251 replies to this topic

[Votanin FleshRender]

Short answer. Absolutely.

I am still stunned at the amount of whiny ******* the last time they tried this in the group Q. I loathe conquest, but I'll play it occasionally if it means better games, or even just a CHANCE at better games.

[PappySmurf]

Well Zeece you run back and tell RUSS this (PC MechWarrior games had it right with there Match Maker system) The current matchmaking and ELO are total junk I know I have played it for 3 years off and on and it needs to go BYE BYE. There is no ELO that works I have seen noob players me included on a new account in with 3 year vets that wipe the floor with everyone.

So how is that competitive and fun? Answer is it is not. I liked it better when we had a true lobby launcher system like the (MSN GAMMING ZONE WAS) and could play for free with friends and family being able to choose a map and game mode then a saved MECHLAB CONFIGURATION THEN LAUNCH THE GAME.

MWO is like 1/10 the fun the older PC MechWarrior games were and MWO has about 1/10 the game options in its matchmaker setup. Just tell RUSS and PGI staff load up a copy of PC MechWarrior 4 play the multiplayer make the private match system like that was and build us a new MSN GAMMING ZONE CLONE to play leagues 1v1-12v12 on again problem solved.

There is nothing salvageable with the current solo MM matchmaker-Private matchmaker- or CW matchmaker it just don't work period for balance.

[Haipyng]

NeoAres, on 20 February 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

Well, whoever said we need more than one gametype anyway? Are there people around literally thirsting for Conquest? Other than that, Assault and Skirmish are, in practice, pretty identical.

Lots of people like Conquest (it's the only thing worth running lights for) and there is a smaller subset of folks that like Assault. Skirmish is dull to me, just deathmatch over and over with the same tactics. I've been in several matches where a good part of my team was wiped out and I've helped pull off a win with doing the objective (with lots of complaining about being lame for beating them out).

I know alot of people play every mode like skirmish, but if I am running my light I want conquest. If I am running assault I like a long range heavy. For Skirmish, I like mediums. Heck I even prefer certain builds for certain maps. I hate getting my hot laser boat on Mordor...

[Kristov Kerensky]

PappySmurf, on 20 February 2015 - 08:39 AM, said:

Well Zeece you run back and tell RUSS this (PC MechWarrior games had it right with there Match Maker system) The current matchmaking and ELO are total junk I know I have played it for 3 years off and on and it needs to go BYE BYE. There is no ELO that works I have seen noob players me included on a new account in with 3 year vets that wipe the floor with everyone.

So how is that competitive and fun? Answer is it is not. I liked it better when we had a true lobby launcher system like the (MSN GAMMING ZONE WAS) and could play for free with friends and family being able to choose a map and game mode then a saved MECHLAB CONFIGURATION THEN LAUNCH THE GAME.

MWO is like 1/10 the fun the older PC MechWarrior games were and MWO has about 1/10 the game options in its matchmaker setup. Just tell RUSS and PGI staff load up a copy of PC MechWarrior 4 play the multiplayer make the private match system like that was and build us a new MSN GAMMING ZONE CLONE to play leagues 1v1-12v12 on again problem solved.

There is nothing salvageable with the current solo MM matchmaker-Private matchmaker- or CW matchmaker it just don't work period for balance.

^^^
What he said

[cSand]

No matter what you do for MM, bad players gonna whine about losing

then they're gonna blame their losses on the system or other players instead of their own badness.

We tried it already, and put everyone in one matchmaking pool. Guess what happened? People still bitched and moaned about the MM, their team, and additionally about not being able to choose what mode to play.

Basically, the bad players still kept on sucking, and still kept blaming everything else but their own suckage for that

So since they're gonna whine either way, I'll take free choice of what mode I play

Edited by cSand, 20 February 2015 - 09:33 AM.

[NeoAres]

Haipyng, on 20 February 2015 - 08:39 AM, said:

Lots of people like Conquest (it's the only thing worth running lights for) and there is a smaller subset of folks that like Assault. Skirmish is dull to me, just deathmatch over and over with the same tactics. I've been in several matches where a good part of my team was wiped out and I've helped pull off a win with doing the objective (with lots of complaining about being lame for beating them out).

I know alot of people play every mode like skirmish, but if I am running my light I want conquest. If I am running assault I like a long range heavy. For Skirmish, I like mediums. Heck I even prefer certain builds for certain maps. I hate getting my hot laser boat on Mordor...

I like conquest too. That being said, correct me if I'm wrong that exclusion of conquest gametype is the #1 "choice" players exercise. I for one would be willing to sacrifice it if it meant that ELO would be improved.

I also wouldn't mind it if, rather than a strict 3/3/3/3 mech weight system, there was instead a total tonnage range, similar to what single players deal with in CW. If total team tonnage was set between 700-740 tons for a 12v12 game (achieved by taking the average tonnage: 60, multiplying it by 12: 720, and applying 20 tons room for error in either direction from that number to facilitate matchup speed), i think it'd take some of the wait time off the medium- and heavy-class users that are often left waiting for a long time for a match and take pressure off the light queue which is where most of the ELO issues occur. As an added bonus, it'd take away some of the free statistical advantage of taking a mech at the high end of its weight class.

Edited by NeoAres, 20 February 2015 - 09:51 AM.

[PappySmurf]

cSand [No matter what you do for MM, bad players gonna whine about losing

then they're gonna blame their losses on the system or other players instead of their own badness.

We tried it already, and put everyone in one matchmaking pool. Guess what happened? People still bitched and moaned about the MM, their team, and additionally about not being able to choose what mode to play.

Basically, the bad players still kept on sucking, and still kept blaming everything else but their own suckage for that

So since they're gonna whine either way, I'll take free choice of what mode I play ]
=============================================================================




Wait wait wait lets back up here pal the MWO MM never worked it never segregated the players in a way that was ever balanced .Back in Closed beta before ELO it was better it was skill/setup vs skill/setup and I did not hear all the crying because there was not a ELO to blame and players knew if you died a lot it was you not the matchmaker.

When PGI introduced the ELO Matchmaker no one wanted it but it was thrown down everyone's throat like it or not. That's when all the crying began and it has only become worse over time.Like I said it would have been much better if the devs and staff would have made a new MSN Gamming Zone with live chat and lobby launchers like we had in MechWarrior4.

When it was running with over a million players 24/7 7 days a week with 20+ leagues and hundreds of open games players knew if you went into a open 1v1-12v12 match and got your asss handed to you it was because you needed to gain more skills or have a better mech configuration in mechlab.Or if you chose to play in a true competitive league you had better be on the ball and top of your game or you got your asss beat bad.

MWO matchmaking is nothing more than a lame 12v12 FFA=Free For ALL that you cannot have any control over except to picking a mech and loadout and doing the same battles over and over with no chance to even pick what group or team to play it just sucks plain and simple.

Exleast the older PC games you could group with friends and family for FREE and decide who you wanted to play for FUN or in a COMPETIVE way. MWO=LAME AS HECK compared to allthe options you hadein the older PC MechWarrior games.

Edited by PappySmurf, 20 February 2015 - 09:54 AM.

[ThrashInc]

The current matchmaker, ELO or otherwise, rarely creates competitive matches as it is. Group queue is a more notorious candidate for this, but that might be because of a smaller pool of players.

Regardless, solo queue is also very rarely competitive. It is more likely your team will be gg closed than gg, close.

If the discussion and its merits are based on upon adding in more options at the risk of creating less competitive matches, then please add more options (maps, etc) because I doubt the aforementioned elements will change at all as a result.

[Ultimax]

Solo
Maps = less choice for better matches
Mode = more choice because I saw zero improvement and average elo spread isn't what's problematic here

Group
Less choice for more competitive is fine, elo spread is larger and teams should be ready fo anything



Both of these come with the caveat that if many players are avoiding a specific mode, then that mode needs to be reviewed.

[Galenit]

Zeece, on 20 February 2015 - 07:51 AM, said:

Do you want the most Competitive(closet ELO) Matches but at the cost that you can no longer choose maps or modes?

Close ELO brings fun in the matches, but they need to reduce the starter ELO, its not fun for everyone if new players are put in the middle elo.

Choosing maps would made some maps near obsolente and remove the need of building balanced mechs.

BUT

A stock queue would bring fun, but it would also divide the playerpool from 2 up to 3 (4) modes.

[blood4blood]

I want options. I like that we can select game types, I'd like a similar feature for maps and group size - the group sizes I'd want to see as options would be 6v6, 8v8, and 12v12, available for both group and solo queues. If you check all the boxes, it'd be totally random, if you uncheck them down to a specific map, game type, and group size, then that's all you'd get, but you may have to wait a while as a result.

I have to agree with what Pappy said above as well - I understand MWO doesn't work like MW4 as far as being able to host your own games and all, but it would be really nice to have a good chat lobby and be able to fully pre-select your group and your opponents then drop in a group size of your choice, game type of your choice, and map of your choice - and it shouldn't require premium time, as stuff like this is the foundation for matchmaking in pretty much every e-sports game I've ever heard of (how can you have a championship if all the competitions are random? Makes no sense.) Rumor has it MWO wants to be an e-sport when it grows up, yeah?

PS I don't think Elo works worth a damn. I'd turn it off.

PPS The ability to choose opponents is the best guarantee of good, competitive matches.

Edited by blood4blood, 20 February 2015 - 10:20 AM.

[ThrashInc]

GundamStompyRobotChurchy, on 20 February 2015 - 10:02 AM, said:

The current matchmaker, ELO or otherwise, rarely creates competitive matches as it is. Group queue is a more notorious candidate for this, but that might be because of a smaller pool of players.

Regardless, solo queue is also very rarely competitive. It is more likely your team will be gg closed than gg, close.

If the discussion and its merits are based on upon adding in more options at the risk of creating less competitive matches, then please add more options (maps, etc) because I doubt the aforementioned elements will change at all as a result.

As an addendum, I would also suggest that Russ look into removing 2-man drops from the group queue.

[cSand]

GundamStompyRobotChurchy, on 20 February 2015 - 10:14 AM, said:

As an addendum, I would also suggest that Russ look into removing 2-man drops from the group queue.

**** no man

especially now with comms in game.

Group queue is where the fun is at. I play probably 90% of my games as a 2 man and wouldn't change a thing

[Weeny Machine]

The True Space Pope, on 20 February 2015 - 08:04 AM, said:

The Space Pope would rather not have the game/matchmaker try to make "fair matches" beyond trying to balance tonnage or BV.

ELO is mostly annoying and in the end it still doesn't save players from seeing completely lopsided matches.

I really second this. Trial runs could be made on...
1. Balancing according to overall tonnage
2. Balancing according to combat values (there are several value system in the TT rule books)

The latter methid would also make it easier to balance Clan tech -IF- more mechs on IS side or on the enemy team side are allowed

The ELO system doesn't really work (most likely due to the low playerbase). So many matches you roll or get rolled with nothing in-between

Edited by Bush Hopper, 20 February 2015 - 10:23 AM.

[cSand]

PappySmurf, on 20 February 2015 - 09:54 AM, said:

cSand [No matter what you do for MM, bad players gonna whine about losing

then they're gonna blame their losses on the system or other players instead of their own badness.

We tried it already, and put everyone in one matchmaking pool. Guess what happened? People still bitched and moaned about the MM, their team, and additionally about not being able to choose what mode to play.

Basically, the bad players still kept on sucking, and still kept blaming everything else but their own suckage for that

So since they're gonna whine either way, I'll take free choice of what mode I play ]
=============================================================================




Wait wait wait lets back up here pal the MWO MM never worked it never segregated the players in a way that was ever balanced .Back in Closed beta before ELO it was better it was skill/setup vs skill/setup and I did not hear all the crying because there was not a ELO to blame and players knew if you died a lot it was you not the matchmaker.

When PGI introduced the ELO Matchmaker no one wanted it but it was thrown down everyone's throat like it or not. That's when all the crying began and it has only become worse over time.Like I said it would have been much better if the devs and staff would have made a new MSN Gamming Zone with live chat and lobby launchers like we had in MechWarrior4.

When it was running with over a million players 24/7 7 days a week with 20+ leagues and hundreds of open games players knew if you went into a open 1v1-12v12 match and got your asss handed to you it was because you needed to gain more skills or have a better mech configuration in mechlab.Or if you chose to play in a true competitive league you had better be on the ball and top of your game or you got your asss beat bad.

MWO matchmaking is nothing more than a lame 12v12 FFA=Free For ALL that you cannot have any control over except to picking a mech and loadout and doing the same battles over and over with no chance to even pick what group or team to play it just sucks plain and simple.

Exleast the older PC games you could group with friends and family for FREE and decide who you wanted to play for FUN or in a COMPETIVE way. MWO=LAME AS HECK compared to allthe options you hadein the older PC MechWarrior games.

I would prefer a ladder system or something as well.

but, we don't have millions of players. I have a feeling that no matter what MM you you will still get an assortment of skill levels in 1 match.


I will tell you what though. People exaggerate, so when you hear stuff like "EVERY MATCH SUCKS" what they mean is they had some crappy matches mixed in with some decent ones.

I honestly think its OK now

[ThrashInc]

@2manqueue: Then an option, because I'd rather not and more than just for myself, there are a lot of people introducing their friends to the game in that manner and it's a pretty awful way to get them started.

Edited by GundamStompyRobotChurchy, 20 February 2015 - 10:22 AM.

[Brody319]

competitive players will do anything and everything they can to get an advantage. so no it doesn't.

Giving players Choice is much better than Good competitive matches because competitive matches will pretty much always end up with the best of the best chassis fighting the best of the best chassis.

[Yokaiko]

cSand, on 20 February 2015 - 10:17 AM, said:

**** no man

especially now with comms in game.

Group queue is where the fun is at. I play probably 90% of my games as a 2 man and wouldn't change a thing

The idea has merit, not the least of which it allows you to drop with newjacks WITHOUT throwing them into the fire, the level of play in the group queue is largely a couple orders of magnitude higher than the solo queue.

[Metus regem]

cSand, on 20 February 2015 - 10:19 AM, said:

I would prefer a ladder system or something as well.

but, we don't have millions of players. I have a feeling that no matter what MM you you will still get an assortment of skill levels in 1 match.


I will tell you what though. People exaggerate, so when you hear stuff like "EVERY MATCH SUCKS" what they mean is they had some crappy matches mixed in with some decent ones.

I honestly think its OK now

It's funny, everytime I get a match with that has someone with [228] or [HHOD] or the like and they are on the Red team, I know I am going to have a bad time.... sometimes though, when it's me against pugs, and I get one under my seights, and I see (c) in the mech type, I kind of feel bad for them, and go find something else to shoot. It would be nice if there was a better way of balancing teams....

[generalazure]

I take whatever finds me a match fastest. Waiting for minutes is even worse than having to play on alpine.