is still at 7.8 even with the OC to 4.5-4.7ghz on the 4790K. Temps seem good and so far no blue screens.
Edited by Bill Lumbar, 22 February 2015 - 01:27 PM.
#47
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Posted 22 February 2015 - 01:12 PM
Never used it and have no opinion. I do all of my overclocking and adjusting in the BIOS.
Your GPU may finally be the limiting factor. Mins go up, averages and highs stay about the same? Turn something like shading down by one level and see what happens. Probably a boost in averages and highs.
Your GPU may finally be the limiting factor. Mins go up, averages and highs stay about the same? Turn something like shading down by one level and see what happens. Probably a boost in averages and highs.
#48
Posted 22 February 2015 - 01:22 PM
xWiredx, on 22 February 2015 - 01:12 PM, said:
Never used it and have no opinion. I do all of my overclocking and adjusting in the BIOS.
Your GPU may finally be the limiting factor. Mins go up, averages and highs stay about the same? Turn something like shading down by one level and see what happens. Probably a boost in averages and highs.
Your GPU may finally be the limiting factor. Mins go up, averages and highs stay about the same? Turn something like shading down by one level and see what happens. Probably a boost in averages and highs.
Normally I never use OC software either.... but I have heard good things about the easytune software for this mother board. On my 775 gigabyte board I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. I will most likely uninstall it once all the parts for the loop get here and then do all my OC in the bios. Mins have gone up to a point, like I said maybe 10 fps vs my amd system, but there are still some runs within the 30's for mins, but not as many as before that is for sure. High's? Well on my Amd I seen Highs push as much as in the 120's in normal matches, and I still haven't seen those numbers yet for highs with the Intel build yet.
2015-02-22 16:44:12 - MWOClient
Frames: 9438 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 52.433 - Min: 32 - Max: 65 fozen city with OC....and ram at 1600mhz settings still the same.
Fighting was very heavy and intense and a very short match that ended with us winning..... Hmmmm
Edited by Bill Lumbar, 22 February 2015 - 01:53 PM.
#49
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Posted 22 February 2015 - 03:19 PM
If your maxes are that much less, you're doing something differently/wrong or there is something different/wrong with something that needs to be fixed. I didn't bother reading all of the garbage starting from halfway through page 1 for kind of obvious reasons, so you may need to point out differences you've already mentioned again (read that I'm not going to try to sift through the thread crapping).
#50
Posted 22 February 2015 - 03:57 PM
All of the crap is gone... flap reported me for cursing, Mods came in and deleted off the crap. Nothing has changed other then I have used the OC software from Gigabyte to OC to 4.5-4.7ghz and my ram settings have changed as listed. In bios I first used Xmp to set ram to listed specs from Kingston and I used the easy tuner. I will look into the bios to see if anything has been changed by the easy tuner software.
I am way behind on getting the points for the free champ, I am gonna play some games and run benches in them and see what the avg is with the runs. Maybe the last one was just a fluke?
I am way behind on getting the points for the free champ, I am gonna play some games and run benches in them and see what the avg is with the runs. Maybe the last one was just a fluke?
Edited by Bill Lumbar, 22 February 2015 - 04:25 PM.
#51
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Posted 22 February 2015 - 04:30 PM
I only said reported because I thought it matched nicely with the "repent." thing. I didn't actually do it.
Anyway, with 2560x1440 the max fps is probably gpu limited.
Anyway, with 2560x1440 the max fps is probably gpu limited.
#52
Posted 22 February 2015 - 04:44 PM
Yeah I am sure that the max fps is going to be a factor with my 1440P set up, and as long as they hit around 70+ I could care less at this point.... I am more interested in the mins and trying to beat out the FX system by more than 5-10% I just pulled out of my rig, and the fact that I spent $453 on the new I7 build vs. $269 a year ago on the FX cpu and mother board combo. The cost of this upgrade doesn't account for the obvious that if one is gonna OC this I7 4670K, just like AMD FX series and Intel Haswell, they will need to dump some money into a better cooling system.
As I said before, I wanna play around with this till the water loop parts get here, new lines, tank, water block, fittings.... I want to see what I can get with it on air right now and with the cooler I have should do a decent job of keeping the I7 some what in the "just OK" range IMO. I didn't spend the extra cash on getting new ram right now, and figured I would try the kingston ram I already have around. Maybe it is a hold back on the new system, Idk.... To soon to make draw a conclusion and I have never messed with OC a Hasewell chip before, so its gonna be a learning experience with lots of room for improvement on my end regarding experience and knowledge.
I really want to hold out for the new graphics cards coming out... but as I said before, that XFX 290X 4 gb and 8 gb is still on sale, and it was really hard not to pull the trigger on one of them for the new build.
2015-02-22 19:48:35 - MWOClient
Frames: 11659 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 64.772 - Min: 41 - Max: 78 Alpine peeks conquest run
2015-02-22 20:12:40 - MWOClient
Frames: 12830 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 71.278 - Min: 39 - Max: 87 caustic valley bumped oc up on 7990 to 1050/1500 and turned all settings to Very high, except particles is on medium because of my Locust PB mg's flash.
2015-02-22 20:47:06 - MWOClient
Frames: 12432 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 69.067 - Min: 31 - Max: 90 Caustic valley
As I said before, I wanna play around with this till the water loop parts get here, new lines, tank, water block, fittings.... I want to see what I can get with it on air right now and with the cooler I have should do a decent job of keeping the I7 some what in the "just OK" range IMO. I didn't spend the extra cash on getting new ram right now, and figured I would try the kingston ram I already have around. Maybe it is a hold back on the new system, Idk.... To soon to make draw a conclusion and I have never messed with OC a Hasewell chip before, so its gonna be a learning experience with lots of room for improvement on my end regarding experience and knowledge.
I really want to hold out for the new graphics cards coming out... but as I said before, that XFX 290X 4 gb and 8 gb is still on sale, and it was really hard not to pull the trigger on one of them for the new build.
2015-02-22 19:48:35 - MWOClient
Frames: 11659 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 64.772 - Min: 41 - Max: 78 Alpine peeks conquest run
2015-02-22 20:12:40 - MWOClient
Frames: 12830 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 71.278 - Min: 39 - Max: 87 caustic valley bumped oc up on 7990 to 1050/1500 and turned all settings to Very high, except particles is on medium because of my Locust PB mg's flash.
2015-02-22 20:47:06 - MWOClient
Frames: 12432 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 69.067 - Min: 31 - Max: 90 Caustic valley
Edited by Bill Lumbar, 22 February 2015 - 05:54 PM.
#53
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Posted 22 February 2015 - 06:12 PM
These most recent numbers look substantially better than the numbers I just saw from your thread on the new monitor. Mins are 5-20% better and averages are 5-15% better at least. Time for a new GPU when the next parade of them comes out eh? So cooler+better OC+new GPU=happy Bill.
#54
Posted 22 February 2015 - 06:48 PM
2015-02-22 21:13:39 - MWOClient
Frames: 9865 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 54.806 - Min: 32 - Max: 69 River city night
2015-02-22 21:18:27 - MWOClient
Frames: 10410 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 57.833 - Min: 34 - Max: 102
Here are two more runs....
As for the numbers looking better.... I will access my other ssd drive as soon as I get the FX back up and running, and will make a compare post or add to this one that will put them side by side. The whole point of this upgrade was to see just what the real difference in going with the Intel line up is vs. the FX-8350.
As for if the Intel is really smoother in game play enough to notice or make a difference, I am not gonna say yet. I want to get this system tweaked out, OC to the max with the new water loop, and get the OS on my samsung SSD. So far with things set up rather half assed on this new build IMO, I am not seeing some unreal difference in smoothness in game play with MWO. That doesn't mean it won't happen once everything is all setup and tweaked, but not seeing anything that makes my FX-8350 build unplayable, or a lesser experience with MWO.
Sure the numbers do look somewhat better, and the Intel rig is not "perfect" yet.... I do see potential for sure with it, but the question in the end that will be answered for me is this, is it worth the extra cost to go with the Intel setup of this price point? I am sure if I blow another $300-600 on a new GPU to pair up with this rig, it may very well turn out that I will see much better performance than if I stick with the FX-8350 in this game at 1440P. Right now I am working on selling some of my other gaming rigs so I can justify this purchase, before I drop that extra $300-600 on a new GPU. The 7970 is a great card, but it may very well be the limit factor if I want to get 50-60+ fps in this game now. It would really kinda suck if I purchase the new card, and find that the FX can still hang with the Intel rig regarding FPS with a 290X or if I wait till the new ATI cards drop, or even try Nvidia and really switch to the dark side completely.
Frames: 9865 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 54.806 - Min: 32 - Max: 69 River city night
2015-02-22 21:18:27 - MWOClient
Frames: 10410 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 57.833 - Min: 34 - Max: 102
Here are two more runs....
As for the numbers looking better.... I will access my other ssd drive as soon as I get the FX back up and running, and will make a compare post or add to this one that will put them side by side. The whole point of this upgrade was to see just what the real difference in going with the Intel line up is vs. the FX-8350.
As for if the Intel is really smoother in game play enough to notice or make a difference, I am not gonna say yet. I want to get this system tweaked out, OC to the max with the new water loop, and get the OS on my samsung SSD. So far with things set up rather half assed on this new build IMO, I am not seeing some unreal difference in smoothness in game play with MWO. That doesn't mean it won't happen once everything is all setup and tweaked, but not seeing anything that makes my FX-8350 build unplayable, or a lesser experience with MWO.
Sure the numbers do look somewhat better, and the Intel rig is not "perfect" yet.... I do see potential for sure with it, but the question in the end that will be answered for me is this, is it worth the extra cost to go with the Intel setup of this price point? I am sure if I blow another $300-600 on a new GPU to pair up with this rig, it may very well turn out that I will see much better performance than if I stick with the FX-8350 in this game at 1440P. Right now I am working on selling some of my other gaming rigs so I can justify this purchase, before I drop that extra $300-600 on a new GPU. The 7970 is a great card, but it may very well be the limit factor if I want to get 50-60+ fps in this game now. It would really kinda suck if I purchase the new card, and find that the FX can still hang with the Intel rig regarding FPS with a 290X or if I wait till the new ATI cards drop, or even try Nvidia and really switch to the dark side completely.
#55
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Posted 22 February 2015 - 07:11 PM
Bill Lumbar, on 21 February 2015 - 11:50 AM, said:
Right now I have over 190 updates from windows to do.. and I need to get the killer 2200 up and running. Windows shows it as being connected to the internet and I have I4 connectivity but I6 shows up in properties as not connected. When I plug in my land land, my asus Wifi goes out so I am guessing there is a issue with the Killer network manager for some reason. Very frustrating.
Regarding the Killer 2200... In case you did not know...
Only install the drivers to make window recognise the NIC.
Do NOT ! I repeat Do Not enable the Bandwidth management/QOS features of that NIC.
It is buggy scrap and will lead to unexpected high latency issues......
By default it should be off I believe.
Question: How do you run that MWO benchmark ? I think this may have been answered before..
Edited by ShinVector, 22 February 2015 - 07:13 PM.
#56
Posted 22 February 2015 - 07:13 PM
2015-02-22 21:18:27 - MWOClient
Frames: 10410 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 57.833 - Min: 34 - Max: 102
2015-02-22 21:54:11 - MWOClient
Frames: 11673 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 64.850 - Min: 51 - Max: 81 Forest colony
And on a side note.... just had the worst (because we lost, last man standing trying to take out three remaining mechs, Cent(had him down to 32%), maddog(92%) and a thunderbolt(? lol.) and one of the best matches ever in one of my Locust! I screwed up.... I should of spread them out more, I let them come to the tunnel entrance on our side once the the thunderbolt found me, the cent followed and the Maddog came too to get some Locust love.
Frames: 10410 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 57.833 - Min: 34 - Max: 102
2015-02-22 21:54:11 - MWOClient
Frames: 11673 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 64.850 - Min: 51 - Max: 81 Forest colony
And on a side note.... just had the worst (because we lost, last man standing trying to take out three remaining mechs, Cent(had him down to 32%), maddog(92%) and a thunderbolt(? lol.) and one of the best matches ever in one of my Locust! I screwed up.... I should of spread them out more, I let them come to the tunnel entrance on our side once the the thunderbolt found me, the cent followed and the Maddog came too to get some Locust love.
#57
Posted 22 February 2015 - 07:21 PM
ShinVector, on 22 February 2015 - 07:11 PM, said:
Regarding the Killer 2200... In case you did not know...
Only install the drivers to make window recognise the NIC.
Do NOT ! I repeat Do Not enable the Bandwidth management/QOS features of that NIC.
It is buggy scrap and will lead to unexpected high latency issues......
By default it should be off I believe.
Question: How do you run that MWO benchmark ? I think this may have been answered before..
I had the drivers installed for the killer 2200 when I first installed Windows 10.... It seen my network, claimed I had a internet connection, but when I tried to go to a webpage it would time out and say I didn't have a connection. The driver and software management is all in one, so you have to install it with the driver. What ever caused Windows 10 to freeze up on me and stop responding may very well be the driver for the killer 2200. When I went into the device manager it showed that I had I4 connectivity but no connectivity for I6. I uninstalled Windows 10 and after tried it since the freeze ups. I could still move my mouse, but couldn't click on things. I am really kinda pissed about the Killer Lan and still have not been able to get it working. I am on a Asus Wifi N-15 card right now... not happy about it.
As for the fraps bench marks, download fraps for free, if you buy it you get way more options. I have the paid version.
#58
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Posted 22 February 2015 - 07:38 PM
Bill Lumbar, on 22 February 2015 - 07:21 PM, said:
I had the drivers installed for the killer 2200 when I first installed Windows 10.... It seen my network, claimed I had a internet connection, but when I tried to go to a webpage it would time out and say I didn't have a connection. The driver and software management is all in one, so you have to install it with the driver. What ever caused Windows 10 to freeze up on me and stop responding may very well be the driver for the killer 2200. When I went into the device manager it showed that I had I4 connectivity but no connectivity for I6. I uninstalled Windows 10 and after tried it since the freeze ups. I could still move my mouse, but couldn't click on things. I am really kinda pissed about the Killer Lan and still have not been able to get it working. I am on a Asus Wifi N-15 card right now... not happy about it.
As for the fraps bench marks, download fraps for free, if you buy it you get way more options. I have the paid version.
As for the fraps bench marks, download fraps for free, if you buy it you get way more options. I have the paid version.
This is an interesting read...
But turning the killer NIC into a generic Qualcomm one eh ? Hmmm...
I am on Win 8.1 Pro can't remember where I got my drivers. But I not facing and issues right now so, might I will probably leave it as that.
http://www.techpower...-ar8161.198899/
So.. It fraps giving the stats ? Ahh... I have it though but since haven't used since Shadowplay made it obsolete.
Edited by ShinVector, 22 February 2015 - 07:39 PM.
#59
Posted 22 February 2015 - 07:46 PM
Ummm yeah... I found a site that tells you how to turn the killer into what it really is and the normal driver that supports it. I have to try that yet. thanks for the other link, I just haven't take the time to do it yet. I m way behind on the points I only have 12 and really want that champ Raven. I have never played them before.
Yep, turn fraps on and hit f-11 in game, I use change the capture time to 180 seconds vs 60 seconds and click the end frame test box. It might not let you change the settings if you don't have the paid version. The stats will be in you fraps file under fraps logs/benchmarks. Copy and past them here.
Yep, turn fraps on and hit f-11 in game, I use change the capture time to 180 seconds vs 60 seconds and click the end frame test box. It might not let you change the settings if you don't have the paid version. The stats will be in you fraps file under fraps logs/benchmarks. Copy and past them here.
#60
Posted 22 February 2015 - 09:01 PM
Problem with the killer 2200 is solved.... followed guide and have Internet with lan now. Lets see if I have any problems. I have been booted mid game three times today.... anyone else having this issue? Game just crashes..have to restart.
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