70 replies to this topic

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Mcgral18, on 03 March 2015 - 06:59 AM, said:

Tomorrow, we find out the appearance.

Can't wait!

[the hedgehog]

0bsidion, on 03 March 2015 - 07:32 AM, said:

They usually at minimum do a decent job. The only mech they've done that really disappointed me was the Timber Wolf, it's supposed to be a lean mean killing machine, and instead it looks like it's been subsisting on a steady diet of McDonald's, twinkies, and beer for the last 20 years.

I feel the sameway about the timber and worry and pray that the Jag and shadowcat don't end up with the same deformed models compared to their art.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

the hedgehog, on 03 March 2015 - 07:53 PM, said:

I feel the sameway about the timber and worry and pray that the Jag and shadowcat don't end up with the same deformed models compared to their art.

I never really noticed that the timby looked too much bulkier than the art. I guess I haven't been paying too much attention. Personally I like PGIs models a bit better than old battletech models; maybe I'm the odd man out, but some of the limbs on the old mechs looked too thin to be structurally sound. I guess I'm just OCD about that kinda thing though.

[Greenjulius]

Exciting! I can't wait to see the concept art. The original Shadow Cat already looked fairly modern, in my opinion.



The more I think about it, the more the Shadow Cat is becoming the mech I'm most looking forward to.

[Tuefel Hunden]

June can simply not get here soon enough....

Shadowcat!!!!

[the hedgehog]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 04 March 2015 - 05:59 AM, said:

I never really noticed that the timby looked too much bulkier than the art. I guess I haven't been paying too much attention. Personally I like PGIs models a bit better than old battletech models; maybe I'm the odd man out, but some of the limbs on the old mechs looked too thin to be structurally sound. I guess I'm just OCD about that kinda thing though.

Don't get me wrong I love the models and feel they are much better than the older battletech designs. The timberwolf just has a little too much fat on it than what I would prefer.

[Ultimax]

FupDup, on 20 February 2015 - 02:55 PM, said:

It's basically an Adder with more armor, JJs, ECM, MASC, high-mounted arms (maybe, hopefully), and an extra hardpoint. Probably won't beat the Crow, but it could easily be a good medium.

Should a 45 tonner be designed to "beat the crow"?


A mech can be a good fun addition to the game without being the best, as long as it doesn't have outright weaknesses that are glaring and problematic (I'm look at you Badder, Locust and Mist Lynx) I don't think it needs to "beat the crow".


Taking lower ton mechs to take higher ton mechs is a clear strategy at the team level in CW.

Arctic Cheater + Shadowcat = only 75 tons.

That is a HUGE value for the level of performance these mechs will be capable of.

That leaves you 165 to work with.

Dire Wolf + Hellbringer for example.



Taking it into the solo queue is a borderline non-issue, if my week spent XPing Enforcers and (very sadly) out-damaging or out-killing Dire Wolves can attest to anything, it's this.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 04 March 2015 - 09:54 AM.

[FupDup]

Ultimatum X, on 04 March 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:

Should a 45 tonner be designed to "beat the crow"?

The way I'm interpreting this quote is...



Any medium of any weight beating the Crow would be probably overpowered because the Crow itself is already so amazeballs good, the point of my sentence that you quoted was to say that I don't predict the mech to be at the peaks of Mount Tryhard for performance. Don't make this about "B-b-b-but I have more weight, I should be better" because that misses the point entirely.

Ultimatum X, on 04 March 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:

Taking lower ton mechs to take higher ton mechs is a clear strategy at the team level in CW.

Arctic Cheater + Shadowcat = only 75 tons.

That is a HUGE value for the level of performance these mechs will be capable of.

That leaves you 165 to work with.

Dire Wolf + Hellbringer for example.

I've never cared for silly things like tonnage limits because they basically admit that they can't fix the problem. Similar to the 3/3/3/3 class limits...

[Ultimax]

FupDup, on 04 March 2015 - 10:02 AM, said:

Don't make this about "B-b-b-but I have more weight, I should be better" because that misses the point entirely.

What is the point then?

FupDup, on 04 March 2015 - 10:02 AM, said:

I've never cared for silly things like tonnage limits because they basically admit that they can't fix the problem. Similar to the 3/3/3/3 class limits...

What is the exact problem as you identify it?

[xXBagheeraXx]

Isnt the Prime 1 gauss rifle and 3 er mediums...swap that out for a Uac20....

Anybody know how much tonnage you have for ammo tho?

[Greenjulius]

xXBagheeraXx, on 04 March 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

Isnt the Prime 1 gauss rifle and 3 er mediums...swap that out for a Uac20....

Anybody know how much tonnage you have for ammo tho?

Stock Prime is 1xGauss, 2xER Medium.

You can strip armor down a little and have 16.5 tons to work with. That leaves you with only a few tons of ammo, not really enough to justify the tonnage of the single gauss. Now, if you downgrade to 2-3 ERSL instead, you can potentially bring 3-3.5 tons of ammo, which makes much more sense.

[Ovion]

Remember that it's a small, reasonably fast Medium, so the number of hardpoints and weight aren't that huge a concern.
It also has Jump Jets and ECM access.
Top speed of 97.2 kph (106.9 kph), with a likely increase through MASC.

We get the following hard points and torsos:
Left Arm:
1E
1E
1E, 1M
3B

Right Arm:
1B
1E
1E, 1M
1B

Left Torso:
1AMS
-
1ECM
3B

Right Torso:
1E
1M
-
-
Meaning with ECM, we can have up to:
3E (+ 2M)
3B, 2E (+ 1M)
4B, 1E

And without ECM:
6B, 2E (+ 1M)
7B +1E

That seems fine to me.
Mixes of either medium ballistics and pulse lasers
straight mixes of er/pulse lasers (and srms)
MG boats with Large Pulse Laser(s)
1-2 heavy ballistics
Hell, you could probably even do an LRM variant with twin 15's if you wanted.
And almost all could have ECM.

Edited by Ovion, 04 March 2015 - 10:56 AM.

[KuroNyra]

Ovion, on 04 March 2015 - 10:55 AM, said:

I... Kinda like it.

[Mirumoto Izanami]

Ultimatum X, on 04 March 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:

Taking it into the solo queue is a borderline non-issue, if my week spent XPing Enforcers and (very sadly) out-damaging or out-killing Dire Wolves can attest to anything, it's this.

You enjoyed it and you know it.

[Kain Demos]

the hedgehog, on 03 March 2015 - 07:53 PM, said:

I feel the sameway about the timber and worry and pray that the Jag and shadowcat don't end up with the same deformed models compared to their art.

My main thing with the Timberwolf is the Prime variant. Why did they give HBR-PRIME correct heavy omnipod arms straight from the source material and not the Timberwolf? Hell, even the summoner energy arm is supposed to look like that.

[FupDup]

Ultimatum X, on 04 March 2015 - 10:19 AM, said:

What is the point then?

This is a thread about speculating the performance of a robot, I gave my theory of how I expect it to perform given the information I have access to right now.

Ultimatum X, on 04 March 2015 - 10:19 AM, said:

What is the exact problem as you identify it?

They're trying to stop or at least constrict the spamming of assault/heavy mechs. With the way the game is set up, having a big weight disparity over the other team is a fairly significant advantage that can help decide who wins. A long time ago, this materialized in the form of people stacking almost entire teams with few mediums or lights, if any. Such teams had a pretty high chance of winning (if the gap was large enough, it would be an *almost* guarantee) unless the skill/luck disparity was pretty big.

It basically created a situation where if you didn't take something of at least 65 tons, you were in a sense making your team weaker. Of course the underweighted teams did have some victories, but their probability of winning was lower than if they'd packed in more robo-metal.

[Greenjulius]

I'll happily run a 3xMPL, 2xSRM6+A (2.5tons ammo), ECM, +2 DHS build. Or plain SRM4s for more DHS. I suspect that ECM and potentially smaller size should help it to prove it's worth. As others are saying, probably not MurderCrow caliber, but well worth it, especially for sneaky players.

An alternative would be an excellent light hunter; 3xMPL, 2xSSRM6 (2.5 tons ammo), ECM +1 DHS build. You could drop a ton of ammo or a DHS for CAP, but I'll probably use ECM disrupt mode if I need to knock someone's ECM out.

It may have limited hardpoints, but the 6x jumpjets, ECM and MASC give this mech far more opportunities to shine and be the big brother that the Kitfox always wanted.

Edited by Greenjulius, 04 March 2015 - 12:48 PM.

[Mcgral18]

I had a thought the other day with regards to a timeline jump at some point....Advanced Tactical Missiles came to mind.

The ShadowCat could mount a pair of ATM6s with 5 tons of ammo, ~300 missiles. That's with 3 ERMLs and ECM. Though, one ERML might have to go to TAG if they don't fix that issue until then.

The HE rounds would be pretty nasty, at 3 damage per missile. The normal round is 2 damage with a 120M min range and 450M effective range.

[Ovion]

3060 is a pretty big jump though.
And before that, and before we jump for future weapons, there's still some we don't have yet, that we really should, though that's another topic entirely.

I'm thinking I'll likely do a 6-7MG one, possibly a heavy ballistic one, probably an SRM brawler, aaaand maybe an LRM boat for a giggle.

[Greenjulius]

Ovion, on 08 March 2015 - 04:27 PM, said:

3060 is a pretty big jump though.
And before that, and before we jump for future weapons, there's still some we don't have yet, that we really should, though that's another topic entirely.

I'm thinking I'll likely do a 6-7MG one, possibly a heavy ballistic one, probably an SRM brawler, aaaand maybe an LRM boat for a giggle.

MGs are in such a bad state, that they will have to be paired with something like 2xLPL to make sense. Effectively a super-Arrow. I'd be curious to see if anyone could actually do 7xMGs and get over 200 damage. No ECM, range limited to under 240m, with 120m being effective range...